I don’t think it gives users an advantage exactly, especially given that we can all use this strategy freely. Functionally in PVP body vaulting serves as a sort of insurance, which is IMO encouraged by offline meta and the need to totally wipe when a group does raid ( largely caused by said meta).
The reason I think this is an issue of greater concern is that now, with server transfer, body vaulting further removes the meta’s relationship with “actual” PVP. Meaning players can, and should, have body vault insurance on dead servers - pulling resources from the vaults and moving them to active servers for use.
PVP is becoming, at least in theory, a more and more complex game of optimization of the systems with obvious holes to abuse. Maybe there’s not enough of the “power players” left to reek havoc with these systems, time will tell. It is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain a position that official PVP is a core concern for FC - again IMO.
Yeah I think that’s optimistic. I think you’ll see inter server clans stake out the dead servers for a home base. Then transfer out as raiding parties to wipe a server clean and hoard the loot. When tired they funnel the loot back to their home base server. The only hope for those of us that solo or are small is that this will drive these competition in these large clans and the battle stops happening in the typical zones of play as these guys will raid and bash on each other.
So except for merely personal or clan glory should you even fight player vs player on pvp servers ? It used to be for control for servers and loot which could work hand in hand. Now you can again just sock away stuff on other servers to be delivered like a pizza , though, only 7 days . The 7 day rule can be quickly made meaningless with having 7 or more body vaults so one is always at the ready for your needs .
Server control no longer is important really wtih bving along with server transferring . I made another thread: [Suggestion][Officials Usable][PC, All Consoles][PvP (PvE?)] Transfer Portal Fatigue ,about possible costs being added to server transferred characters in the form of debuffs and/or other weakenings, but few had a comment on the subject. We don’t need sorcery in one form as we just use bodys as item store that don’t decay (necromancy at its finest folks).
I don’t think you guys are taking this seriously. You’re trying to argue nuance and aggregates and averages and what-ifs, when the logic is supposed to be dirt-simple: an exploit is an exploit, right?
You can’t hunt down the Sleeper. You might be able to hunt down Sleeper’s mates, but the crux of the issue with body vaulting is that the Sleeper isn’t in the world. You can’t access the Sleeper’s inventory, you can’t kill the Sleeper, the Sleeper is safe and sound and beyond your reach. The Sleeper is the vault you can’t raid.
Before the mesh protection was implemented, everyone could undermesh freely. Before the fence foundation stacking was removed, everyone could stack fence foundations. “Everyone can do it” is not a counterargument to “this is an exploit”.
The very definition of an exploit, according to Funcom, is that you use something in an unintended way and it gives you an advantage over those who don’t.
True, but that doesn’t matter. It’s a game mechanic that wasn’t intended to be used as an unraidable vault. Having unraidable vault on a PVP server is an unfair advantage.
That’s a question of intentions. As people who argued for removal of fence foundation stacking already established, motives and intentions don’t matter, context doesn’t matter, because “an exploit is an exploit”. If it can be abused, it shouldn’t be in the game. Right, @Nemisis?
I think maybe where I see this differently is that there is nothing stopping people from not doing it (like a rule against it). Has FC said body vaulting is an exploit as opposed to emergent gameplay? They don’t police it or have it in the TOS that I am aware of.
Without that context, I don’t know if it can fairly be dubbed as an exploit, merely an optimization - even if unintended.
While I agree “everyone can do this” isn’t a counter to “this is an exploit” necessarily, I am only using it to call into question the truthfulness of “this is an exploit”. Unless FC gives us a ruling on it specifically, I’m hesitant to equate not intended and advantageous to automatically an exploit - but that could just be me.
To be more clear on my positioning; I think pre transfers body vaulting was less of a big deal because it’s problems were isolated to specific servers. I also don’t care if it’s removed. I’m not sure it’s necessarily an exploit just because it’s unintended by FC.
It’s not just you. I know I used to think like that, and bring up emergent gameplay, too. Here’s the thing, though, Funcom’s definition of exploit is in the ToS, and it looks like this:
On top of that, you have people arguing that any technique that can be abused should be removed even if it has legitimate uses.
One example where we’ve had that discussion recently is the advanced building technique that allows placing fence foundations close to each other. That technique can be used for decorative purposes, but it’s most often abused to stack fence foundations in depth on a PVP server.
