Past time for a TOS update

Both? But with caveats :slight_smile:
What I meant is that we have said everything that there was to say about this topic multiple times and the devs are fully aware of it. It’s just not possible for them not to be at this point…

And while it can be annoying that they choose to manage official servers this way and not really strive to improve them… it is clearly intentional and not an accident or not even a case of incompetence as some people around here like to state that… It’s a completely deliberate choice that’s working exactly the way they want it to. - Or more like the best way it can currently work…

On the other hand I do strongly disagree with the OP suggestion of installing baby-monitors in the game aimed specifically at official servers. Others explained that above in detail.


They could also try to drastically cut down on the number of official servers… (leave LESS than 10% of the current ones) so that the available staff can do a better job at managing them and then maybe even make sure those servers are running on competent hardware and are optimized well enough.

Where would that leave us though? If you significantly improve something, you will get more people using it… The people who would’ve went on private servers will join officials as soon as they get a good reputation… suddenly they can’t play because of queue times… would have to add more servers yet again, which cannot be managed on the same level without adding more staff… so we’d be back where we started.

Adding more staff is also not viable, else they would have done that… It’s not profitable since it’s not a paid service… It would be the equivalent of throwing money out the window :man_shrugging: so I understand why they don’t do it from a business point of view.


The only way it would be possible to turn official servers into what people here want them to be is by making it a paid service… in which case they would have the extra income to justify hiring admin staff and managing servers in a more high quality manner.

BUT, most people who are banging the table would not be willing to pay for it, because we like being loud and demanding stuff, but we’d like that for free…

I know, some people WOULD gladly pay for a quality service like that, however the majority of the player base does not play on official servers, so obviously the service would have to be entirely optional and not affect the ability to play the game in single player / private servers.
Yet again though… nobody here even mentioned this aspect, it’s not what people are demanding… so that sort of hints at the statistics… you have people once in a blue moon suggesting that they might be willing to pay for a premium official server, which is probably why Funcom hasn’t started experimenting with that aspect.


What I’m saying is that there is no solution to be had for this “problem” here… and we can start as many threads as we want and have the exact same discussions we had a million times, it will remain wishful thinking at best. As soon as you look at the big picture you’ll realize it’s just not viable, the actual solution is to find / make a server you are happy on and play there…

(EDIT: Just as a general clarification, I am not talking here about the things that they COULD do easily, like supplying clear ban reasons so players know what’s up etc. Those would definitely be nice and doable imo. and people should be asking for that indeed. )

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Understood.
Thank you for clarifying.

This one would opine another possibility.
The current state of affairs is as it is, not because that is what the Dev team wants, but rather because it is good enough for now. A place holder that may be gotten to at some point in the future.
As we all know, the game is constantly evolving. This one recalls when the build bans were a new and exciting thing. And when the fence foundation stacking got kiboshed. Some adjustments they may intend to get to on the future.

This one likes to think of the minds behind this game as imaginative and ambitious, with ideas that are possibly greater than the resources available to implement them. So something has to come first, and something has to wait in line.

The drudgery of ToS editing and the like is probably about as much fun on the creating end as it is on the receiving end. We all benefit when it’s moving smoothly, but any time before, after, or sideways, is just atrocious.

But wheeling back around, there may be some stubborn optimism that, in absence an explicit statement otherwise, the possibility is still on the table in the space future. So the occasional reminder is called for.

Now, humans are rarely restrained when expressing matters they are passionate about, so the gentle reminder sometimes gets gurgled in the vitriol of tummy issues from fretting over a thing, perhaps a little too much.

Regardless, it is very good that there are a variety of servers with different rules and expectations available. That way one can find one that suits them better while the officials continue evolving in hopefully a benign direction.

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Its not important how many people play the game, its important how many people buy items from the bazar on a regular basis.

