Rewarding Limits (for buildings and companions)

The only problem I see with all the gold :orange_square: ideas :bulb: is the Gold-vein Rocknose farms. Just place a few more Animal Pens and don’t worry about the price. Surely it could be nerfed. :nerd_face:

1 Like

In response to the recent introduction of the companion limit, I want to introduce another point of view on rewarding limits that is missing in the current situation.


:arrows_counterclockwise: Take one, give one and a half in return

When you think “reward” :gift:, you can imagine a single coupon :ticket:, not a lifetime (endless) :money_mouth_face: discount. This time I will use the example directly from Conan Exiles. Remember how companions have been upgraded? Suddenly they could gain :chart_with_upwards_trend: experience, they were given :o: perks (at 10, 15 and 20 level), they became much stronger :crossed_swords: than the previously caught companions. It was a good time :clock1: to put a hard limit on companions.

The last change just took :disappointed_relieved: something out of the game, limited the players. If something came along with that to make up for the loss, I would feel like I got an in-game gift, as if I was being rewarded. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: Because you can take / limit something, if you can do something in return, and if you can do something extra, you become Santa Claus :santa: and not a tax collector. :money_with_wings:

:cake: What was missing?

With the introduction of companion limits, I’d like to see :eyes: them introduce, for example:

  • Additional development tree for companions;
    • or changing perks they have earned - which was as often suggested as the companion limit;
    • or additional (epic) levels (20+) for companions - increasing only for killing bosses and players.
  • Being able to command more companions :woman_artist: :man_mechanic: :horse: :man_farmer: :wolf: at the same time - that would definitely help solo players;
    • or more command options (gather resources :herb:, patrol the area, repeat animation :dancer:).
  • Introducing the possibility of hiding some companions (for example into a garrison), such companions would not really exist on the map, they would only be data (level, statistics and equipment) hidden in a container. These companions could only be summoned for limited :hourglass: time, or swapped with another companion who is currently on guard somewhere.
  • I wish that some companions could summon minions :smiling_imp: :imp: during the fight (which would increase the number of wariors for the fight time only).
2 Likes

While I would like to see some things done to make companions more customizable, choosing certain skills and abilities and so on. Right now companions are so overpowered I feel like adding more to them just increases the fact that I already feel like I’m playing some kind of Pokemon game.

I mean, seriously, the amount of damage they can dish out and take compared to my own is so lopsided that I’m wondering who the hero and who the thrall really is.

2 Likes

I think :thinking: the current companion limit, maybe it’s just a test:

  1. If accepted well, builds will get the same limit system. :neutral_face:
  2. If not taken well, the build will get a similar but better thought-out limit system. :relieved:
  3. If taken very badly, the limit could even be removed and we’ll all be back to square one. :scream:

I would not like to insist that we change the current form of the game and go back to the start with option 3. Let’s consider how to join the current limit system instead of fighting it.

I only see one option. Let’s combine the hard limit with rewarding :gift_heart: players!

It would be enough to increase the current limit of companions and reward those who stick to the smaller number. The same could be done with the building limit.


You don’t have to look :eyes: at the rewards I propose in the first post. It is mainly about the approach itself to rewarding, for sticking to the rules of the game, and to act in the interests of everyone, not just your own. This should be rewarded, and the game itself can do it if a proper system or loop is created.


:pencil2: Edit: Mostly adding emoticons. :crazy_face:

I would really love to listen your thoughts about the issues that cause overbuild , please , thank you

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Well this is one of the discussion I tried to start privately with @Multigun about a new mod ,even if I am in consoles and I don’t play mods :rofl::rofl::rofl: . I believe that we could have an option of building limit that would be controlled by the religion teacher of the area , for example to the starting River it would be Nunu . In every area we decided to build, if we reached the specific amount then we had to go and pay a price to continue building , yet if we didn’t pay then we had either to face Nunu or a random purge raid that it won’t had a trigger timer . If we defeated Nunu then we would had a week of immunity , but the next week we would have no option to fight him again , the raid purges will take action witch by accident would start when we took a little distance from our house , at this time we would not be able to use map rooms . This raid purges would happen by dragons , 3 head bosses Berserkers and Skelos cultists (Spinas etc…). So no matter what ,you would have some DMG :wink: .
The greater your base was ,the biggest fee you should pay on the teacher and ofcurse his hp pool would go insanely bigger so facing him should be difficult :wink: .
My dear @fito , sorry for off topic , it’s just a conversation lead that @NeoTheMatrix triggered on me , thank you .

