POLL => Roll/Dodge Changes

By now we have all heard of the coming changes to the Roll/Dodge mechanic. While some are excited for this change, others are troubled by them. It is time to show Funcom some numbers as they currently stand on the issue. The question before you is whether or not you personally support this change or not.

Do you think that Funcom should proceed with implementing the planned changes to the Roll/Dodge system?

  • YES change to the new Roll/Dodge system
  • NO keep the old Roll/Dodge system

0 voters

3 Likes

Again a topic where you shouldn’t ask the playerbase first. This is a major design decision and I don’t want it compromised by ppl here that are afraid of having to change their way to PvP. There is a good reason for the dodgeroll change. It might not be perfect in the first build but it can’t be any worse than now.

I would rather hear arguments than seeing 100x 1 minute reading time new accounts manipulating this vote.

9 Likes

OK, argument to support my opinion as well as my vote (against). I like the way that dodge is implemented right now, it’s part of how I have learned to fight bosses without having to use a thrall every time. It’s also the main strat that I have used to capture most of the Named I have caught, to live long enough to knock them unconscious with lower level truncheons.

There are other ways, but I like this way. I’ll learn to live with the new way if I have to, and try it out on testlive, but I’d rather not have to. I’m primarily a PVE and Solo player so it’s likely to be less of a pain for me than it will be for PVP’ers, but I’m really not clear on how it enhances anyones experience, except to add a handicap to higher armour tiers.

7 Likes

Oh sorry Olumat. I suppose as long as your own PvP experience is enhanced that is all that matters right…? This may surprise you, but this change isnt exactly popular with a lot of the PvP player base you are claiming to represent either.

This change is going to seriously hurt Singleplayers, Solo players and newer players. For Singleplayers and Solo PvE players it is absolutely vital to be able to quickly breakaway from combat and buy enough time to quickly consume a healing item and regroup before jumping back into the fray. Especially when facing large groups of 6-7, or even up to 12 strong opponents such as Skeletons or Lost Tribe, or more agile opponents such as Wights, Corrupted Wolves, the White Tiger and Albino Bat. We dont have clans to watch our backs for us. Our only defence against vastly superior opponents and large groups is to out manouver them, and if necessary, beat a hasty retreat. This will likely mean that enemies will have more time to land free blows on us before we can recover from our dodge animation. Although I doubt it, I hope this change never mskes it into the game.

We should not be discarding a fully functional, tried and tested system. We have all had to learn and master the games dodge system, and have prospered as a result of it. At its best this change will make dodging slightly worse, and at worst it will be a disaster. I for one hope it never makes it into the game.

#Ifitaintbrokedontfixit

24 Likes

It is tried and tested and works, that is what is important to me.

I view it as the big fat guy rolling out of bed manouvere.

5 Likes

I am quietly confident that you will change your mind on this one once you realise how much slower your character will be to counter coming out of a roll.

4 Likes

AGILITY builds already had reasons to exist:

-stamina reduction when running
-fall damage reduction
-higher armour ratings
-aaannd…making Heavy armour dodge like Medium armour at level 4

Now ALL armours dodge even worse than beforehand; even at level 5…

13 Likes

A stats usefulness lies in the eye of the beholder. For example, I am a purely Offline Singleplayer and I view Survival as a dump stat. Its not that it is inherently bad, just that I personally view combat stats as more pertinent.

I am quite the opposite. I can always scale back my existing Thrall count, or even disable the cap in the Admin Panel. But that said, I do feel that current limits feel a bit too low, and I actually really feel for you guys on this one.

5 Likes

I did not vote as there was no option for, “Undecided due to the fact that I have not tested the new mechanic.”

10 Likes

I’ll explain a little bit my choice but first of all, I want to say that I’m not against a change for the dodge system, but what we’ve seen wasn’t that, appealing (I think it’s the good word ? :joy:) in my opinion. Like Zerog said, it gives a build with agility a lot more impact but the issue that I have with that is from the point of view of a solo player. You can’t have people specializing themselves like having a tank, a dps etc… You need to work by yourself and that will greatly cripple me as i’ll have to choose something to remove between VIT/STR/GRI. VIT is vital, GRIT is too important so bye STR, but solo, you need it, sometimes your thrall will not do nothing and the fight will be on your hand (memories of me killing the Red Mother while Spinas was admiring the walls…). BUT the BIG, REAL issue is that it just buffs the recovery time after a dodge ! That is, in my opinion, kind of a joke. The roll is slower, your recovery too, and you can’t boost the speed of the roll ? No thank you. I, myself, can roll faster that they do !

8 Likes

Why do you keep saying how it will be horrible because it is so much slower?
If that’s your issue maybe watch today’s stream. With high agility they looked faster than current light dodge, which is nuts. It’s just the distance is shorter, but as long as the iframes are still there I don’t see how you’ll be getting hit by things that you could avoid before.