Ofc people are playing longer sessions in a game that is all about building when they paid for building content recently. And by constantly throwing out new bazar stuff people that buy into those stuff feel the need of playing the game so they don´t get the impression they have gotten something out of the money they have spend.

But people playing doesn´t mean people are happy with the state of the game. Look at all the negativ reviews after the latest livestream. People are not happy with the changes to stamina and durability and Npc aggro ranges. But still they play.

I’ll get back to reading this in a second.

Just stumble on a base with 18, EIGHTTEEN T3 animal tamers. Why? Seriously if you want a petting zoo do it on a private server, do it in single player.

And a nice big rock cube right in the only place I know of where the salamander hatching spawn, so no hatching :roll_eyes:

The conspiracy side of me is saying funcom moderates; or doesn’t, public servers the way they do to push people to rent private ones from Gportal. I mean it’s not like the link isn’t right there in game.

So they know they are doing a poor job and losing players because of it, and they’re ok with that?

You mean like trying to push people to rent a private server from a company they endorse?

Ya, at this point I do think that is the best thing funcom can do.

Oh ya cutting the player base by oh 50%, would certainly make it easier for admin to admin.

The local walmart runs understaffed all the time, the manager gets a bonus for keeping the employee count to a minimum. More employees cuts in to profit, it doesn’t effect anyone paycheck, does effect the top dogs end gains. And I guarantee that dog don’t care about us.

I have said getting the battle pass should allow you to play on better servers. But then I think half the serever issues would vanish if they were capped at 20.

I wouldn’t. If funcom charged a reasonable rate to play on better moderated/running “Official” server. I’m fine with vanilla.

I’m disinclined to call them official servers. They are definitely “public”.

There is a Gportal link in game, so they sort of are.

There is a solution, just because funcom wont implement it doesn’t mean there isn’t one.

If I agreed with that I wouldn’t be starting these threads. My experience persistence pays off. Look at the age of war. Seems pretty weak unless you consider it a big QoL for combat, plus doing a much needed over haul of the purge system. I honestly don’t see this as the sort of massive content dump the age of sorcery was.
We wanted the headhunter wagons gone because they through the game balance way off and poof, gone.
We have been asking for an update to combat, main theme of the age.
We have been posting about just how bad the purge system is. Getting a complete overhaul.

I say we keep at it till we get The age of Admin. Funcom can implement the baby monitors and overhaul the TOS.

You know I do this when something needs repeating.

“Butts in seats sells content”. The more players there are in game the more comfortable people are to spend money. I had it explained to me like that while alphaing ACR.

Now I love Conan because it comes as close as I can find to my survival builder. I like to get on, build, explore, do dungeons. I don’t log in to play hall monitor, but when some one puts a desk in front of the bathroom door I have to do something.

Now I am left with a decision I don’t want to make, I don’t find it fun, and don’t like I’m put in a position where I feel obligated to.
That huge metropolis that surrounds the descent of dagon, the crevice, and penitent’s crossing is a clear violation of a few TOS rules. This person has put hundreds of hours in to this, I mean weeks, months of time. Not this players only build, they have a pretty damn big foot print on the severer. They build like there is no rule or the TOS has no limits.

Now because of the way funcom moderates the public servers, I feel obligated to report this multiple TOS violating build. Even though a time out and loss of multiple mega builds might prompt the player to quit. Thing is I don’t need to be the bad guy, no one does. If funcom put in the baby monitors; love that term, then the system could basically be automated. The servers would be far better moderated, especially PVE. I’m of the opinion most PVE players do not want to be that guy as well.

I think as a standard we all need to call it what it is. It’s not the Terms of Service.

It is the Terms of Conduct as a baseline and ToC for short but in reality is: Terms of conduct, guidelines and procedures. I know this is relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things but for the sake of newer people it is important to be accurate.

