Momentum-based movement - Feedback thread

Larathiel · 2019-12-06T14:55:10.037Z

I voted dislike on the momentum-based movement.

SinisterBlob:

…it actually reminds me of those surreal dreams where you are trying to run from something that is chasing you, but you can’t seem to pick your legs up fast enough no matter how hard you try.

Relieved to know I’m not the only one who has those, and yes this sums up my sentiments quite nicely!

Here are the specific pain points I have:

The initial starting speed feels like I’m standing in tar.
Even when I’m nearly at a standstill, it’s still night impossible to jump off an edge and latch onto it again — something that I feel is as much Conan Exile’s signature move as double-tap dodges are for the Unreal Tournament series or strafe-jumping for Quake.
The build-up speed to a full sprint is far too lengthy. Even out-of-shape, middle-aged me can reach top speed with more finesse than my well-toned, cat-falling character can.
Glancing collisions remove too much momentum. This is particularly evident when trying to move around in your own crafting and living areas. Even when I’ve had too much to drink IRL I’m not as hampered by furniture as my character is.
Farming resources is now pure pain, and not merely because of the sluggish delay when trying to move from node to node. Why? Because not only has an option to disable screen shake not been implemented yet (that’s 7 links, FYI), but with the delay between each swing it’s actually more pronounced as my eyes have a chance to refocus again during the 1/4 second pause that’s been introduced between the backswing and the next forward swing. I can only hope that this was a bug because the delay is completely unrealistic and makes the least enjoyable aspect of the game truly excruciating.
From a purely subjective gaming standpoint, I much prefer crisp, precise movement like in UT (and CE before this patch) to the slippery momentum-based games like Quake (and CE post-patch).

That said, I do think there could be a happy medium. My advice would be:

Nearly instant start & stop for our base movement speed from pre-patch (i.e. where you’re holding forward, but not holding either sprint or walk).
Shorter ramp-up between base speed and running when we press & hold sprint.
Increase air-control somewhat so we can once again grab onto cliffs within 3-4 foundations height if we leap off at a walk, or 5-6 if sprinting.

Some additions I’d love to see that I think would make combat & movement more dynamic:

When sprinting, make the forward roll execute a sort of diving tumble.
When sprinting, make crouch put you into a slide that has a chance for a knockdown vs. a human-sized opponent, or a stagger if they have sufficient agility to resist the knockdown.
If sprinting and a player presses walk, the character should dig in their heels to come to a stop.
Add double-tap dodges similar to what heavy armor used to be. They should use less stamina than a roll, but include no I-frames, and have a shorter settle. (If I can make such a hop when I see a bike headed for me on a walking path, my character should be able to as well.)
If when crouching or holding walk at the top edge of a cliff, add an animation for the character slipping over and entering the climbing pose (for crouch) or hopping off and being an ideal distance to latch-on with walk.

As for the new dodge (which I realize this poll is not about), I’d have preferred to stick with the old one, but it did keep me alive thru the terrifying and exciting new Cimmerian Berserker purge last night, so its not all bad. Still feel a bit slow (at 20 AGI) for a video game though.

Zannia · 2019-12-06T15:03:32.197Z

I gave up on Ark before even trying combat, simply because the movements in that game felt clumsy or bad compared other games I’d played.

This will likely cause some new players to do the same. I’ve even entertained the idea myself.

You can’t just introduce a game element that no other similar games have, if it doesn’t also have an immediate benefit. It’s a gating effect for getting more players. Many will turn around at the gate. The benefits to PvP won’t be worth a damn in that group of players. Try another approach. Like only applying it in combat somehow.

Moving around is a huge element in the game. From node to node. Crafting table to crafting table. Chest to chest. Coming back with loot is gonna be more frustrating. Enjoying creating parts in one crafting station to use at another is gonna be more frustrating. Mining and gathering is gonna be more frustrating. Every. Single. Action. That. Involves. Repeated. Movement. Is. Gonna. Be. More. Frustrating. (Do you see what I did there?)

daveyfiacre · 2019-12-06T15:06:43.305Z

accelleration is fine, but there needs to be a better difference between light and heavy armors. wth accelleration AND the dodge changes, it’s too much in the same direction, and theres less utility to light armors, especially after 20 agility stat points. light armor should still be significantly faster, it already lacks the protection. and the dodge roll difference is so minimal it’s pointless. light armor should retain the previous longer dodge roll, medium armor works best with the new dodge roll, and heavy was fine with the side step, but it’s distance/timing/protection should have been adjusted appropriately. maybe only make backwards a roll and leave the other directions as a step.

it just feels hasty and not adjusted.

but i do think momentum was a good addition, just not implemented well across all armors.

deathstroke255 · 2019-12-06T15:09:38.662Z

I like the concept of the new system but the acceleration phase could use some speed up.

