Mara & Beaumont - Who are they? *spoiler Alert*

Only open if you have completed zones Kingsmouth - Transylvania

This has probably already been discussed - probably many times too.
If it hasn’t - it should have been.
Both characters during their fight scenes say the same dialogue
“You arrogant child!”
“Do you know who i am? What i am?”

Are they the same person?
Are there any other chars that have this same shared dialogue or share their own dialgoue?

Freddy Beaumont
Mara (2)

Spoilers about Mara and Beaumont

They are not the same person.
We learn most of Mara’s history through the lore and missions in Transylvania - she used to be a normal human woman who was Vlad Dracula’s lover. She then got turned into a vampire by Lilith.

We do not know for 100% sure who Beaumont is, but there are some very heavy hints that he is in fact the old Norse god Loki. We do know that he, or at least someone with his name, has been around, and messing with the Illuminati, since at least the 1600s.


For people which have played South Africa, Morninglight ask questions about the true identity of Beaumont. In a PC there is written a thing like that : “This man not to age. Is he immortal ?”

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Why would these two chars share the same lines of text during their “fight scenes”?

That can’t be for no reason surely.

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I also remember during the scene were John asks us to remember these scenes and questions “Did any of this really happen?”

How do we know we weren’t just fighting “embodiment’s” of these figures and that they were indeed the same “thing” Despite the lore of the original people it refers to . . . Shapeshifter?

John also asks if we know Beaumont’s true name. “Gouge out your eyes with mistletoe and I’ll tell you,” he says. In Norse mythology, Loki… well, he uses mistletoe and a blind man to devastating effect.


Interesting indeed!!!

So if Loki is indeed Beaumont, or an “embodiment” of this figure through “Shapeshifting” it IS entirely possible that he is also Mara?!

Loki, a cunning trickster who had the ability to change his shape and s-ex.

Which would explain why the two people share the same dialogue.
Does anyone know if the fight in egypt with Akhenaten having this same dialogue?
According to This . . Akhenaten was “obsessed with mounting a blazing new sun over the sands of Egypt, no matter the cost.” and the previous link says about Loki “Loki is considered a god of fire.”

Perhaps it was the same person who wrote the dialogue for both of them, and he forgot he had already used those lines?
They are pretty standard “bad guy talk” after all. There are LOTS of fictional villains who I could imagine saying something like that.

They aren’t the same person.
At the time we encounter Mara, Beaumont is in Illuminati custody, held at one of their secure facilities.
While I suppose one could create some convoluted theory of how Beaumont/Loki is tricking everyone - including Lilith - it would be extremely farfetched.
I doubt Lilith would have been fooled by anyone else pretending to be Mara, and she certainly would have known something was up when Mara was turned into a vampire which in turn would mean Mara would have needed to get replaced somewhere along the line.

No, while it is theoretically possible (in the same sense that it is theoretically possible that the Sun would rise in the West tomorrow) that Mara and Beaumont are the same person, it is nowhere near plausible.

Occam’s Razor suggests they are not the same person, really. For one, if Mara was the same thing as Beaumont, it would mean Lilith was either in on it from the early days of Solomon Island as it is now (around 1700 or so) or she was unaware of it. And given she’s older than who Beaumont is supposed to be…

Not to mention, to address the connection to the Black Pharaoh, that the sun referenced is the one we see in CotSG. The one whose nature we fully know. And, so far, we’ve failed to see any Dreamer or Dreamer-related thing be half as human-looking as either Beaumont or Mara.

Also, remember: what we know is associated with Loki, may just be memories that became legends, that faded to myths. He may not be able to shapeshift anymore. He may not never have been able to shapeshift. If Beaumont is Loki, which seems very likely, it’s probably something along the lines of Lilith: someone somehow bypassing the flipping of Ages, becoming yet another reflection of themselves. No shapeshifting involved.

As for Mara… I’d think her husband would have reacted to her not being her when he staked her at the end of the Transylvania storyline.

I’m sorry - i just refuse to believe that with all the careful planning that went in to the story that this was an accident or overlooked on the writing part to have two different people - unrelated in any way, share the same dialogue - for no reason.

IF what has been suggested that it is Loki - and given the fact he can change, i don’t see why it isn’t possible - despite what the lore says about the history of the persons we’ve encountered.

Who’s to say that both Cassie and Mara’s husband (at the time we saw them at the fight scenes) were not in fact Lilith also? Even Cassie says something about “What i am about to become” when she takes the sword “It’s not you - it’s me” and delivers lines like Lilith.

Who’s to say we weren’t played and led to kill them for Liliths agenda?
Isn’t the whole story pretty “farfetched” anyway?

I don’t believe they are the same person, but I do like that you’ve put forth the idea. Digging around in something I think is an unlikely connection could turn up something else more likely that had been overlooked before. :legend:

John questioning whether things happened is part of him implying that the entire game could be a dream or illusion that our characters are having. If that’s true, and you assume the source of all the figments we fight is the same (our minds), then technically yes, they’d be the same “person,” though not quite in the way you’re suggesting.

