Exploring the world is not roleplay. Neither is learning the lore, or anything. It only becomes roleplay when you interact with other players as your character.
And if you have multiple religions, how exactly is Funcom supposed to only leave you with the one you want, and convert all those others to zeal? It’s still not fair.
If a player has spent dozens of hours, or more, farming for a particular religion, you are basically stealing all that hard work away from them, all because you want to inflict RP logic onto a game that isn’t about roleplay in the first place. It just has the option for RP, and that isn’t the primary focus.
If this is forced on the player base, what next in the name of RP?
Only being allowed a single type of weapon, because it’s not RP-compatible to know how to fight with any weapon type you want?
Stripping away the ability to respec your character, because it’s not RP-appropriate to have a magic potion that resets your life so you can change the things you learned?
Then we can always strip away the player’s ability to carry inhuman amounts of weight. Because that isn’t RP-appropriate either.
Once begun, it wouldn’t end. It should be up to each player whether he has more than one religion. Not for anyone else to push on us.
I’m not necessarily talking about quest chains. Merely trial and error stuff would suffice. Each action of ours brings us closer to a religion being discovered and the one discovered will be the one we assimilate their personality traits from.
Edit:
I would actually delete my character to do this, if I wasn’t forced to begin with. That’s just me though. I want to experience the whole path, not just the destination.
Edit2:
If or whenever we continue to deviate from our discovered religion long enough, we of course discover another deity to worship. What comes from a spark, becomes and ember, from ember to flame and into a firegod.
But that wouldn’t be good either. Because then we are being forced into playing the game a specific way, which may be against how we want to play the game.
And if we end up playing how we want to, we are always going to be locked into a specific religion because of this.
This concept makes more sense in D&D where the gods demand a specific type of worship to serve them. You have to follow whatever the principles are for that particular deity.
It doesn’t work in Conan because as far as I know, these gods don’t give a damn how we serve them. Since most of our “worship” involves killing other people with ritualistic weapons.
And that’s fine, when it’s optional. Not when it’s being forced on you to appease the minority.
Some people don’t have a lot of time to play games. It takes them a long time to reach Level 60 and get their religion built up. They have enough trouble worrying about their base decaying. All this would do is add more hassle to their gameplay, and it’s largely a needless one.
Edit: The whole deviation thing forcing you to a different religion isn’t going to work. We have fixed altars to do things. Each one is different. If you lose one religion, Funcom would be required to add scripting to destroy that altar. Then you have to grind all over again for the materials to build a new altar.
That pushes it even more towards D&D because it makes it like we have an alignment system. And if we act a certain way, it pushes us towards whatever alignment fits that.
If a destination is what matters, the road to it doesn’t. If the road matters, the destination doesn’t. If we want a certain deity, we devote our best effort to worshipping them the way we think fits them (or we look from the Wikipedia). Players will play their style and their curiosity rewards them exactly that. If they think they should get something else than what they did, the devs are wrong only if they didn’t do their homework. Otherwise it’s the player who needs to widen their pool of perspectives. I sense no paradoxes here.
Unless…
We talk about typical game logic.
Edit:
An altar doesn’t have to break unless we want to tear them down. Merely becoming a believer doesn’t change the environment, but one’s perspective of it for starters. Until they put that belief set into action, it’s all between their ears mostly.
But again, that is D&D, that isn’t Conan.
We don’t want Exiles turning into D&D lite, because so many people are weaned on D&D as the be-all, end-all of game design.
All these deities care about is slaughter in their name. Nothing more, or less. That’s how we prove our devotion to them. It’s bloody, brutal, and Conan.
To try and enforce playstyles for specific deities is only going to harm the game, it’s not going to help it.
If I want to worship Derketo, all that should be required is either selecting it from the start, or else finding a Priest that can teach me the religion in the game, as we have been given.
I shouldn’t be required to only use specific armor or weapons, or I’m not allowed to kill certain enemies because of some silliness that they are “holy” to the faith.
Edit: It’s like saying that Night is holy to a religion, so you are supposed to only go out at night to kill. With your deviation thing, anytime they were out doing that in the daytime, they would be going against their religion.
So to stay “faithful” to the religion they wanted, they would basically sit on their thumbs all through the daylight hours, because of a meaningless restriction that punishes them for playing the game how they wish to play it.
You can’t simply sit and say that they will play how the religion requires, or else find a new religion. That is Funcom punishing players for nonsensical reasons. And that is not a good way to retain players.
I’m not talking about D&D. I’m talking about player-driven discovery thorough trial and error. D&D may take an ample from the aforementioned, but it isn’t everything D&D is.
What I simply advocate is the ability to do more than just pick a number. I would like to find the numbers, thorough my own actions (with the added chance to cross paths with a teacher who allows me to take a shortcut). This way I feel an actual connection to my deity coz I found my path back to her. If she would betray me, I would have a chance to find another.
