Look, I’m not getting into this whole ridiculous argument about removing one game mode, and similar inflammatory crap, but there’s one thing that needs to be set straight. Just like you PVP players call out PVE players when they don’t understand something about PVP, there are things you don’t understand about PVE mode.
When a PVE player complains about the effects of some balancing decision on PVE combat, they’re not complaining about things they can’t do. They’re complaining about things that stop being fun.
PVP players and PVE players both play this game for the same reason: to have fun. For PVP players, the ultimate fun lies in the battle with other players. Sure, you guys get to experience the PVE content, too, but even if it’s not very engaging, the payoff at the end of it is that you’ll get to fight other players.
For PVE players, the PVE content is the payoff. Take New Asagarth, for example. When going there, what’s more fun:
slaughtering all the enemies just by mindless clicking, without any worry?
chipping away at the enemies while cheesing their pathfinding around a bugged spot?
having to strategize in order to fight enemies in small groups and heal up between those fights?
If the combat is too easy, many players will opt for the first approach. If the enemies hit too hard and the healing is too difficult, most will opt for the second approach. But the approach that is really fun is the last one.
It’s similar with bosses and dungeons – they’re all doable, but there’s a difference between letting your thrall do all the work, or chipping away at the boss’s health in an endless slog, or picking the correct pattern of timed dodges and attacks that stack DoT.
Again, none of this is an argument for removing a game mode. I’m just trying to explain that PVE combat balance has different concerns.
I’m sorry but I just don’t get this pvp vs PvE junk. It’s dumb prejudice and it just needs to stop. Everyone needs to come to terms with being an adult and realize compromise is the art to maintain everyone mildly unhappy so that one group isn’t majorly unhappy.
hey listen man, that was a great answer.
I dont understand the PVE aspect, but I can see what you mean.
my response was only towards the removal of one game mode, because i think saying thats the reason the game suffers is beyond stupid.
but at the same time, its bad for the overall game play, if PVE players try and comment and convince devs to do certain changes related to PVP, when they dont play it.
If the PVP community could debate/discuss the pvp changes, and PVE could do the same for pve, then it would give a much better overall result.
It’s all inter-related. My point is that we work together to improve the game as a whole vs running off to our corners and just focusing on what we want. That’s not how life works and it shouldn’t be how this game is designed. Both foci are important. PvP interaction is important as is building design as is the entire game’s environment and NPC interactions. It’s all important because each advances the game and the immersion factor entertains all of us. There shouldn’t be catering to one over the other which is why we all need to have discussions and we all have valuable inputs if we choose to. Suggestions can be biased but that is why we need to speak up over the issues of said suggestions. As we discuss, reputations are garnered and we take that into consideration when evaluating their posts. If we segregate the game then everyone looses in the end as the game morphs in one direction to mortal Kombat and Sims in the other direction. I would hate either because CE is a wonderful blend of both.
But that is where you seem to have lost sight. Please go around and view the post on the forum and list how many topics are started by PvE players asking for changes. Then how many of them are asking for changes to PvP? Basically zero.
HOWEVER! PvP players do on the regular ask for changes to be made for the sake of PvP without any thought to how it will effect PvE-C, PvE or Offline solo players. That is the main reason that everyone else tends to speak up in those threads, because those suggested changes DO effect their play styles, and in their opinion those effects are in a negative way. Though I have gone on to support several suggestion that PvP’ers have made, while arguing against others.
That is the main difference that you simply do not seem to grasp here. I get that you are passionate about your play style. You should be! Others should be passionate about their playstyle as well without being told that “pvp is the only way to play the game” in almost every thread (not directed at you, just a general statement).
So, would it be nice if the pvp community could debate/discuss pvp changes all to themselves? Sure. If they did not impact any of the other game modes in any way at all. Since that is not the case however, then that is a rather arrogant way to look at things and unrealistic. It is just as bad as your claiming that pve players are trying to convince devs to change things related to pve. Your are trying to convince the devs of things that WILL effect pve, pve-c AND solo/offline singleplayer games. If it’s not good for one side of the equation, then it’s not good for the other side either. No one side is better than the other.
Never gonna happen. We get accused of “beating a dead horse,” or “broken record” or whatever. They just shout us down. The dream is dead. Never mind that we (used to) turn in glitches, flaws or issues like this DLC “imbalance” all the time.
I actually want to pvp so I’m sympathetic to a degree. I think (and I can only speak for myself) the subtext on a lot of pvp discussions draws those of us who don’t actively pvp into the conversations because either it looks like it will affect pve or simply because an argument is weak and well… I get bored and forum pvp, while misguided, can be fun… I am guilty of this and I know it. Again I think if the game had more pvp specific settings that didnt spill over into pve, it would be a lot less contentious for some of us. That’s something I hope can be addressed in the game but I’m not sure how realistic it is.
I agree. No offense to Testerle, but it was a bad take. Like @anon83039162 said, people really need to stop dragging these forums into their imaginary battle of PVP vs PVE.
Changes requested by PVE players, for PVE reasons, can have a negative impact on PVP. That’s why PVP players have to speak up in topics that demand PVE changes, to point out the consequences.
Why is it so hard to accept that changes requested by PVP players, for PVP reasons, can have a negative impact on PVE and that PVE players should speak up about that?
Just to be clear, I’m not talking about this particular thread. I don’t see anything wrong with Funcom fixing the problems @AxeIsAnnoying wanted to bring up.
I was wondering when someone was going to pop up with this trope. And there’s some truth in it, too, so let’s get that out of the way first: yes, there are people on these forums that jump into a thread and post something inflammatory without contributing anything to the actual discussion.
