Perk Suggestions


#1

Hey folks, I’m the author of the Build Calculator hosted here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yrXuTvtfi9d_rGcxvbytALnjgFzfUwDfZh777mKxPuw/copy You can use it to test out builds, and see what perks they would get you.

I’ve been testing around with different builds, and seeing what is attainable, and diving into the calculations for attributes and perks. Here are my suggestions.

Feel free to also post your own suggestions below!


  1. Raise the total amount of attribute points we get. Any perk at level 40 or 50 is very expensive to get, unless you ignore other attributes. As such, the perks for those levels will be seldom taken. That’s 2/5ths of the perks that will not really be experienced by players! And they’re supposed to be the best ones! I’d really suggest giving us slightly more points so we can afford more of these late-game perks. Raise the total amount of points from 390 to 465.
    This would enable 40/30/20/20/20/10/10 builds. We currently only have access to 40/20/20/20/10/10/10 builds. The latter kind of build makes your character seem weak overall, with only one real strength. Crom forbid you want to get 50 in anything, which would mean a 50/20/10/10/10/10/5 build!

  1. Move the best perks into level 30. Anything above level 30 is expensive for players to get, without making serious concessions on other attributes. The level 30 perks should be the ‘default’ meta — the best perks in an objective sense, for the average player. Here are my suggestions for the perks that should be moved into the center column:
  • Swap the Agility 30 perk (no stamina cost for jumping) with the Agility 40 perk (cheaper dodging). Bringing down the dodging perk would make this more of an essential perk. This would make Agility more appealing, and more important.

  • Swap the Grit 30 perk (damage resistance) with the Grit 20 perk (stamina regeneration). The stamina regeneration effect is the stronger of the two perks, so it should be higher.

  • Swap the Accuracy 30 perk (cripple) with the Accuracy 40 perk (armor penetration). Bringing down the armor penetration perk would make this more essential. This would make accuracy more attractive to players who don’t used ranged. The armor penetration from accuracy is also too big. Reduce it from 50% to about 35% since it is more attainable.


  1. Combine some perks. There are certain perks that are already similar, these could be combined to free space for new perks.
  • Combine Survival 20 (2x harvest speed) and Survival 30 (bigger harvests from animals) into a single Survival 30 perk. This perk would just increase your harvest amount from everything. Wood, stone, animals… Call it “Scavenger”. This would make the Survival track appetizing to all playstyles.

  1. New perk ideas! Please contribute your own in the comments.
  • Survival 20 — Primitive Appetite. Gain more health recovery from low-regeneration foods, such as bugs or human flesh. Also gain some water from all foods, including bugs and human flesh.

  • Accuracy 20 — Arrow Recovery. Arrows shot by you have a higher chance of being able to be recovered.

  • Encumbrance 30 — Mighty Thews. Increased maximum stamina. This would enable haulers to sprint longer and climb higher, as well as launch more attacks.

  • Strength 40 — Heavy Lifting. Increased carrying capacity. This would bridge the logical divide between strength and encumbrance. Currently a player can be strong, but unable to carry much.


  1. Balancing existing perks.
  • Grit 30 (damage resistance) needs to be increased. As it is, it’s one of the worst level 30 perks. Last I checked it gives 6 armor. That’s only 6% damage resistance, at most! This perk needs to give something more like 15 armor.

  1. Move perks. These perks should be moved up or down, and balanced accordingly.
  • Move the Accuracy 20 perk (trick shot) into Accuracy 40. When you’re level 20, you need something that will help you survive in a concrete way. A trick shot is something you would develop after becoming a master of archery.

  • Move Grit 30 (damage resistance) down to Grit 20. This would make the damage resistance more attainable to low-leveled players, who need the damage resistance more because they haven’t built good armors yet.


  1. Remove these perks. Some of these perks are too damaging to the game systems. I don’t know exactly what should replace these, only that they have faults.
  • Encumbrance 20 (no cripple) — This prevents players from engaging in PvP. We’ve already had enough trouble with locking other players into PvP, this perk is too easily attained.

  • Strength 30 (light attack damage) — Strength itself directly increases attack damage for all kinds of melee attacks. Surely we can find something more inventive than doing the same through a perk.

  • Strength 40 (heavy attack damage) — Same as above: Strength increases attack damage already. We’d like to see something more unique.

  • Encumbrance 30 (+50% carrying capacity) — Same as above: The stat increases this already. We’d like to see something more unique.



#2

I totally agree with this


#3

Really nice post. I have some thoughts tho:
1.
Perks at level 50 are supposed to be expensive and powerfull.
We are getting more attribute bonuses on armors - that will increase diversity.
We now can have 50/20/20/10, 40/30/30, 30/30/30/20/10/5/5 and my personal favorite: 40/30/20/17/10/2/0
2. This seems to favor jacks of all trades too much and kills variety. The higher the level the better the perk should get.