I think this suggestion shouldn’t be entertained. Others have probably noticed my avoidance of reporting so I’ll make it clear that it has nothing to do with that. My concern with such a suggestion is that it is a symptom of larger issues. From the volume of reports, the fact that the ones who deal with the tickets are overwhelmed, to the oft repeated realization that reports either get actioned on without true investigation or ignored altogether and of course the fact that the ToC is poorly written, is not clear and doesn’t seem to be enforced properly.

It shouldn’t be our responsibility to be vigilantes for a system that is wholly incomplete and can be so incredibly devastating.

I agree despite the cries not to in the past. If something shouldn’t be built on then make it so. Don’t punish those that don’t know any better or assume that they’re built far enough away that it shouldn’t affect the site.

Keep in mind that there are many buildings in Xel Ha that are not POIs.

As it is in the mechanism for Message of the Day they can’t add a link to it that is interactive. So players are going to swat it away. Someone like me who has a keen interest in the ToC has read it often but newer players will only really know that it exists based on that message. Some may try to find it, some may even find it. Most will not read it or even understand it in the state that it is now and ESPECIALLY since this game is a pretty hefty one with a lot to absorb and experience. It will be forgotten and misunderstood. The fact that me and others have asked for it to be in players’ faces doesn’t negate what I’ve said though. There needs to be more.


I’d like to point out that months ago it was mentioned in a now locked and delisted thread that the ToC was not the best and they’re working on it. They know. They are listening. It’s just not at the top of their priorities quite obviously.

The actions through Zendesk have also gone through several iterations. I’ve been watching the forums and other places for discussions on reports for almost a year now. Something has changed recently as well. Less action and I think this is also evidenced by your issues with this @DeaconElie . Perhaps that revamp that was mentioned is in the works and while they do focus some attention on it they’re not acting as much until their own procedures are updated? This is just me musing.

Of course that is hard to determine as @CodeMage has mentioned; they don’t tell us what their true process is. The mention of the bug that does not display suspension information is huge.

Not only are players not warned (ok we know that isn’t a thing but most want it), but they’re not even given the information. Then they’re forced to seek the information elsewhere. If they’re aware of the ToC and the forums they’ll send an inquiry through Zendesk (which AGAIN the ONLY option is ban appeal -_-). If they’re not, they come here, on Reddit, Facebook or Twitter and are told to go to Zendesk to get the info.

How much time and effort has to be wasted here?

Let’s look at a timeline of a report process at all:

Reporter *

  1. Find violation
  2. Use the in game option or head directly to Zendesk
  3. Open up the report option
  4. Take screenshots or video of the offence and map marker
  5. Take 10-30 minutes of your time to actually put together a detailed report including the clan name, character names and funcom ids if applicable including uploading a video that can take some time
  6. Send report
  7. Receive automated message that report was received
  8. Wait
  9. Wait
  10. Wait
  11. Wait
  12. Wait
  13. 1-3 weeks later receive an automated response that they’re overwhelmed and hope the situation has resolved itself
  14. Reply to the automated response that it has not improved
  15. Wait
  16. Wait
  17. Wait
  18. Receive response that the situation was resolved or that they didn’t find any issues 3 days to a week later

Actioned on with no info

  1. Log in to your base wiped (if you’re savvy you know the time frame this happens too)
  2. Be confused
  3. Get frustrated and angry
  4. Is it a bug? Was something missed? What the hell?
  5. Re-read the ToC multiple times to try to understand what the issue was
  6. Come here to complain and try to understand
  7. Get told to go to Zendesk and thread locked
  8. File report under “appeal a ban” because that is the only option and creates false hope and contradicts the ToC in regard to suspensions
  9. Attempt to log in next day and receive the message that suspension info couldn’t be retrieved
  10. Get more confused
  11. Wait
  12. Wait
  13. Wait
  14. Wait
  15. Wait
  16. Receive a response within 1-3 weeks that they’re overwhelmed and hope the situation has resolved itself
  17. Respond to email that it hasn’t
  18. Wait
  19. Wait
  20. Wait
  21. Receive a response that it was due to violation of the land claim system and they’re not eligible for reconsideration because it is a suspension 3 days to a week later