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If I could propose to limit something :bomb: extra :boom: (in addition to building pieces, companions and maybe slots for space in the containers). I would definitely limit light sources.

For me, it happens very often that a completed building becomes unplayable when I hang too many lamps and :fire: torches. I just wish the game would limit it automatically. And it’s not just about limiting the number of objects to be placed, but about how many of the closest light sources are turned on.
Everyone could set it :level_slider: according to their own preferences in the options menu :heavy_heart_exclamation:

1 Like

It is because of such cool :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: contests that we should have a building limit that does not limit players from building large structures.

There should be some limitation, but it should allow even the boldest of structures to be built. A simple building element limit (similar to the current companions limit) would be a shot :bow_and_arrow: to the knee :leg:.

Also take a look :eyes: at the previous competitions. Would they even take place if there was a hard limit?

Even a competition for tiny houses. In order to build anything, the owner would have to demolish part of his base to participate in the competition. Or he would have to start the game on a new server (from scratch). Because some people just want to build on official servers so that other players can see :star_struck: the competition entries.

3 Likes

I want to add something to the topic at the same time and simplify it.


The whole idea :bulb: was to reward players for sticking :tongue: to the limits

It’s best to give some kind of encouragement. Let’s say a player could choose one bonus when creating a character. During the game, player could change bonus after drinking a special potion :beer: (similar to how skill reset works).

There could be many bonuses (and they could be related to the character's race).
  • Increase player melee damage ( Hyborian )
  • Increase climbing / walking / swimming speed ( Cimmerian )
  • Longer control over the avatar ( Stygian )
  • Increase crafting speed ( Tribal Himelian )
  • Increase player defence ( Hyrkanian/Turanian )
  • Increase companions ranged damage ( Khitan )
  • Increase companions defence ( Kushite )
  • Increase companions melee damage ( Nordheimer )
  • Reduced crafting costs ( Pict )
  • Increase player ranged damage ( Shemite )
  • Increase mount speed ( Darfari )
  • More durable / stronger buildings ( Vendhyan )
  • Increased encumbrance / lifting capacity ( Zamorian )
  • More durable / stronger equipment ( Zingaran )

:information_source: Info: From time to time there are requests to add character classes, or to make a race choice matter, that’s exactly what I suggest. Two things in one. :two_hearts:

During the game, while the player places new building :european_castle: pieces, companions :bearded_person: and containers :handbag: (chests / crafting stations), the bonus becomes less powerful.

More details about bonuses.
  • If a player destroys some buildings, break the bond with companion, or removes some containers, the bonus will be stronger again.
  • In full force, the bonus should double the selected benefit. :arrow_double_up:
    • For example: Selecting ‘Increase player melee damage’ doubles the player’s melee damage.
  • The bonuses should only work while the player is online (so that players do not change their bonus to more durable buildings every time they log out).
  • If the player exceeds a certain quantity limit (too many buildings / companions / containers), the bonus will drop to zero. :zero:
    • Crossing the limit does not mean that the player can no longer place new things, player loses the bonus only.

Note / Edit

:memo: Note: What should be the limit and how much each building piece / companion / container will weaken the bonus, I will write in the next post. I will calculate it more precisely and more realistically than last time. You will wait a few days for this - I have a lot to check and calculate.
:pencil2: Edit: Adding :information_source: info, plus icons. :sunglasses:

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Explanation :clipboard:

Each placed building piece, companion or container reduces the class bonus by a certain percentage
(it should be visible during the game).

Ideally, it should also warn you when the bonus is depleted. Or at least it showed its value together with information about the change in value (in the message on the right).


I chose for topic that the standard player’s goal would be to keep the benefit at 50% bonus.

As a database I took: the previously calculated minimum 370 building elements; the current limit of companions (65 for a single player); I added together all the slots for the vast majority of furniture (workstations and containers) plus 28x Large Chests.

I also assumed that the most important (the most expensive) are companions and equipment slots should be much less important when placing new containers.