  • I agree 30 agility to get dodge stamina reduction.
  • Mixed feelings. At 30 grit you are too close to no stamina consumption on hits and then sprint anyways. 6% dmg reduction seems a better stat if going 40+ grit. But that might change with dodge costs again… We shall see.
  • No, armor penetration is super powerfull, you need to be really squishy if want to go with high strength on top of that (you are still a great archer at 40 accuracy so that is not that much of an issue as one would think).
  1. Survival needs a complete redo. But I agree otherwise entirely. Tho keep the speed on resource nodes and ammount on animals.
  • meh, wouldn’t take it personally
  • I’m not an archer but trick shot is a weird perk.
  • Encumberance is for carry, grit is for stamina. I disagree.
  • My thoughts are same as above.
  1. This perk gives you 6% more effective damage reduction. It is calculated with damage coming thru so: (100% - damage reduction)*0.94 = remaining damage taken. I agree it is a bit weak and making it 8 or 10% wouldn’t hurt.
  • I wouldn’t go 40 accuracy for trick shot.
  • I think this was already mentioned. And low levels benefit from agility far greater than % effective damage reduction bonus.
  • yeah that one doesn’t work anyways and if would - would be too powerfull especially on 20.
  • it helps with curving up the damage parabola of higher levels.
  • ^ but change the description to 20% as it is now and keep it that way. Heavy attacks are slow and expensive they need a boost at some point when increasing damage.
  • lower the % and bring it to 20 encumberance, now what we need is perks for 30 and 40 encumberance replacing current ones. My suggestion: 30 enc - lower stamina loss when overencumbered, 40 enc - half falling damage (guess where to take it away from).

My 2a.m. suggestion…:

Strength
10-40 as it is now.
50 - Berserker rage! You deal more damage the less damage reduction you have. (100%-damage reduction)/4 = naked +25% damage, 70% reduction armor 7.5% damage

Agility
10 - as it is
20 - roll further
30 - roll cheaper
40 - double jump
50 - roll light regardless of armor

Vitality
10 - as it is
20 - healing items last 50% longer
30 - 10% damage reduction
40 - healing items heal 30% more (total 20 and 40 is 195% instead of 200% and over extended time)
50 - 50% chance to avoid damage when below 25% health.

Accuracy
Archery is for wimps :wink:
But seriously I think its fine as it is.

Grit
As it is but:
30 - drinks estore double thirst

Encumberance
10 - as it is
20 - carry weight increase by 30%
30 - half falling damage
40 - hard worker
50 - as it is

Survival
10 - As it is
20 - Impervious
30 - Efficient butchery
40 - As it is
50 - Antidote of one


#4

Cheers, thanks for such thorough feedback!

I fully agree with your idea for the ‘Berserker’ perk. I’d actually carry this idea forward to give the same sort of ‘class’ choice for all attributes. ‘Assassins’, ‘Tanks’, ‘Snipers’, ‘Wanderers’, etc. More robust and full packages for players who want to put 50 into a single attribute.

  • ‘Assassin’ (Agility 50) — Extra damage from behind. Poisons are more effective.
  • ‘Sniper’ (Accuracy 50) — Headshot do critical damage. Arrows have less of an arc, and give off no trails.
  • ‘Fierce Protector’ (Vitality 50) — Regain stamina while your shield is up. Shields lose less durability when hit.
  • ‘Wanderer’ (Survival 50) — Climbing doesn’t drain stamina.
  • ‘Warmaster’ (Encumbrance 50) — Up to 5 thralls may follow you.

Here’s my ideas on the general perk ‘tiers’:

10 - ‘Everybody’ perks. Mostly everybody will want to eventually get this perk as they level up. A good example is Grit 10 (climbing). A bad example is Survival 10 (eating raw human flesh). What if I don’t want to be a cannibal? I can’t put more than 10 points in Survival, I guess…

20 - ‘Playstyle’ perks. People who are interested in a certain playstyle will pick this perk. A good example is Vitality 20 (temperature resistance). Another good example is Agility 20 (half fall damage). A poor example is Trick Shot (Accuracy 20). These should be perks that you use on a regular basis, which give you direct and passive benefits.

30 - ‘Core’ perks. These are the best perks to get — the main goal for most players as they level. Get to 30, then start another attribute track. For instance, Encumbrance 30 (pack mule) gives a huge boost to encumbrance, which should be ample carrying capacity for most players. Players can get to 30 in about 3 attributes at most.

40 - ‘Expert’ perks. Players might get one single perk to 40, and so the perks at this level should represent mastery over a certain area. You might be a master archer, or a master fighter. You might be especially tanky, or have the ability to survive despite overwhelming odds. You might even be a master builder, or a master thief. You are an expert at one attribute, while also being worse at others.