Like man, this whole thing is ridiculous on all sides. It kind of reminds me of the old skool office clerk that prints emails and then photocopies them to distribute. So many things could be addressed, optimized, made clearer, less effort, etc.,…

(*) Now imagine how it feels to do this process when there’s doxxing and hacking going on…

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I am tired of the tos simply because it fails to address the elephant. People are too attached to the stuff and get bent out of shape over it.
Oh no. You lost stuff that you spent years collecting and building…so what? Did you enjoy doing getting all that? Then try it again and see how you can improve things. It doesn’t matter if it’s PvE or pvp. Hoarding is bad.

Let’s look at it this way. We got a generic sportsball game going on. All of us (including myself) have essentially taken the ball and keeping it from every other player because we have some weird notion that it’s ours and we earned the right to keep it. Then we get bent out of shape when the ref takes the ball away from us and puts it back in play.

Until we come to terms with our own misunderstanding of the game, no tos will help.

Not the situation here.
I’m not judging a build to be too big, the TOS does.
I’m not spying on anyone. It’s like a dead body in the middle of the road, kind of hard to ignore.
I’m not self proclaiming anything, I have said more then once I don’t want to be that guy, most PVE players don’t.

:100:

I’d debate on that. I mean, ya I have set up attic drop bases there. But not encased an entire building.
Although I think the entire city is due for an over haul. One building has the demolished camp of a slaver, so it would make sense relic hunters and religious zealots would have taken over a few of the structures.

Hell you could add a dungeon the relic hunters have opened, You’d need to get past them, then deal with what ever is in there keeping them out. Going to stop myself right there or my head will have a complete dungeon worked up by the end of the day :flushed:

Oh man, you are so spot on with that.

I used to say that I would probably pay a reasonably priced subscription for premium servers with guaranteed moderation SLAs. Over the time, certain actions by Funcom have eroded my trust in them and my good will towards them. Now my stance is that I would first wait to see what other subscribers reported about the premium subscription servers, before deciding to pay for them myself.

A large part of that erosion of trust has been their handling of the new monetization. Specifically, the repeated snafus with Bazaar items coupled by slowness in fixing those snafus.

Point being that, while I don’t disagree with the idea that quality service deserves to be paid for, Funcom’s track record with QA makes the idea of subscription servers less likely to be viable.

My guess is they have a rocknose farm. I never really understood people who relied on that kind of farming, but everyone has a different play style. :man_shrugging:

Then don’t. You still have private servers, single-player, and co-op. There has to be some option in there that doesn’t offend your sensibilities to such a degree as to drag politics into a forum discussion.

Some of us remember the times before the rules, when someone could get butthurt over something you said in global chat on a PVE server and retaliate by enclosing your whole base with a no-climb wall, forcing you to either stop playing on that server or start everything from scratch (and hope they won’t wall you in again as soon as you do so).

If I have to choose between some entitled asshat ruining months of my gaming or offending someone fragile enough to compare rule enforcement in a video game with real-life politics that affected millions of lives, well, you can guess which one I’ll choose.

Ironically, I think Deacon’s suggestion would go a long way towards making the current enforcement system run much more smoothly.

See, right now there’s no consequence for spurious, even malicious reports. Sure, the rules say that false reports can get you banned, but Funcom can’t really act on that because they know it’s incredibly easy to spoof the reporter information.

Being able to create a report from inside the game can help authenticate the report and link it to your in-game account. For that to work correctly, you would have to fill out the report in your game client, which would then send it to the game server, and the game server would attach your account information to it.

Once the authenticity of all reports is firmly established, Funcom can crack down on report abusers.

The game currently implements One Big Switch to turn off all no-build zones. The only way your suggestion would be acceptable is if Funcom replaces that with more fine-grained controls of which no-build zones to deactivate and which to keep.