Calculation results :abacus:

Basic Example:
When a player places 370 building pieces, 28 workstations, 28 chests, and 65 human companions (T2), he should weaken his class bonus to about 50% strength.

  • 370 building pieces x -0.050% = -18.500%
  • workstations and containers with 2375 slots x -0.004% Chest = -9.500%
  • 65 human followers (T2) x -00.334% = -21.710%

In total, the bonus was reduced by -49,710% so its strength is 50,290%.

Note: In the post above you can see what bonuses are involved.


Further explanation :psyduck:

Details...
  1. I took the number 370 building pieces because:
  1. I took the number 2375 slots from 56 objects (workstations and containers):

    • 28 Large Chest (45 slots each) have a total of 1260 slots (one chest for each workstation present below)
    • 28 workstations have 1115 slots in total:
      • Altar of Zath (100 slots), Armored Animal Pen (50), Artisan Table (30), Casting Table (40), Compost Heap (30), Dismantling Bench (40), Dryer (20) , Dyer’s Bench (40), Feed Box (35), Fermentation Barrel (20), Fluid Press (20), Garrison Armorer’s Bench (60), Garrison Blacksmith’s Bench (40), Greater Wheel of Pain (100), Grinder (20 ), Heat-Efficient Furnace (30), Improved Stove (45), Large Campfire (30), Precision Alchemist’s Bench (40), Precision Carpenter’s Bench (40), Precision Firebowl Cauldron (40), Precision Tannery (40), Saddler’s Worktable (30), Stables (30), Tanner’s Table (40), Thrall Pot (35), Tinker’s Bench (40), Torturer’s Worktable (30)
      • :page_facing_up: Note: I have not counted fish traps because with this solution, it is best to put them only when using them and leave them hidden in the container when not in use. Likewise, I did not count the beehive and objects present only in Siptah.
  2. I took the number 65 human followers because that is the current limit.


More examples :nerd_face: ( practical part of the topic ) :parachute:

370 buildings, 2375 slots, 65 followers T2 / strength of the Bonus 50.290%
  • 370 building pieces x -0.050% = -18.500%
  • 1115 workstations slots x -0.004% slots = -4.460%
  • 28 chests with 1260 slots x -0.004% per slot = -5.040%
  • 65 human followers (T2) x -00.334% = -21.710%

Total Bonus reduced by -49.710%

370 buildings, 2375 slots, 65 followers T4 / strength of the Bonus 48.730%.
  • 370 building pieces x -0.050% = -18.500%
  • 1115 workstations slots x -0.004% per slots = -4.460%
  • 78 chests with 3510 slots x -0.004% per slot = -14.040%
  • 65 human followers (T4) x -00.358% = -23.270%

Total Bonus reduced by -51.270%

370 buildings, 4625 slots, 65 followers T4 / strength of the Bonus 39.730%
  • 370 building pieces x -0.050% = -18.500%
  • 1115 workstations slots x -0.004% per slots = -4.460%
  • 78 chests with 3510 slots x -0.004% per slot = -14.040%
  • 65 human followers (T4) x -00.358% = -23.270%

Total Bonus reduced by -60.270%

500 buildings, 4265 slots, 70 followers T1-4 / strength of the Bonus 37.836%
  • 500 building pieces x -0.050% = -25.000%
  • 1115 workstations slots x -0.004% per slots = -4.460%
  • 70 chests with 3150 slots x -0.004% per slot = -12.600%
  • 30 animal followers (T4) x -00.219% = -6.570%
  • 30 human followers (T4) x -00.358% = -10.740%
  • 2 Sherpa (Bearer) (T4) -00.438% = -00.876%
  • 2 Elephants (T1) x -00.263% = -00.526%
  • 4 Mounts (T1) x -00.187% = -00.748%
  • 2 Entertainer (T1) x -00.322% = -00.644%

Total Bonus reduced by -62.164%

1000 buildings, 5030 slots, 100 followers T1-4 / strength of the Bonus 3.926%
  • 1000 building pieces x -0.050% = -50.000%
  • 1115 workstations slots x -0.004% per slots = -4.460%
  • 87 chests with 3915 slots x -0.004% per slot = -15.660%
  • 30 animal followers (T4) x -00.219% = -6.570%
  • 30 animal followers (T1) x -00.195% = -5.850%
  • 30 human followers (T4) x -00.358% = -10.740%
  • 2 Sherpa (Bearer) (T $) -00.438% = -00.876%
  • 2 Elephants (T1) x -00.263% = -00.526%
  • 4 Mounts (T1) x -00.187% = -00.748%
  • 2 Entertainer (T1) x -00.322% = -00.644%

