So I play with a group of friends, 12 has been the most we’ve had people online. One thing that kinda irks me is how easy respeccing is. The Yellow Lotus Potion is still available and is very easy to make. The would-be replacers, Potion of Natural Learning and Potion of Bestial Memory, are a little bit harder to make but you can still easily stock up the supplies for making dozens of them when you need.
Personally I really enjoy seeing our characters being built differently from each other. I like the compromise of someone being more effective at resource gathering; and someone else being more effective at fighting. But since respeccing is so easy, some players in our group will simply respec their attributes when they are planning to go for a harvesting spree. Then when we’re going to hit a dungeon or two, they again quickly respect for combat.
I don’t think it’s a good thing that players can respec so easily. It makes the builds less diverse and meaningful.
I propose that one, respeccing requires an item that is moderately hard to get. It could be a rare drop from some monsters or perhaps found from loot chests. I don’t think it’s a good thing that you can quickly farm the resources for dozens of respec potions.
And two, there be a configurable (maybe 48h is a good default?) limit to how often a character can respec.
I think with these two changes, builds would matter more and the gameplay would thus feel more diverse and interesting when playing as a group.
I don’t know if the lotus potion serves a function in the lore, but it definitely serves a function in game mechanics. If a respec potion wasn’t so cheap, think of how many people would discard their characters because they don’t like the stats. It gives you the chance to experiment and fine tune your character to the exact specs you want without any real risk. IMO, it increases the diversity because it allows you to sample all the flavors until you’ve decided which one you like best. The 2 new potions do cost more, and I believe that’s meant to be the price you pay for having the convenience to only change your feats, or only change your attributes while leaving the other intact. And I think the extremely cheap cost of the yellow lotus potion is also a deliberate maneuver from the devs, meaning they want it to be easy to accomplish.
Respec potions are great for me. I play solo in official servers and do not want to join any clan. So to do all by myself, the only way is to respec when needed.
It gives you the chance to experiment and fine tune your character to the exact specs you want without any real risk. IMO, it increases the diversity because it allows you to sample all the flavors until you’ve decided which one you like best.
Well, the problem I see is that you can change your specs on a short notice too easily and that makes builds less diverse; since you don’t need to stick to a build for any meaningful time. You can, quite easily even, change your attributes between every time you leave your base, if you wanted to do that. Once you get used to clicking the attributes in, it doesn’t really even take much any time.
I think players would still be able to experiment if they could respec less often. They would just be less likely to habitually change the spec depending on what they are planning to do next. If the player felt that they can’t experiment enough if they could respect only say, once every 24h or 48h, they could still just go to singleplayer like drachenfeles says and use admin commands to try anything out.
I get where you’re coming from, when I started out I had a couple of friends start at the same time and thought it would be nice if we all took on different roles. That idea didn’t last long, we weren’t always able to be on at the same time and the need for one of us to re-spec and fill the place of the missing player became more frequent. If you are joining friends and are all happy to take on specific roles within the clan then you can simply agree to not keep re-specing.
Yellow lotus potions are ok as they are, changing them would be a huge problem for the game.
I used to think like you, but now that I play from more time and I have a better understanding of the game, I’m 100% convinced that this system is ok and doesn’t need changes
I agree completely, this is one of the things i really dislike about this game.
Respec is fine, but as you said, it’s so easy, way too easy. There has to be a higher cost and, imo it should be found in the archives, not by default, same as all the lotus potions.
And again: Why is it a problem that respeccing is easy? If you don’t want to respecc to often just don’t do it! No one forces you to use the potion.
Why is it a problem what other players do? The potions have short timers so abuse in pvp is impossible. Thats the only thing that matters.
Does locking a character to a stat profile or creating a new and rare bottleneck for changing stats add any real value? Does changing specs present a game play problem other than it seems easy?
From my perspective there are basically two builds:
Farming / Building
Combat
Maybe there is no need for a farming / building discipline and simply change the mechanics and rework the perks and wholly focus on Combat since 50 pts in Encumbrance is simply a must to farm and build effectively. I’m not advocating for making farming/building harder; but I am pointing out that there could be solutions that normalize farming and building across the board while maintaining the current speed of a full Enc build, which may or may not involve perks at all. Why even lock that game play behind stats and make it part of your baseline game play starting at level 1. You could even scale a farming mechanic to level so its normalized as you level up.
With that said, there are many variations of these disciplines and many avenues to explore stat wise. So I would contend that builds wouldn’t be less diverse, but more diverse because of the ability to change stats when a player fancies it. If there is a certain meta because 2H Swords are more OP currently, then most folks would make cookie cutter builds from a youtube guide towards Strength and Heavy armor (if players were stuck with your stat decisions permanently or for a very long time - most players would want to optimize). If that meta were to change you would have a lot of unhappy players that are stuck in a build because they’ve either removed potions, are have had a terrible luck with RNG, and lets’ face it, anything rare in this game is SUPER rare and takes hours/days/weeks in some cases, to grind. All for one item. It seems wholly unnecessary to me.
This brings me to my next point, you could advocate for a slightly more involved potion recipe, but that would most likely be categorized as easy too, considering Bestial potions already do include the hardest to farm components in the game. And it’s really not that hard to make once you’ve ‘tamed the exile lands’. You could remove Yellow Lotus potions altogether and rely on a more involved recipes, but that puts new players at a disadvantage and who may be stat locked until 60ish by virtue of the difficulty it takes to farm raw ash, demon blood, etc for new players using stone tools. So that type of solution only slows down brand new players and changing the new player experience, possibly to a negative one.