Otherwise it’s a hard pass. Private servers and single-player mode shouldn’t have to suffer because of the combination of Funcom’s unwillingness to improve the moderation of official servers and the players’ unwillingness to accept even a little responsibility for their actions.

“Those who don’t know better” can get informed. The rules are being advertised every single time you log in. Yeah, it’s inconvenient to not be able to click on the link, but at some point you have to overcome the desire to have everything as comfortable as possible and invest a bit of effort yourself.

As for “those who assume that they’re built far enough away”, the assumption is really easy to validate for those who actually care abut it, rather than using it as an excuse. Hell, in many cases someone will actually tell you “hey, your build is blocking the giant croc, could you please not, thank you very much” instead of reporting you without a warning.

Or at least, they’ll do that on PVE and PVE-C servers. I understand that PVP has its own slew of problems.

This is a whole different, but incredibly fascinating topic of discussion. The crux of the matter is that the answer to that last question, for many players, might not be what you imagine it to be.

For example, I absolutely loathe most of the RNG-gated grind that this game forces on me. No, I did not enjoy getting my Lovetap or my Mistmourn or my Final Breath of the Red Mother or my Lianeele. Getting them is mind-numbinly boring and a total pain in the ass.

That doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy playing the game. I simply don’t want to have to repeat certain aspects of it unless I choose to.

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RNG is just gambling high and agree with you… It’s stupid. Apparently the devs agree as well since these things will now have limited time with no potential to fix them. This pushes folks towards crafting more, playing the roulette of treasure less.

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Maybe. I’ll need to see the actual balance before I can have an informed opinion. If things aren’t properly balanced, then all that change will do is make gameplay even more miserable for those who rely on the effectiveness of certain legendaries.

Honestly, I would think that if the devs really agreed with our sentiments about RNG, they would simply make the RNG less punishing.

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And your reasoning being?

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I wasn’t comparing the game to real politics …I just wrote that the “report someone quickly” system reminds me of a certain time in our history

the current system is OK, or would be OK if the FC allocated more resources to dealing with it
“Speeding up” via a button won’t solve it, it will just overwhelm the system more and more

How about rent a server instead of dictating how others run theirs?

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And you have access to a single player\ co-op server as well as the ability to rent a server. Plus you can play on non-official servers which are better anyways.

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How about rent a server instead of ruining the fun for others? See, these kinds of arguments are always useless because they can always be turned around.

Whether you like it or not, Funcom decided that the complaints about trolls and asshats who used to ruin our fun – see the “I don’t like you so I’ll wall you in” example I wrote about above – have merit and they established a set of rules for their servers. You are free to pick a server or a game mode that isn’t subject to those rules.

EDIT: I accidentally a couple of words :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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I’m not the one doing the dictating, there are rules YOU AGREE to every time you log in. Have you actually read them?

Oh yes lets not even try to enforce the TOS people agreed to play by :roll_eyes:
As far as I’m concerned you don’t want to play by the rules those are your options.

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Look on forum and other places (like reddit).
dozens (maybe hundreds) posts about false (abuse) reporting (with screens and proofs).
Troll clans and some individuals use report system to wipe competitors, or just for grief.

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People bases wiped without any warning or fact checking.

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Please do so yourself, but go further back into the past. You’ll find “dozens (maybe hundreds)” of posts complaining about trolls and griefers on official servers, and how they’re allowed to ruin people’s fun with impunity.

Yeah, no, I don’t want to go back to the bad old days when a clan of trolls who couldn’t cut it on PVP servers would move in on a PVE-C server, start slaughtering newbies and camping their corpses, call names and harass anyone who ran from a fight, get trapped inside someone’s base while chasing them around, try to wall off the owner of the base in retaliation for losing all of their gear, and then decide to pave over half of the map with foundation spam.

I’m glad Funcom put a stop to that behavior. If that’s the kind of server you enjoy, I’m sure someone will oblige you.

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