Total Bonus reduced by -96.074%

250 buildings, 1565 slots, 35 followers T1-4 / strength of the Bonus 71.428%
  • 250 building pieces x -0.050% = -12.500%
  • 1115 workstations slots x -0.004% per slots = -4.460%
  • 10 chests with 450 slots x -0.004% per slot = -1.800%
  • 5 animal followers (T4) x -00.219% = -1.095%
  • 10 animal followers (T1) x -00.195% = -1.950%
  • 15 human followers (T4) x -00.358% = -5.370%
  • 1 Sherpa (Bearer) (T $) -00.438% = -00.438%
  • 1 Elephants (T1) x -00.263% = -00.263%
  • 2 Mounts (T1) x -00.187% = -00.374%
  • 1 Entertainer (T1) x -00.322% = -00.322%

Total Bonus reduced by -28.572%


Detailed list of values

Warriors, Archers, Entertainers and Sherpa (Bearers)
-- Human Archer I -00.322 %

-00.262 (base human follower)
-00.004 x12 (inventory slots)
-00.012 x1 (tier value)

-- Human Warrior II -00.334 %

-00.262 (base human follower)
-00.004 x 12 (inventory slots)
-00.012 x 2 (tier value)

-- Human Entertainer III -00.346 %

-00.262 (base human follower)
-00.004 x 12 (inventory slots)
-00.012 x 3 (tier value)

-- Human Warrior IV -00.358 %

-00.262 (base human follower)
-00.004 x 12 (inventory slots)
-00.012 x 4 (tier value)

-- Human Sherpa (Bearer) I -00.342 %

-00.262 (base human follower)
-00.004 x17 (inventory slots)
-00.012 x1 (tier value)

-- Human Sherpa (Bearer) II -00.374 %

-00.262 (base human follower)
-00.004 x22 (inventory slots)
-00.012 x2 (tier value)

-- Human Sherpa (Bearer) III -00.406 %

-00.262 (base human follower)
-00.004 x27 (inventory slots)
-00.012 x3 (tier value)

-- Human Sherpa (Bearer) IV -00.438 %

-00.262 (base human follower)
-00.004 x32 (inventory slots)
-00.012 x4 (tier value)

Animals and Mounts
-- Animal I -00.183 %

-00.131 (base animal follower)
-00.004 x10 (inventory slots)
-00.012 x1 (tier value)

-- Animal II -00.195 %

-00.131 (base animal follower)
-00.004 x10 (inventory slots)
-00.012 x2 (tier value)

-- Animal III -00.207 %

-00.131 (base animal follower)
-00.004 x10 (inventory slots)
-00.012 x3 (tier value)

-- Animal IV -00.219 %

-00.131 (base animal follower)
-00.004 x10 (inventory slots)
-00.012 x4 (tier value)

-- Camel / Elephant I -00.263 %

-00.131 (base animal follower)
-00.004 x30 (inventory slots)
-00.012 x1 (tier value)

-- Greater Elephant IV -00.299 %

-00.131 (base animal follower)
-00.004 x30 (inventory slots)
-00.012 x4 (tier value)

-- Horse / Rhinoceros I -00.187 %

-00.131 (base animal follower)
-00.004 x11 (inventory slots)
-00.012 x1 (tier value)

Workshops and other containers (-00.004 per slot)