This isn’t about forcing playstyles, but on contrary to allow players dictate their own way to self-discovery. If the path is what they value, that will provide. If the destination matters, that will provide as well. If both the path and destination matter, this provides as well like the others do. The current deities might seem too similar, but similarities wouldn’t dictate their discovery. It’s the slightest of deviations that make the difference. After all, the deities aren’t really different in action. Only the mere image and model make them separable so the path to their discovery would lie in the making of yourself into their image (your style bestows you your true name).
Edit:
In other words, the style we all share isn’t what brings us closer to the deities. None of them have the monopoly over existence. It’s the small details we enact on the side that matters; for the purpose.
Edit2:
To be a bit more accurate, current deity framework in CE actually leans toward D&D than what I advocate. The only difference between CE and D&D is the embracing part. In CE the embracing part is purely RP based while D&D takes the personalities further into the framework. What I advocate here is the opposite of both the current CE and D&D embracing methods. I advocate discovery-on-the-go approach. This way we can still acquire all religions (find the teachers as well, if we so wish), but we aren’t merely limited to act out the embrace part. We would be able to also tap our own real dominant personality traits and reflect those to the game to see what comes from them. If we somehow don’t like the result, we can take another route or find a teacher willing to shape our mindset to our liking.
TL;DR
Essentially it’s the same religion system in place, but with added flavour. It would be great if we could at least skip the religion part of the character creation cross and find our calling on the go (if we so wish).
There are PVP fans who play differently than PVE players and and RP’ers and Non-RP’ers, but everyone wants to get on here and demand changes for their play-style inconsiderate of the other styles.
I realize that it would be too much for FC to keep up with to make different game builds for each style - so that is why these kinds of requests can be handled on PRIVATE servers.
My private server is a good example, we have some who like PvP and some who like PVE and some that lean more towards RP because of our fantastic buildings and others who just want hang…there are good private servers out there for just about ANY flavor of Conan game-play (modded and not).
@Fable
But that is already in the game. If you want you can choose to “discover” the priests in the game that teach you the religion.
You are 100% free to play your deity how you wish. You’ve always had that option. Why should Funcom devote resources such as time, effort, and money, into making some sort of official thing for this?
If you want to be able to discover your religion, what stops you from selecting no religion at the beginning, and then working towards that religion on your own when you are in the game, using the appropriate religious trainer when you feel the time is right to fully join that religion.
@croozi
The problem is mostly that roleplayers are constantly demanding roleplaying changes made into the game. And the changes themselves are unnecessary.
Roleplaying is a state of mind, but they think they need mechanics in the game to actually make it work. Like they need a mechanic to “imprison” another roleplayer they capture. Instead of just building a roleplay prison in which the other player goes into as both are doing their RP thing.
I don’t see it that way, because I’ve been RPing in games for around 20 years now, and playing RPGs in general for 30. So to me, it’s about doing things in your mind, when the engine you are using has limitations that don’t allow for it to be present beyond your words and actions.
Some of the best RP comes from you and your character. Not enforced limitations or mechanics.
I mean, in game terms, we don’t have blood sacrifice, yet. Should that stop you from RPing it? Of course not. Slaughter an NPC in combat, RP harvesting their blood. Use that blood to make a potion (ie, craft an Elixir of Might and say it’s the blood potion), or else mix it into paint (Warpaint-strength), and then you can RP that your blood sacrifice stole the victim’s strength and gave it to you.
No reason to come on the forums to harass Funcom for not giving you something, when you can do it for yourself, with a little creativity and existing mechanics.
Some wanted named placeables of their “victims”, and used RP as a reason. So right there, you take the Skulltaker feat, craft an impaled skull. Stick it somewhere and post a sign beside it with the victim’s name. (As someone else posted that they have done.)
No reason for Funcom to waste the energy coding in something to do this, when we can do it ourselves with a little imagination.
So one thing I want to bring up is that Howards writings have people worshiping multiple deities. With the exception of Mitra who is a bit of a one god to rule them all kind of dude, the rest of the cultures believed in multiple deities all at once.
Picts generally worshiped Jhebal while the Shemites and Vendhyans had many many gods they followed.
Even Stygians didnt just worship Set but also Derketo. (Spelling might be a little off considering there was another name for Derketo)
Conan mentioned Crom as curse words but ofter dealt with Mitra. Hense the Phoenix Engraved sword given to him by Epimetrious. And Epimetrious was always talking about Ishtars ivory blossoms.
So I feel like having multiple religions is completely viable. In fact it is very fitting within Conan’s lore.
If we wanted to make this roleplaying it would be racially locked.