There is a bit of difference between being a god of fire and a sun god, though I’m sure there’s some overlap depending on the source. In the case of Nordic mythology, it looks like Sol/Sunna is the embodiment of the sun, so Loki doesn’t quite line up with Akhenaten.

The link that the three bosses do share, however, is a connection to their local Dreamers. I wouldn’t call them a direct creation,* like the draug, but they each have a strong drive to obtain power from the Dreamers. So you could perhaps argue that they’re strongly linked in the collective unconscious, as mentioned by Jung, and thus pull on similar archetypal phrasings. (Which could arguably be a fancy in-game way to say “they were likely written by the same person, who may be prone to using those quotes for powerful-immortal archetypes.”)

*Barring the idea that the fabric of the world is the Dreamers’ dreams, in which case, it loops back to technically being the same “person,” assuming that it’s one big shared dream.


This makes more sense, so i agree here.

Yeah, I’m not at all convinced tbh. The amount of stuff going on simultaneously is an indicator that they’re different individuals. The power that would be required to keep so many different things going (including travelling back and forth between Solomon Island and Transylvania) wouldn’t seem to mesh with the fact that we are able to defeat them. If they were the same, why would they use different tactics? We know Beaumont’s been in the US for centuries, (he didn’t go back with the Varangian after Darkness Wars,) so why wouldn’t he have a big group of vampire underlings?

I think it’s much more likely that the in combat dialogue lines were done as a late addition, and that it’s just coincidence. It’d be disappointing if with a whole world full of potential antagonists, we then found out that two big characters were actually the same. It makes more sense when they’re behind the scenes, pulling strings like Lilith, but they don’t have anywhere near the same level of power or influence.

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I think i’ve established more the archetype Mel mentioned. Which fits with my feelings of “This is how they are portrayed to us in our minds.” - so it started to make more sense with the train of thought it lead me down.
I must stress that what i am referring to only pertains to the fight scenes - nothing else.
we only encounter these figures only once - in this form.

My thought would be that the climactic battles we have all contain echoes of each other. Currently doing a new playthrough, so I will pay stricter attention. Thanks for bringing up the thought @Rizzle it’s something new for me to look at…

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My memory’s fuzzy on whether we’ve seen anything about them working directly together, but, well.

I can’t remember where to find the explicit indication I feel like I’ve seen, but the sun cults are Lilith’s projects, from the Mayans* to the Morninglight (before Marquard ran off with it). So, given the Mayan presence on Solomon Island, she may have (directly or indirectly) interacted with Beaumont in the distant past.

*Her lore includes the line “She led cults to sun worship.” The Roman Baths have a Sol Invictus mural that’s also found in Sol Glorificus (possibly only during A Time To Every Purpose). I can’t remember where I saw that the Mayan sun cult was also hers.

To extrapolate a bit…Che says Beaumont interacts directly with Marquard. Marquard stole the Morninglight from Lilith. Beaumont knew about the Morninglight’s purpose to awaken and control a Dreamer, and that there was a Gaia Engine on Solomon Island. While Marquard goes after the engine he found, Beaumont (continues) hunting for Excalibur and goes after his own. Perhaps Beaumont planted the idea to steal the Morninglight in Marquard’s head, to distract Lilith while he went after Solomon Island with a smaller group? He may even have gotten the idea to try to gain power from a Dreamer from Lilith, possibly as far back as the Norse interactions with the Mayans, or even before (depending on why they decided or knew to take Excalibur to Solomon Island).

On the other hand, Mara worked directly for Lilith in Translyvania to dig up that engine. Beaumont seemed to want his engine for himself. So again, very different motivations, every indication they are separate individuals–but they do both fit the archetype of “old immortal being who is fighting a much younger immortal being, and is upset at the idea they could be bested by one so young.”

Regarding Cassie’s comment on what she’ll become–her taking Excalibur gives her access to an incredible amount of power, implying that she’s going to try to go from being mortal to becoming a god (or at least joining the ranks of the immortals we know). The Morninglight has records indicating she’s taken it back to Scotland, where the sword was initially found, so…fair indication that she has big plans, too.

Actually, on the subject of…(Kaidan spoilers)

…immortal beings going after Gaia Engines. Daimon Kiyota called dibs on Orochi Tower. Guess what they’ve got in the basement?


I do not understand how confirmation of Beaumont being a specific mythological figure works as evidence that he is also a different, specific Secret World character who also has a known background.

They really need to add those dungeons back. Hopefully the addition of the Penthouse is a sign they are moving in that direction.

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That’s because it doesn’t work as evidence for that. There is no evidence at all that Beaumont is also any of the other named NPCs in the Secret World.