– Workstations

  • Altar of Zath (100 slots) -00.400 %
  • Armored Animal Pen (50 slots) -00.200 %
  • Artisan Table (30 slots) -00.120 %
  • Casting Table (40 slots) -00.160 %
  • Compost Heap (30 slots) -00.120 %
  • Dismantling Bench (40 slots) -00.160 %
  • Dryer (20 slots) -00.080 %
  • Dyer’s Bench (40 slots) -00.160 %
  • Feed Box (35 slots) -00.140 %
  • Fermentation Barrel (20 slots) -00.080 %
  • Fluid Press (20 slots) -00.080 %
  • Garrison Armorer’s Bench (60 slots) -00.240 %
  • Garrison Blacksmith’s Bench (40 slots) -00.160 %
  • Greater Wheel of Pain (100 slots) -00.400 %
  • Grinder (20 slots) -00.080 %
  • Heat-Efficient Furnace (30 slots) -00.120 %
  • Improved Stove (45 slots) -00.180 %
  • Large Campfire (30 slots) -00.120 %
  • Precision Alchemist’s Bench (40 slots) -00.160 %
  • Precision Carpenter’s Bench (40 slots) -00.160 %
  • Precision Firebowl Cauldron (40 slots) -00.160 %
  • Precision Tannery (40 slots) -00.160 %
  • Saddler’s Worktable (30 slots) -00.120 %
  • Stables (30 slots) -00.120 %
  • Tanner’s Table (40 slots) -00.160 %
  • Thrall Pot (35 slots) -00.140 %
  • Tinker’s Bench (40 slots) -00.160 %
  • Torturer’s Worktable (30 slots) -00.120 %

– Not included in basic example

  • Convergence Trap (15 slots) -00.060 %
  • Delving Bench (200 slots) -00.800 %
  • Fish Trap (5 slots) -00.020 %
  • Improved Beehive (10 slots) -00.040 %
  • Improved Planter (30 slots) -00.120 %
  • Improved Fish Trap (10 slots) -00.040 %
  • Improved Shellfish Trap (10 slots) -00.040 %
  • Shellfish Trap (5 slots) -00.020 %
  • Small Animal Pen (6 slots) -00.024 %

– Containers

  • Cupboard (45 slots) -00.180 %
  • Improved Preservation Box (40 slots) -00.160 %
  • Large Chest (45 slots) -00.180 %
  • Large Crate (50 slots) -00.200 %
  • Vault (300 slots) -01.200 %

Edits / Notes

:memo: Note: I will improve the text formatting / add screenshot for the next few days.
:memo: Note 2: When I finish formatting, I will write in the next post, how it should work with clans and I will discuss the actual hard cap. :sweat:
:pencil2: Edit: Screenshot added :camera_flash:

2 Likes

Summarize what I wrote earlier:

  • The player chooses a bonus (character class / race) when creating a character.
    • The bonus only works when the player is online.
  • At the beginning of the game (when player has nothing) the bonus is 100% effective.
  • Each placed building piece, companion / pet or container reduces the effectiveness of the bonus.
    • Removal of any of these elements restores the effectiveness of the bonus.

What about the Clans in the game? :sunglasses: :yum: :sneezing_face:

Different from what was done with the companions limit in the game now, where a full clan (10 players) passively increases the limit. I would like to see the benefits only when the clan members are online (active). Clan size would not increase your ability to build more buildings or have more companions.

  • When more than one clan member is present (online) at the same time, the class bonus increases its effectiveness by 5% for each player.
    • In other words, the bonus gets its own bonus. :crazy_face:
Let's take the examples:
  1. A large base: 1000 building pieces, 5030 chest slots, 100 followers with base Bonus 3.926%

    • If 1 player is online the effectiveness of the Bonus will be: 3.926% (3.926% + 0%)
    • If 2 players are online the effectiveness of the Bonus will be: 4.3186% (3.926% + 10%)
    • If 3 players are online the effectiveness of the Bonus will be: 4.5149% (3.926% + 15%)
    • If 5 players are online the effectiveness of the Bonus will be: 4.9075% (3.926% + 25%)
    • If 6 players are online the effectiveness of the Bonus will be: 5.1038% (3.926% + 30%)
    • If 10 players are online the effectiveness of the Bonus will be: 5.889% (3.926% + 50%)
  2. A smal base: 250 building pieces, 1565 chest slots, 35 followers with base Bonus 71.428%

    • If 1 player is online the effectiveness of the Bonus will be: 71.428% (71.428% + 0%)
    • If 2 players are online the effectiveness of the Bonus will be: 78.5708% (71.428% + 10%)
    • If 3 players are online the effectiveness of the Bonus will be: 82.1422% (71.428% + 15%)
    • If 5 players are online the effectiveness of the Bonus will be: 89.285% (71.428% + 25%)
    • If 6 players are online the effectiveness of the Bonus will be: 92.8564% (71.428% + 30%)
    • If 10 players are online the effectiveness of the Bonus will be: 107.142% (71.428% + 50%)

In this case, the game will reward you for playing together and for active cooperation. Having members just logging in to renew the decay timer will be much less valuable. Players will organize the clan structure and their game time to play with other people.