Everyone would just play a Vendyan or a Shemite as they could freely worship many deities.
Or pict if they wanted Jhebal Sag.
But. You dont have to have more than one. Or if you choose Crom you can have none at all.
The freedome is yours. Religion in this game is tackled very well. Becauee you dont have to partake in it past the initial character creation.
I think the complaint is more that while a RP individual might limit themselves to one and get benefits from that, a PvP individual will pick multiple ones that provide them the most benefit.
And so the RPer feels that the PvPer gets an unfair advantage.
But as a Vendhyan myself (in game) would I not just RP that I could worship all religions? Then the RP element is purely a construct of interpretation.
RP is great. But it’s also as fickle as PVP.
I can easily RP my characters herritage and their worship of multiple God’s. And I can make it make sense just by my race alone.
I think its detrimental to change a working mechanic in favor of RP just as I am nerfing weapons and items in favor of PVP. Also I am againt the opposition against balance to cater to PVE.
Yeah, the fact that people can worship multiple deities in the true Conan works, shows that Funcom are doing a fine job. It’s just the players that don’t really understand what Conan is, and are pushing for it to be changed into something it’s not, to fit their desires.
Discovering the message and discovering a messenger have two different contexts. I’d like to discover the message, not the messenger.
After I’ve acquired one, true to some extent (this isn’t exactly Reus either). However, what I would do with an avatar might be somewhat different than how I would like to obtain a religion, so this isn’t exactly about wielding an avatar (although more variety wouldn’t be a bad thing).
Integrity, passion, ambition, devotion, money, time, fame and continuity comes to mind. I don’t think there are a lot of options how to make the game more fluent and balanced, so here’s just one of them. It’s not a huge variable when it comes to balance, but it is huge for the longevity and humouring.
I am not allowed to begin without one; meaning a clean slate. Technically the devs force us to pick one. The one in question just comes without benefits, but it’s still a religion.
Finding out how to make fire yourself is a different enough experience than when you are taught by a teacher. First mentioned is about getting into the unknown, discovering all the related danger and bliss in action by ourselves as the teacher, while the latter means the unknown is brought to us (sometimes in a package with a ribbon on it). It’s a shortcut in a way, although one could still be used to affirm the requirements if needed. Meaning that a priest could still be mandatory, if the deeds are too similar and the differences aren’t something the devs are willing to embrace further. In other words, after we do the deeds, we bring the results to the priest we want to baptise us and accept the ritual to proceed. Until the requirements are met, priests of that house won’t baptise us.
However, I’d personally like to be my own priest and thus discover the religion myself. Hence the idea. Also, I think the priest who tries to serve me is really a heretic in disguise. I don’t trust their rituals. LOL
I don’t think that’d really work out. For you to discover a religion would imply having to find some sort of lore items that teach about the religion. To start you on the path.
Funcom would have to institute some sort of quest system, regardless, because you’d have to register finding the lore pieces or whatever to show that you are learning the religion.
It just seems like way too much hassle, with very little reward out of it. Players aren’t going to want to have to slog all over the Exiled Lands, digging up information on the religions they wish to pursue.
Why bother, when you could just go find a priest and join the religion outright?
And really, why should you have any requirements to join a religion?
It just seems like Funcom has a lot of other things they can be working on that impact the game in more meaningful ways, than something like this.
More content, such as dungeons, armors, weapons, more pets, etc.
Since in the majority of cases with this sort of religious thing, players are going to ignore it and go straight to the priest they want to learn from.
Climbing in some places is bugged and you let go for no reason. Mostly on the ruins of the giant kings scattered threw the world but also on some of the different rock faces. You need to really explore the world to see it.
I see the idea of only having one active religion and being able to change it only once as being punitive to solo players or small clans in multiplayer servers.
An active clan of 6 players can have all 6 religions at any time with no penalty.
Just going to state for the record it’s why I suggested that this was a server setting that could be turned on and off based off personal preference not to systematically force and or change how offical and private servers work. Nothing wrong with actually enjoying the world of conan for its actual depth within lore, an other aspects while this is Survival most people who DON’T play on PvP such as PvE and PvC would and most likely want to enjoy these kind of things for the game while others don’t and they don’t have to take part in the aspects of this on PvP as some don’t have Avatars even active on there Private servers. All aspects once more should be server setting choices for a greater experience and realm of options provide the best possible experience for each person’s person preference. However I like all the suggestions and debates on this subject.
My current theory is that Jhebbal Sag is the only deity who’s actually “there” in the context of the weird pocket world that is the Exiled Lands. Somehow this primal deity is able to reach out and touch the inhabitants of the Exiled Lands in a more personal way than the others.