It looks like the roll is slow, and does not give you enough distance needed to back away or heal up.
i frame is great during the roll, but when you are up again , you still IN the fight, you are still too close to baddies, so one little bad breath hits you and your healing stops. ( if you can even pop it)
will try it , but honestly , I like the " feel" of the roll now and the new roll might make me move on from the game , It looks that game changing to me.
personally I wish they would show videos of the new roll in action, like in the mounds or something, so we can see how it works. not just standing alone with no one around trying to murder you.

9 Likes

I feel that this is a genuine question here tyswifty, and by the gods I will give you the most genuine answer I possibly can! I am not trying to fob you off here, but @Gavinrad captured my reasoning almost perfectly here. The thing for us as he said is that it is not just the reduced speed which factors into this, or for that matter the reduced distance. A big, and I mean BIG part of it is the forced cooldown period after completing the animation before we can recover to move or attack. If the animation is slower, shorter and allows enemies a greater window to land free hits us after completing it, then this may very well be the death writ for Singleplayer mode, and Solo players in others; even with the aid of stronger Thralls. As I mentioned above^^, when fighting superior numbers and/or opponents, the only thing which keeps us in there with a fighting chance is our ability to out manouvere them. Furthermore as Gavinrad mentioned, we cant afford to be constantly running around with a minimum of 30 Agility just to be able to dodge and recover at an even lesser speed than previously. Tyswifty I dont no which mode you play, but no matter which, I bear you no grudge, only goodwill. Balance is not something which is unique to PvP mode, or for that matter any other mode. You must realise that just as certain changes can unbalace your mode to varying degrees, they can mine also. Although it frustrates from time to time, I understand that occasionally PvP needs weapon re-balancing, and most of the time I do not oppose these; as I can always switch to a suitable replacement. However, unless they add an Admin setting to switch back to the old roll/dodge animations, I am shackled to it permanently. And in terms of the ‘risk of damage’ to my mode here, it is absolutely through the roof and still going. To give this some bearing of context for reference against PvP, it would probably be the equivalent of Funcom adding in a new Legendary Spear which does 600 hp damage, and has triple (×3) the regular attack animation speed. Basically…if you get hit while trying to engage the enemie(s), death is a guarantee. Potentially entire areas of the map such as New Asgarth and the Mounds of the Dead may become unclearable to Singleplayers and Solo players.

Tyswifty I love this game and I love Funcom. And for the record I have absolutely nothing to gain from this lobbying. The best I could possibly do here is break even if they abandon the planned changes, which they almost certainly wont. BUT…the worst I could do is be locked out of certain content on the map if it is as bad as it appears. You know I honestly hope that all of this has been for nothing, and that the new dodges are an improvement. Then a few weeks from now you are back here rubbing it in going “see I told you so!”, to which I will reply “you sure were tyswifty, you sure were…”. But if I am right here, this could cripple Singleplayer mode in ways most unimaginable.

Ps- Im sorry for the wall of text, but I wanted to try and explain it to you the best I can. Hopefully I did not fail.

9 Likes

Wow. That looks even weirder than what they showed in the previous stream. The zero-agility dodge is still horribly slow, but now we have the comically fast full-agility dodge. And regardless of how fast it is, it’s awfully short.

6 Likes

Ok to be honest I’m not totally info favour of the current dodge, and I welcome a change, but if the side dodge has to be so slow, then we should be able to pick a side step instead (with another key combination).

1 Like

Needs a third option: Abstaining until I’ve had a chance to mess around with it

2 Likes

I never quite know what to think of these kinds of polls, so I rarely vote on them any more.

On the one hand, it seems silly (no offense intended Croms) to vote on something we haven’t tried yet. On the other, once it hits Live, the ship has most definitely sailed in terms of postponing the system for any essential tweaking. I don’t believe cancelling the new dodge altogether is viable - it made it through whatever kill-this-feature gates exist internally at Funcom, and thus it’s coming to the game.

Ideally a feature such as this would have a good long time in TestLive, but it seems to see less and less use these days (or maybe I’m just not paying attention).

For the record, though, I too am feeling a bit… skeptical of what I’ve seen of the new dodge system.
They stated “PvE = heavy armor only, we want to change that”, well it isn’t true for me, but then I’m one datapoint only. The PvP reasoning (while probably true) means little to me except cause a vague sort of irritation.

4 Likes

A poll without testing it first? Yeah no

Feel free to add another data point, if it helps :wink: I have several PVE specs that rely on medium armor.

It’s just a poll. It’s not Funcom’s official poll, it’s not guaranteed to have any effect whatsoever. We’re also all free to abstain from voting if we don’t like it :wink:

1 Like

With all respect, where does your confidence stem from? A single dev stream? Or have you actually tested the new system? I have not, and before making any judgements, I want to test it. I’m hoping this’ll hit Testlive before live release, so maybe I’ll have an opinion then. But I won’t make any knee-jerk assessments based on potentially unfinished product shown in one stream, especially since they hinted on the stream that they had made other combat changes they decided not to show us - changes which may be designed to compensate for the slower dodging speed.

Like you and Shadoza, I’m a Solo player, and I’m concerned about this change that was obviously made for PvP first. But I cannot decide whether the change is good, bad or neutral until I’ve experienced it myself.

3 Likes