What if players have the same bonus selected that affects the entire clan?

Suppose two players selected the same bonus that increases the strength of the clan’s companions. Bonuses shouldn’t stack. If these people play at the same time, it is better if they have different bonuses (this will be more effective). However, if they play at different times of the day, it doesn’t matter (the bonus only works when the player is online).


Hard limits, limits, limits… :cold_face:

The game developers are actively looking for ways to increase the smoothness and performance of the game. This means that there will definitely be some hard limit some day. There is no escaping it.

If I had to add a limit to what I propose, I would do it like this:
  • When a player placed something, the effectiveness of the bonus decreases (minimally to 0%).
    • Once the bonus reaches 0%, the player is still allowed to place something more.
      • The effectiveness of the bonus could have negative values.
      • Negative values would not reduce anything for the player, it would still show an efficiency of 0% for the player. But the game could count a limit that way.
      • If invisible to the player, the negative value of the bonus effectiveness exceeds -100%, the player cannot place anything else.

Such a hard limit would allow more or less:

  • 2000 building pieces, 10060 chest slots, 200 followers T1-4 / Bonus effect 0% (-100% really)
  • (or) 1480 building pieces, 9500 chest slots, 260 followers T2-4 / Bonus effect 0% (-100% really)

:interrobang: Question: Should the mention of a hard limit be the end for this thread? Leave a comment.

1 Like

Hey, some questions need an answer, and in that case, I have to give it myself. :wink:

The topic has long expressed what I wanted to convey :relieved: and rewarded me :gift: a lot. This week was the anniversary of the third month after the thread was created, has also been viewed a thousand times and got a fiftieth like - all this week :star_struck:

Thank you very much to everyone for your comments and your hearts :heart:

I just want to reward :gift_heart: you too.
Within the next few days I will give back each like :+1: out of pure love :heart_eyes:

This topic and your support :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: will remain in my heart :sparkling_heart: forever :pleading_face: and ever :sneezing_face:

3 Likes

Just to give you some basic input:
The whole mechanism is way too complicated for being part of the base game.

You don’t believe it? Try implementing it in a mod, and have a server play with it.
Next, observe in amazement how puzzled and frustrated the players become, even after you explained everything to them, 3 times.

1 Like

Hey you’re right, the first system I proposed was complicated. The second is a variation of the system, which is already in the game “purge bar”, only it is inverted, as you build something the bar (bonus) decreases. And you have to choose some bonus. Easy for the end user.


Note: Especially for you, this post does not contain emoticons!
Note 2: As the forum section has changed its name from Suggestions to Feedback, I doubt that I will propose any other system or idea in the coming years.

@fito , There are minds and master minds. I belong unfortunately to the minds :pensive:. Yet I believe there are a lot of master minds like you out there, my opinion is not to stop, continue, after all your efforts are outstanding and bother none. I do believe that devs are master minds too and your feedback is certainly amuse them and if they could do a like they would. I can understand that they are master minds because I play their game 2+ years and I am still learning :wink:. I can understand that they are master minds because they create a game that has no limits. @Halk just express a simple mind opinion like most of us are, which seems logical but… People walk in the moon because of master mind dreamers.
My opinion keep it going :wink:

3 Likes

They basically have the same meaning. Keep it up, your feedback is valued, and your efforts here do not go unnoticed.

3 Likes

This topic looks like an article, it seems complete and finished to me. It was very fun to think about what to write in it every week. :thought_balloon:


@stelagel @LordKAA I will write just not in Suggestions style where everything tries to get attached to one idea from the outside. I will try to Feedback by connecting the elements of the game inside. We’ll see how it works when I find an element that I can grab strongly. :muscle:

Now I am thinking of the topic in the General Discussion section. I am also waiting for a new update - bug :bug: reports will not generate themselves. Unfortunately :sweat_smile:

3 Likes

Both could be fun features. Keep up the good work.

2 Likes

A niiiiiiiice discussion post, I hope FC planners can listen to the voice of the players.

2 Likes

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