Dt was “weak” from 2008-2010.
From 2010 to today, DT has been rather powerful.
So I think he’s had his glory in the sun for quite some time?
Just because a class was underpowered it does not mean that you have to make up for it by letting it be overpowered. That’s not balance, that’s just as unbalanced as if a DT was completely underpowered.
And the current state of the DT is long overdue for some changes, they are overpowered since 9 years now since VoM was added.
Don’t get me wrong, I like playing my DT but seeing that they sometimes solo tank, do more DPS than the DPS classes AND have more HPS than the healers then something IS wrong with it. But I guess class changes wont be coming anymore.
Problem with DT is, that there is no easy fix and full revamp won’t happen.
Sure there is:
(From a PvP standpoint)
As previous posters have pointed out, the big problem with them in the current state of the game is that it’s essentially pointless to stance dance, as there is almost no damage increase from leaving defensive stance. Simply adding a big negative PvP damage debuff to defensive stance would solve many issues relating to the DT in PvP.
Additionally, I don’t think DT became “op” until the addition of raidfinder rings and crit pots. With the addition of these items, fully geared DTs have consistent crits, so the inconsistent DT damage becomes consistent. When you have 40% crit chance, crits aren’t exactly rare anymore. VoM procs used to be incredibly inconsistent, which is why I think the class wasn’t actually anything good in PvP for a looong time.
Combine that with 30% additional crit damage from the exile rune, and you essentially have a class that can potentially aoe down an entire team alone while in defensive stance.
The problem is that if funcom nerfs the class because of its capability when FULLY geared, everyone who plays the class when undergeared suffers tremendously. I don’t think DT does so hot until it has EVERYTHING, and the DTs with such a capability are few and far between.
To me, it indicates the things that should be nerfed are the ridiculous rings, potions, and runes.
As a related point, I think this is also why there were so few Dark Templar on Saga of Blood. Many of the necessary items in order to get to that godlike state were unavailable until the fury merge.
Dt is class that has shattered into million pieces and glued together with Vom
design failure tbh, no class should rely to get crits to function
DT is so powerful in this time.
DT is a powerhouse indeed. But you rarely find them, annoying or even realize they are in the minigame, because its so easy to walk away from them.
DTs definitive drawback lays in its poor movement abilities. If you are gonna nerf its power too DT will be so useless it will be sad to look at.
DT was strong before VOM too.
DT is very strong absolutely. But with correct focus of mana draining them and cc locked and armour debuffing, they can be managed.
I disagree that DT was strong before VOM.
If anything, I think it was the weakest class in the game (from a PvP perspective) before VoM and AAs were introduced. The gear and AA are what has enabled DT.
From your perspective, what made DT strong before AA?
I don’t think DT was a strong class before AA but it definitely wasn’t weak. The thing that made DT good before AA was combo molding.
If you played DT before aa and didn’t combo mold it was trash but because the male version of DT had some of the best combo’s to mold(Low lvl combos with good dmg and short animations) you could pump out a crazy amount of combos while being super mobile. Fav class I ever played in any MMO AA just made the class boring and op.
Combo molding and combo cancelling have always been 2 different things you baddie
I don’t know if I’d say they weren’t struggling. There were very, very few dark Templar that were perceived as “threats” before AA, and most of those were duelers with 40% invulns from bugged battlekeeps (Torbull, anyone remember him?). I can say that before AA, there was literally no reason to have a DT in group in comparison to guardian (used to be REALLY op, 5k bloody vengeance bull), carnage conq (back in the day they were hard to play but incredibly strong. To this day I consider trentreznor aka bigcase the cream of the crop, as he single handedly proved that class was a threat), and barbarian.
DT had low damage and utility, with no reliable burst and slow combos in a time where demos had roughly 6 instant crowd controls of varying types, and few players had ANY protection.
I remember you running around with DKK. You were definitely the best PvP DT on tyranny, but I think the class was still crap until VoM and the new OP gear was introduced.
Ahh, bv gards:grin:
Combo jumping, molding and cancelling were all things that made the male DT playable before AA and stupid strong after AA. In a pre made I agree guard was always a better choice.
can you explain the difference between combo molding and combo canceling?
Molding was that bug in 1.04 where you could do 2 combos at once. That was fixed fast and then there was only combo cancelling left.
Every DT was a nonfactor before the AAs including you ducky
No.
The last thing this game needs at this point in time is to be nerfing classes. WAY too many other things would come before that IF they had the resources to put into major coding.
I have been with this game since closed beta. I have lived through the prior nerfs. One of the nice things about this game being older is that most of the “nerf this class! nerf this ability! nerf everything but my class!” nonsense has mostly died down.
Please just stop already. Nerfing just causes many more people to become unhappy than it makes happy in most cases. That is the last thing this game needs is drama and to drive people away.
Also, cries for nerfing, while sometimes justified especially when a game is relatively new, are usually coming from a narrow viewpoint about a limited scenario but the person/people calling for the nerf tend to not think about the collateral fall out. In other words, if the OP was calling for nerfs in a certain PVP scenario then there was probably little to no thought or concern about the downside the nerf hammer would bring to PVE raiding, grouping and even (often especially) solo.
The nerfs in nearly every MMO I’ve played extensively (almost every popular one and most from closed beta on) are almost always done with a hammer instead of a scalpel. Even if there is a minor change or a very specific fix that can be applied, it just usually is way over done on the first pass. That often results in a period when the class becomes useless until they decide to tweak the nerf back an inch at a time when the nerf was 50 yards.
Also, I can think of other classes that can be crazy powerful in specific circumstances. Opening up the nerf can of worms also often leads to cascade nerfing of other classes and abilities.
So, for the love of Crom, please just stop already. NO.
(gets down from soapbox)
I would agree that DT before aa was zero factor in structured pvp. Still I would take DT before AA over what it became after AA any day.
From my perspective insane comboskipping utilities combined with DTs procs made DTs strong before VOM. But we must exclude the age og casters ofc.
Then DTs had their greates strength in the time when they had unnerfed vom with their comboskipping. That was absolutly insane.
Now I find them decent. As I said all you got to do is keep a distance. They are almost never present to me in minis, because they cant put up a quick burst and they cant pin you in the fight. You may just leave the fight when you wish.
DTs Are strong in duels. Because thats when you have to fight them. But PvP shouldnt be balanced around 1v1.