The argument from the PVP abusers of that technique was that if you can abuse it, then it shouldn’t be in the game, because an exploit is an exploit and it doesn’t matter if you can use it in a way that doesn’t negatively impact anyone else’s experience in the game.
And Funcom agrees with them, because the TestLive build 2.8 now removed that technique. Obviously, I’m salty about Funcom yet again siding with the specific subset of PVP players that refuses to take responsibility for their own choice to abuse a technique – and I’m not even going to try to hide how salty I am about it – so now I want raise awareness of this whole argument that “an exploit is an exploit” and “if I can abuse it, nobody should be able to use it”.
Let’s see if more people – especially PVP players – are going to tell abusers to shut up if it’s something they care about, rather than some niche PVE concern.
I see, I’ve been silently observing that discussion to some degree (busy holidays). FC capitulating to “what” players are doing as opposed to “why” is a failure on their part IMO. Builders losing tools because players can’t control themselves and FC cant find a favorable meta is disappointing to say the least.
Everything is an exploit these days but theres things on official servers you have to take into consideration.
People spend hundreds of hours farming bases. items, thralls on officials. What happens Chinese hackers turn up on your server. Are you supposed to just report and wait it out hoping they get banned before your base gets wiped and you lose your hundreds of hours of work?
In a perfect world where people couldn’t hack in conan exiles it’d be a lot easier to say body vaulting is bad but considering chinese go from server to server wiping them with hacks especially on the OCE AND EU servers (I play EU) I can’t really say body vaulting is bad right now.
Had a base in the Deserters Gutter get wiped from the outside by chinese placing bombs through the mesh anywhere they liked into our base. While that’s a thing I can’t get behind people saying body vaults are bad.
I understand toxic player use body vault as a way to get put but I prefer that over your own built base being report by toxic players just to win. In short, at least the base that was made was not destroyed by godly intervention or insided. I rather deal with toxic players that body vault over everything else.
In my scenario, which is reality, we have Sleepers who emerge on the reg. That means by the time we discover they’ve gone dormant we have x days to get to their bodies and take their loot before the thing vanishes. We have chosen not to do this in all but extreme cases.
Well, I hope on the dead siptah server I was on they don’t hunt me. I got a body vault going on day 2. And Noone to double check. So I guess I’ll know the day i decide to return to Conan, if ever. Update 2.8 is scaring me that my three years of hope will end like my marriage did, me in a bad mood.
From my experience fighting hackers I can say that the only thing chinese hackers have that no other has is magnit hak (hitting from a distance and looting closed vaults). Speedhack is owned by hackers from all over the world and dropping bombs inside a base is not even a hack as such, they do it with a free program and I have seen european cheaters using it as well.
If that switchlag were patched at last, it could be played on certain bases that being small (I suppose you could not be banned for building) they would be irraidables without this “hack”.
I think the Body Vault issue is not current: in my opinion the people who complain about this are people who want to “keep the peace” on a server where they have been playing for a long time. Basically they are scared by the possibility that one day a clan may appear from nowhere with everything they need to make war and they cannot control and wipe them before they have grown up. But for that right now there are several problems: the tryhard pvers know how to lvl up to 60 in less than 1 day, also with the transfer they can bring a T4 armorer + T4 blacksmith and few more resources they need to start the war from day 2 or 3 at the latest (they can have secondary accounts ONLY for the transfer and thus simply stock up on servers that want to wipe), so with or without body vault no one is safe.
So no reason not to remove it then. Just delete all items on or kill the character who stays offline 7 just before they would disappear.
We used to call this desert patrol, as in you were scouting around looking for them to send them back to the desert that way you know what direction they were coming from. Never good to have them come back in force with a ton of stuff from behind.
Yes it is wrong but those toxic players are what killing the pvp aspect. Especially funcom does not inform you why you are suspended and cannot dispute it before it causes clan harm. There are several tickets I made that support say excessive when I only showed thrall count…not even related to the rules themselves on land claim with or without purpose. Land claim is suppose to have purpose but yet there no definition on what is consider excessive or they never been in a war before in pvp servers.
I play fair for three years and seen and dealt with crazy cheaters without funcom doing anything even if I make a ticket.
Those issues are more important to deal with then body vault issue. The other issues make the game unplayable.
I know if I get ban/suspended I would stop playing.