Unless there is an absolutely game breaking reason and we need stricter controls to force players into a stat locked environment, I would recommend to keep or tweak the current system - but in my opinion, it’s fine as is. The perception of something being too easy is just a perception, especially when it’s a mechanic that serves a specific purpose to allow customizing your character should you feel like building or fighting. If you want to argue removing potions to make your stat decisions more meaningful, I would justify that reasoning with why it would make for a better game to force players into a focused build. You should consider Solo, PVE, & PVP when making this argument. Solo and small groups of players would be the hardest hit with this type of change.
IMO there already is. Bearer thralls. I run a general purpose build that’s 30/70 heavier on the combat side. I’ve played around with different stats, and I really don’t like other variations. Min Maxing is not for me, at all. Maybe it holds me back in some of the boss fights, but I don’t care. I like my GP build.
I agree with that, I’ve never felt the need to max any att, especially not encumberance, a T3/T4 bearer and horse combination does the job for me. I only use yellow lotus when I want to equip Thralls with weapons that I didn’t learn the feats for.
I would love to see something like a supply depot where bearer thralls or something like a supply runner that moves between a farming site and the depot dropping off materials. It would be cool if depots could then be accessed at range when building. It is a bit ridiculous that you can basically hold the equivalent of a castle on yourself in an Enc build. Would be an interesting dimension, for someone like me who considers himself a builder, to have a supply chain and logistical decisions to make when farming, managing materials, and ultimately tile placement.
I don’t want to remove the potions from the game, i just think it should be more difficult to obtain them, seriously, 10 yellow lotus flowers can be obtained in the newbie river without looking for them, they should cost at least a fragment of power or they should have a cooldown before being able to respec again.
This kind of mechanics are fine, having opportunitty to try different builds and prepare for the activity you want to do by respec the stats is good for the player experience. They should cost the player something though, right now they are practically free, and yest they can be abused.
I only use them to get the journal step, later than that i rather not respec, even when i’m gathering materials i don’t use the 5th encumbrance perk, which btw shouldn’t exist in my, it seems, unpoppular opinion, but that’s me.
It’s not about being forced to respec, but it’s easyness and little cost for it’s high value, i think it should demand more from the player if it’s really necessary to respec.
First off, I usually don’t post on topics such as these…My own preference,
Second, I have only ever used a respec once…_same stats now as before.
For months now, I have read posts that state a player shouldn’t be aloud to do this, a player shouldn’t be aloud to do that, most recently was a player shouldn’t be aloud to stand above an enemy and “kite” them. Statements like this have a tendancy to change this game.
I use an axe and shield, walk/run during exploration/harvesting, and do not use the admin table. I prefer to play the game as if it were real. I do not go around saying that you (as a community) should play the same way…why? Because it would be an obtuse (in EVERY sence of the word) request. There are diverse players/people/playstyles.
If a player “chooses” to play differently than you…SO WHAT. If it is detrimental to others, then yes, it should be looked into, if it is not detrimental, then it should be of no concern to you.
I disagree with this for a number of reasons. The first is that I (much like Ragnaguard and others Im sure) am very limited in the amount of time I get to play each week. I am generally limited to a couple of hours on saturday and a couple of hours on sunday; and that is on a good week! This would restrict many peoples freedom to play the game the way they choose. We shouldnt have to allocate one weekend for one each build type.
The second is that newer players who can not yet harvest Fragments would be severely disadvantaged. Especially when we consider their limited pool of Feat points. When we are new, we invest Feat points into certain items which are generally only needeed as a one off investment (eg-a Tannery, a Furnace, furniture, grinder) but do not have needed recipes attached to them. We then respec to regain the few points we have so that we may redistribute them elsewhere in weapon, tool and armor options for example. This will only further handicap new players, and as other members have already pointed out, online solo players too.
I like to have options and choose my own playstyle. The option which presents more options is usually the better option. If you would prefer to play with respecing handicaps, then you are already free to do so using a self-imposed respec limit. Sorry, but its a no from me.
It’s a game primarily designed for playing with others. So of course it matters what others do. I think it’d be more interesting if the players in our group stuck to a role for a while, instead of respeccing as needed.
Being able to respec less easily is not the same as “locking”.
Or less diverse, as players could just right away pick that one meta build for a specific situation every time.
I’m not sure where this permanent or very long time -idea comes from again. I think the longest respec cooldown I suggested was 48 hours.
Can make it a boss drop or add a chance for the drop.
I don’t think anyone suggested that so maybe we can stop with these strawmen?
Not a very solid argument IMO for a game that is primarily designed to be played in groups. Also a degree of difficulty and challenge brings longevity to games, that’s why many easy tactics like the current thrall balance or mounted combat are spoken against.
But in my view, the ease of respeccing actually limits choices that player needs to make. It also kinda makes players in a group differ less from each other.
Also works the other way around. If you’re a solo player, you’re free to use the admin panel to give yourself a respec potion.
I still don’t understand why you desire so much this change, I mean, you don’t like the easy respec, but what is worsening your experience? The feel that it’s too easy to change?
What would happen if potions changed? It wouldn’t change just a “feel” for the others, but a lot of REAL things.
There is no real reason to change it, you didn’t have one, you just said: “it shouldn’t be so easy” but why? Because at moment there are just a looot of reasons why it shouldn’t change. If you play in a PVP server you should know that this game is already really hardcore without having to modify these things
The fact that it makes it feel like builds aren’t an investment insomuch as they are just a thing you pick up according to the situation. I prefer games like this to have people invest a bit into their builds and I prefer that there’s diversity to how players have their characters built. It’s really fun to play in a group where someone is e.g. better at harvesting because they like to build a lot, or someone does a lot of damage because they wanted to max their strength… Now that doesn’t really matter; players can just change their spec according to what they want to do.
Usually these type of games either don’t have respeccing (e.g. Project Zomboid) or it’s harder to get (e.g. 7 Days to Die). I do think that having respec as an option is a good thing for this game.