Ely-Anorine · 2019-12-06T15:11:27.838Z

I dislike it, the caracter feels heavy even in a light armor. When we run, we cannot change directions, it’s like we are cars and we need to stop rushing to be sure to not fall of a cliff… Cliff that you can no longer hang on to save your life !
Some people don’t have good computers and fall a lot because of the lags. Please, don’t forget them !

Narelle · 2019-12-06T15:11:50.798Z

daveyfiacre:

accelleration is fine, but there needs to be a better difference between light and heavy armors. wth accelleration AND the dodge changes, it’s too much in the same direction, and theres less utility to light armors, especially after 20 agility stat points.

welcome to the forums. as it appears that your feedback is about the dodge/roll mechanic rather than the run/jump/climb mechanic, you may want to post your feedback here:

POLL => Roll/Dodge Changes General Discussion

By now we have all heard of the coming changes to the Roll/Dodge mechanic. While some are excited for this change, others are troubled by them. It is time to show Funcom some numbers as they currently stand on the issue. The question before you is whether or not you personally support this change or not. Do you think that Funcom should proceed with implementing the planned changes to the Roll/Dodge system? poll

flyingf0xes · 2019-12-06T15:29:56.767Z

I chose the middle ground, but I think the momentum should only apply to Sprinting mechanics.

If the new momentum system applied only to Sprinting, it could solve the issues people have with crafting, gathering, and climbing while still helping limit disengagement in combat

wasabi · 2019-12-06T15:36:27.639Z

Slow acceleration when starting and stopping.

Lack of control when starting and stopping.

Inability to alter your character’s direction when falling.

Dodge/roll animation looks clunky.

Inability to quickly change direction.

In my opinion, this movement update does not make the game ‘realistic’. Modern day athletes, fighters, and soldiers would agree. Quickly changing direction is a part of almost every sport. Rolling around like a grandpa getting out of bed wouldn’t help you as a soldier. Losing control of your body and lack of speed when accelerating would be detrimental as a fighter.

This game is based in a time where lack of physical capabilities and athleticism would leave you dead in the sand with an axe in your back. Unless there is a new hidden stat called arthritis, this movement system is pretty bad and needs to be tweaked at the very least

Speed up the animations. Give us back control of our characters.

Thanks

Coryh4225 · 2019-12-06T15:39:46.467Z

I say remove the momentum based movement and instead go with a health based system. The more hurt you are the more sluggish you get. You already have hurt animations. If I get low on health I shouldn’t be able to sprint away full speed.

WhatMightHaveBeen · 2019-12-06T15:41:35.884Z

mining animation–a bit slow, but it is mining so other than a fraction of time more spent out harvesting, i can live with it.

Dodge roll—First time i felt i had a chance to avoid hits in Heavy against any NPC. the side roll is the better of the three directions. Back roll and forward roll seem to be more about attack, counter attack, and side to side is avoid. That is really how it should be.

Acceleration–a bit slow, an does feel unresponsive at times. But in general, the more i played, the less i noticed and started to game learn it (which is after a while to adjust, it feels 2nd nature).

Mounts—Still breaking a horse, so no data yet.

Parkour—I miss the ability to cliff dive. I have a feeling this is intended though, as that was one of the easiest escape tactics from cliff fights.

Grymtidings · 2019-12-06T15:44:02.966Z

I have tried to add those keymapping items into my input.ini file but for some reason it is not registering and still using WASD.

As for the movement issue, I think what they were going for is making your movement more strategic in combat so that you weren’t just tumbling all over the place. Have you tried a high agility build? I, personally, have not put anything in agility yet and still find combat acceptable and similar enough to what it was before that it isn’t too jarring of a change. While I think they need to tweak the dodge/roll a bit, the movement itself seems more weighted and satisfying to me… shrug

Valkor · 2019-12-06T15:44:58.904Z

CodeMage:

… the truth is that a significant portion of our playtime is spent in non-combat situations. This change makes them really cumbersome and onerous:

Mining stone and chopping wood are much slower than before.

Navigating around one’s own house is slow and clumsy.

Jumping off a cliff and grabbing it on the way down is extremely difficult, to the point of being suicidal.