50 - ‘Mix-max’ perks. These perks require players to be deprived of most other attributes. They should make up for this by being massive, game-changing perks. By getting these perks, you are essentially changing how the game is played. For instance, at Accuracy 50 (headshots), you become a sniper, rather than a barbarian. At strength 50, you become a ‘Blood-mad Berserker’. I’d like to see even more variation, and even more power to the min-max perks. It should be a big deal when you identify an opposing player as being of a specific min-max build. “There’s the tank! There’s the sniper/assassin!” kind of thing.


#5

No to all of those “class choice” ideas,

Assassin- There is practically no situation where flanking is possible
Sniper- arrows have an arc for tracking purposes, its for the archer not so much the target.
Fierce protector- We need less cowering behind shields, this just promotes unhealthy gameplay.
Wanderer- climbing is already very OP in terms of raiding
Warmaster- They do need to introduce some form of npc aide in raiding but I don’t think it should be possible on-demand. Attacking players in pvp would be very annoying with 5 guards following them. If the intended purpose is for pack mule they just need to introduce them as many have suggested to be at player speed for that purpose. They already have mounts, its just a loading issue for fast speed mounts.

OP has some neat ideas, they do need to remove traits that do the same benefit the traitline does. It’s repetitive and should do something more inventive.


#6

Yes, I can see the merit of perks doing something inventive rather than fixing the curve.

More ideas :

Strength

  • armor penetration
  • chance to knockdown
  • less stamina use on heavy attacks
  • double status effects per swing

Agility

  • chance to avoid damage
  • roll bonuses
  • MOAR roll bonuses!
  • negating armor weight effects (heavy->medium->light)
  • bonuses vs traps

Vitality

  • resistance to explosions/fire
  • bonuses to armor durability

Grit

  • double hits (chance based ofc)
  • 75% reduction on light swings (and you know why…)

[joke]
Archery
10 - chance to break bow
20 - chance to shoot himself in the knee and gain cripple and guard duty
30 - chance to shoot off middle and index finger so no longer able to use bow or flip frenchmen off
40 - chance to shoot himself in the forhead, constantly loose 80% hp and become a unicorn
50 - shoot a bracelet off the hand and recreate character
[/joke]


#7

They seriously need to revamp this whole attribute/perk system

First question: “What makes up a good attribute system as far as attainable values go?”

Simple

Take the minimum and max value of an attribute, and make it so that the average value can be reached by EVERY stat.

In this case, players SHOULD be able to obtain a rating of 25 in EVERY attribute. This currently isnt even CLOSE to possible.

Second question: “What should the adverse effects of raising one attribute be to the other attributes?”

Again, simple.

Raising ONE attribute, should cause the player to have to equally lower ONE other attribute. Bumping one attribute to max, should cause ONE other attribute to drop the same value in reverse. IE: Raising ONE attribute to 50, should mean lowering ONE other attribute to 1 (or 0). Its a POINT for POINT concept. (and yes, the player should be able to split those points between multiple attributes, just as long as they subtract the same number of points tha they raised)

These are the simple mechanics and balance understandings of an attribute system for the last 40+ years in games across the board. Players should be able to reach a rating of 25 in EVERY attribute at max level with the points the get from leveling. If the player wishes to increase the value of one beyond that, they will have to decrease one (or more) attributes for the same total value that they increased the one. Examples:

Average: Total value 175 points

STR - 25
AGI - 25
VIT - 25
ACC - 25
GRT - 25
ENC - 25
SUR - 25

1 high, 1 low - Total value 175 points

STR - 50
AGI - 0 (or 1, whatever the lowest is)
VIT - 25
ACC - 25
GRT - 25
ENC - 25
SUR - 25

Mix and Match - Total Value 175 points

STR - 40
AGI - 20
VIT - 40
ACC - 5
GRT - 30
ENC - 20
SUR - 20

With the addition of Perks, this becomes even MORE important. Why have perks if no one every can obtain the ones at 50 (or even 40). Why make content and mechanics that 99% of the time wont ever get used or seen? Obtaining ONE level 50 perk means excluding nearly 70% of ALL the other perks in the game. How is that fun?

With the current system, to obtain ONE level 50 perk, it would look like this:

STR - 50
AGI - 10
VIT - 15
ACC - 5
GRT - 5
ENC - 10
SUR - 10

How dull, boring and pointless.

Also, a huge balance and design flaw around perks - The more points you spend in a single attribute, the total, fewer perks you get overall. Raising ONE stat to 50 means you will only have 9 total possible perks. Going with a more low average attribute point spread (20s and 30s), you can end up with 14 total perks. Its just downright broken.


#8

Agree with this model totally.

You should be able to become mediocre at all stats or specialize in something at the equal cost of another stat or spread across the rest.

As it stands now. You need strength and vitality due to being ambushed by creatures. Plus you need to survive.

As a result I am personally forgoing archery agility and encumbrance just so a pair of rocknoses don’t kill me.

The balance is to far in favour of running away from danger instead of facing it head on.

Survival vs enjoyment of the game.
Enjoyment is losing.


#9