The other gods aren’t “there”. Like Conan tells us, the gods in the Exiled Lands are not the gods of the outside world, but rather expressions of what we want the gods to be in the harsh land - weapons. We created the gods of the Exiled Lands in the image of the gods we remember from our homelands.
The Outcast of Ymir even speculates that the Exiled Lands aren’t real at all. So it makes sense that the gods are not real either. Is the Midnight Grove an actual place, or is it just a spiritual journey represented by a wild and forbidding primordial forest? (Well, yes, we can pick up loot and bring it outside the Grove, but is any of that any more real than the Grove if the whole Exiled Lands is just a dream?)
When we remove our bracelet and cross the cursewall, why can’t our pets follow us? Animals don’t wear bracelets, after all. Maybe it’s because they were only a dream and crossing the cursewall represents us waking up.
It starts with a moment of fundamental enlightenment (or culminates to this, that is). This is not a vampire you’ve witnessed to die from garlic, cross and a stake combination (although an actual combination we do need).
To find a religion, one needs to build a strong connection. This can be done by any means. A mere branch or a bush will do (item doesn’t matter, but its behaviour does). It’s about the path, i.e. set of actions done in conjunction. Religion gives an answer to a set of issues laid to your path (reason you do those actions) and it is the culmination point of understanding how to deal with those issues or alleviate them. Hence the action combination set that forms a road map to the religion.
Merely the registry. The rest is already there I believe (at least significant amount).
Current system feels exactly alike (too much hassle for a mere weapon exchange). If they put enough effort to the details in the design phase though, we wouldn’t be here discussing about it.
That’s exactly what I think about recipes. This is why sufficient enough biometrics should be involved. With proper biometrics in place, there would be no slogging and actual thirst for exploration takes place whenever seen personally necessary. We would feel out things more instead than merely seek out data.
Personal choice. Either you take a shortcut, feel good, or you create one yourself and feel blessed. Because the religions don’t feel personal enough, they are merely seen as platforms for weapons. With their own actions, this way one would create their own emotional trail to them and later on find rival priests doing their gospels (maybe challenge them as well or join them).
Also, I wager that the priests were introduced for players to get the related Journey steps done. Thus they aren’t so much about the collecting part. This is just a bonus they offer on the side. Of course players are going to see that bonus as the main thing, not the steps.
Without the flames there’s no fire god. I’m talking about fundamental subconsciounal steps, not actual requirements or criterias or quotas of today. The road to epiphany. Surely one can just go for a priest and deal with it that way, if they wanted to, but does it really feel like an achievement? To me it feels like a shortcut and I’d rather take the scenic route.
Our style is just a trampoline to the flames and therefore to the fire god. Image provides the deity that fits our description of need. Same thing with everything else; the items, the landscape, the dungeons et cetera.
At least it may seem so. Perhaps they do. There’s always a variable that seemingly has to surpass another, but the surpassed ones shouldn’t be forgotten coz usually it’s one of those little surpassed details that end up keeping up the mood (absence makes the deepest crack).
From which Jhebbal Sag has the dungeon, the items, the religion et cetera. Religion in a way is a glue between components. Without it the items are just items and the grind is just a materialistic grind. Compared to the rest, Jhebbal Sag is the one who blesses the most. Not the mere materialistic rewards, but an actual destiny.
I don’t ask for rewards at this point. I merely advocate a relatively small tweak to the game (albeit perhaps long coding hours) that ends up changing the whole approach in a fundamentally huge way. Something that allows us to feel actual connection to whatever we aim at.
Efficiency issues can be tweaked if need be. However, I don’t think this would be an issue. It’s okay to go to a priest if you are troubled (if you know what a priest is), but knowingly finding a solution from one implies of a different context. Hence I don’t think the ignorance issue is relevant, or at least it has little to no effect to actual fluidity of pace. Some players would ignore, but that’s because they are there efficiency first to begin with and none of us can change that for them nor should we.
However, if efficiency becomes a balance issue (coz it could in a way), to push the breakpoint farther I’d suggest that the priests wouldn’t simply appear before the first personal religion is found. This reflects and emphasises the starting setup we already have in place. If the breakpoint is too far (which it isn’t), let Conan behave like the “first priest”, have him introduce us to the world of Crom and then we continue from there. Since Crom doesn’t do anything, it’s the perfect first-step religion (a trampoline) to introduce us the many. However, this might not suit some of us here so we may just scratch this already at this point.
The reason the current level of a breakpoint isn’t an issue is because the first priest closest to us would be already an issue. The reason we are allowed to pick a religion is to avoid making the priest at the desert a balance issue. Thus the idea to prevent priests from spawning before we find our own religion first. They could have some actual requirements too, but I don’t think this is a necessity. An option, yes, but not a necessity.
Perhaps. Then again it’s their hole they dug for themselves. I’m just suggesting they try to get out of there.