This post is absolutely correct. I chose neutral to the poll; I believe that the change could be implemented, however needs tweaking in its current state. Harvesting stone and wood is slower now, and as CodeMage indicated it feels cumbersome to even move around within your base now. The momentum acceleration seems unrealistically slow. Jumping forward from a stand-still seems to barely jump any distance at all now, and again has a very unrealistic feel to it.

I personally do not engage in PVP as often as many others, but I can understand the reasoning for implementing the momentum. I would like to see this momentum mechanic implemented, but tweaked or improved so that life as an exile is not such a cumbersome, “slow clumsy” (as earlier put) endeavor for day-to-day living outside of PVP.

jot29 · 2019-12-06T15:50:49.856Z

WhatMightHaveBeen:

mining animation–a bit slow, but it is mining so other than a fraction of time more spent out harvesting, i can live with it.

Its quite an indirect nerf at the Oil of bounty, which uses a timer… You need longer to go from one stone to another and you even pick slower…

WhatMightHaveBeen · 2019-12-06T15:56:44.277Z

A trick I do is to un-arm in between nodes to buy more time with it…but i get your point. TBH, after getting a foothold on server, i don’t use the bounties for harvesting anymore. 2 FoP are better served for semi-permanent weapons imo.

idjiit · 2019-12-06T15:57:13.856Z

The movement / momentum is okay… I get why it’s changed and I hated the running for 2 hours pvp.

The jumping / parkour / in air controls makes me very sad. It was one of my favorite things in the game.

Imo you have too much of a tendency of pendulum swing changes. Like the Annihilater or Lifeblood spear, you nerfed to uselessness.

Maybe you should have only implemented the new roll first and see how it worked. Or only apply momentum to sprint, not the normal run / air controls etc.

MLVNRT · 2019-12-06T15:59:40.715Z

I was having trouble with the forum chatbot, so I accidentally chose the wrong vote. I definitely dislike the new movement. It resembles the realistic physics of characters in late Rockstar titles but without the animations to compliment it. Now you just get forced into slow-motion from time to time. Not a good game-play flow in my opinion. It just feels like the game is lagging.

I would also like to add that some enemies have about twice the speed and range of the player character. So play your own game?

JKerman · 2019-12-06T16:01:37.558Z

I am not a fan of player acceleration. We’ve had 1½ years of fast, responsive movement and now you decide to put the brakes on. I believe that’s a wrong move to take with a game that’s been out for that long. Movement is a key pillar in feeling engaged with a game, and right now I am definitely not engaged.

I keep a tidy base. After collecting a bag full a loot, running from chest to chest, station to station is so bad. The wind up just irritates me.
As a base building survival game with a lot of grind for acquiring materials, it is equally irritating accelerating from rock to rock, plant to plant, or animal to animal. It only amplifies the grind, pushing me away from the game.
The only games I recall playing in the last decade that have acceleration is Sonic and Mirror’s Edge. Those games employed acceleration because it suites their design. Acceleration simply doesn’t fit in Conan Exiles or any of its related genres (7 Days to Die, Minecraft, Factorio, The Forest). It’s just not that kind of game and, IMO, the expectation from gamers who come from other survival games are not looking for it. Base building, surviving, RP’ing, adventuring. Those experiences need to come first.
The only place I feel acceleration could maybe get accepted is when going from a running to sprinting state. I would be okay with a very brief wind up for that. 500 msec tops to get a feeling for it, but not be washed out by a blatant wind up. As for going from a dead stop to running state however, that needs to go back to its original implementation.

Narelle · 2019-12-06T16:03:23.497Z

MLVNRT:

I was having trouble with the forum chatbot, so I accidentally chose the wrong vote

Click on Hide Results and vote again

dorpie · 2019-12-06T16:17:31.378Z

Reason I dislike the new momentum movement is just because that the old one was better in every way. I like the fast phased aspect of the game. That’s why I also dislike all changes that slow down weapons and stuff around it aswell.

Feels like nerfs is the easiest way to try make PVP balanced. But not the best. If we really dont want people escaping that easy, just go back to the old spear meta and make the other weapons fitting the meta spear.
In that way ppl will struggle with escaping, cuz they will be dead before that scenario happens.

Quintus · 2019-12-06T16:19:45.831Z

I would have voted ‘like’ if the momentum was a bit faster. The new roll is growing on me, however, the character gains momentum unrealistically slow. I can gain speed IRL faster.