The knee-jerk reaction of other players is to engage them, and that happily gets a thread derailed, until it devolves into a toxic free-for-all. Veiled insults and ad hominems start flying, flags pile up, and the thread gets locked down and de-listed.
Yes, that happens. It’s also avoidable. Next time we see one of those trolls post some off-topic bait, we could flag it and move on. Or if it’s not off-topic, but it also doesn’t contribute anything, we can just ignore it and move on.
But you’re not really complaining about that, are you? You said you get “shouted down”. And yeah, sometimes you do. Here’s the thing though: instead of trying to figure out when and why that happens, your reaction is to want to silence the dissenting voices.
If you were honest with yourself, you would realize that the situation is far from this picture you paint of a unified PVP minority being silenced at every step by a unified PVE majority.
First of all, neither the PVP nor the PVE community are united. Left to your own devices, you PVP players can’t even agree on whether daggers are OP or not, whether all daggers are a problem or just Feroxic, whether it’s the light attack damage or the hit boxes or the target lock, or whatever.
Second, there are threads by self-proclaimed high tier PVP players giving out suggestions for Funcom, that are completely ignored by the usual PVP clique I see complaining about being silenced. Funny thing is, they don’t get shouted down. Some of the less elitist PVP players go there and give their feedback, and some PVE voices speak up too, and there’s some off-topic banter, but all in all it’s a pretty peaceful discussion.
From where I stand, it looks like there’s a group of PVP players who consider themselves an elite and who want to be able to say what they say without any opposition. Anyone who dares oppose their view is ridiculed as a “RPer” and told to shut up because they don’t understand PVP. Even when some of those dissenters turn out to be PVP players, they’re told they’re “not skilled enough” to speak or some other variation of No True Scotsman. And when silencing dissent invariably fails, this group of people then claims they’re being silenced themselves.
Here’s a novel notion: it doesn’t really matter if people speak up against your calls for changes. What matters is whether you are able to explain what you’re asking for and why. The ones who need to read and understand your arguments are Funcom first, then maybe the rest of us. Whether you discuss it with the rest of the players or not is your choice, but if all you do is open a topic that says “nerf daggers because they’re OP”, then good luck getting Funcom to care about that in the first place, much less wade through a whole thread of you and your buddies trying to silence people who said “no, we don’t want another nerf”, trying to extract a nugget of wisdom from the resulting mess.
So yeah, “the dream is dead” and will hopefully remain dead as long as you dream of support for your elitism.
This is the core of the topic, precisely it. Probably why @AxeIsAnnoying is pretty terse on the OP and following posts. These pieces, when combined, grant a perceived advantage in PvP. They make no difference in any other mode. I think it’s important to point that out, I apologize for missing this comment earlier, it really struck a chord with me.
If the two pieces do in fact negatively impact PvP, specifically raiding, then Funcom aught to take a serious look at those two pieces and their hit boxes or interactions with things such as explosive jars when compared to comparable pieces from other DLC sets. If there is in fact a significant difference, then they do need to adjust those pieces to make them in line with the others, even if they still visually look unique. There really is no reason why a cosmetic piece should function differently to provide an advantage like that, at least in my opinion.
I don’t want to get too particular about it, but if you recall earlier DLCs had issues with their meshes, where it made possible the escape to the nether regions of the world. This is similar to the oversight regarding these two pieces. Coupled with an active defender who is pre-placing bombs to defeat “stacks,” you can pretty much stay pristine vs an entire clan with little more than a repair hammer and mats.
This is categorically the style of imbalance Funcom has worked to eliminate.
you do realize this thread is about pay 2 win DLC in regards to pvp?
And i originally started responding to a PVE player who typed it wasnt.
So your entire message couldnt be more wrong even if you tried.
I dont think im the one who “lost sight” as you said.
Once again, a PVE player trying to comment without full context. thanks for proving my point once again.
I get the point of the pieces being better than the others and it should be addressed, but calling it “pay to win” is a bit of an overstatement. No one has yet described what “winning” looks like in pvp to my knowledge. I’m still waiting for an explanation. Don’t take that the wrong way, people have fun in different ways, but winning is an absolute in any competition; there is a game and one side is an objective victor; pvp does not have this. It has a lot of mayhem and it has dead people at the end of a fight… who get up and dust themselves off and rejoin the fight.
Conan Exiles is not PvP. It is PvB, which after a few months turns into PvMe. (Cratered self-esteem.)
The devs have moved heaven and earth to make this game a passive castle-fest. The name of the game in PvB is 1. Rapidly kill defenders from on high or down low 2. Bomb and 3. Scoop.
Nemedian DLC defeats two of these three mechanics, because it allows a competent player to hold out almost indefinitely. The other DLCs do not.
So, instead of actually responding to any of the points in my post, you would rather just sit there with your hand over your ears and cry “lalalala I can’t hear you”.
You still haven’t addressed. And I guarantee that you won’t, because you can’t without proving that you are, in fact, in the wrong.
If you actually think that is wrong, then you are delusional in the extreme.
So, was I also wrong that you that you are passionate about your play style? After all you said my entire message couldn’t be more wrong. Well then, I guess in truth you really don’t give a damned about pvp and are just here to troll. I doubt that is the case though. You just didn’t bother to read did you?
Yeah, yeah either you have lost sight, or you just flat out refuse to even look. Either rate I really don’t care.
Once again a PVP player refusing to read in order to talk down to anyone who doesn’t play PVP to prove their “superiority”. Oh see, I can be condescending too. Thanks for proving my point as well. Have a nice day, because I’m done speaking to you.
