Rewarding Limits (for buildings and companions)

In Short :shorts:

Hey :wave: Below, I will present what the problem (of constantly increasing numbers of buildings and companions) is and how to encourage players to self-limit without imposing hard boundaries at all.

Simply put, it’s better to reward players for small builds than for maintenance or penalties that can affect regular or new players.


:arrow_heading_up: The Problem of Continuous Growth

Currently, players are rewarded only for increasing their army and expanding their kingdom. In three years of playing, it was easy to abuse, even accidentally (or out of boredom).:

  • Every day we play to get more companions, better ones and to feel safer or gain more prestige.
    • We catch companions if only to make them a living statue that presents new armor and has no other task.
  • We create higher walls and continuously occupy new land that has no owners for our own benefit (or to disturb others).
    • By creating a fish farm.
    • Blocking the fast travel Obelisks.
    • Enclosure of rare resources or your own base.
  • We build structures that make the game easier and easier.:
    • Infinite Maprooms.
    • Slaughterhouses for World Bosses.
  • We accelerate the arrival of the Purge by building unnecessary structures (entire cities!), and don’t waste time on cleaning up after ourselves.

We do this because the game allows us to do so, and there is no profit or reward :gift: for limiting ourselves. :eyes:


:fire: (painful) Solutions

Fees; hard number limit; increasing costs; limiting the land that can be claimed and others...

Many solutions have appeared on the forum. Such as: fees; hard number limit; increasing costs; limiting the land that can be claimed and others. Even the game developers have proposed a companion limit as a solution.

Admittedly, I would agree to any solution now, but deep down I feel that the limits are cutting the imagination of players. And I don’t want to agree to that! :hocho: :love_letter: :thermometer:

Therefore, I took some time to find a solution.


:carrot: Carrots better than a Hammer :hammer:

Players could benefit from one BUFF depending on how many companions and building elements they have.

  • A .(1-4) Someone with a small base should get a BUFF to speed up building and reduce crafting costs to quickly match the rest of the players.
  • B. (5-8) Someone with a medium base should get the best BUFF to increase army strength and building durability or extra gathering resources.
  • C. (9-12) Someone with a large base should get the same BUFF as the player with the medium base, only with a smaller percentage of it.
  • D. (12+) Someone with a very large base should not get any BUFF. The only reward in this case is having unlimited buildings and an army numbers.

:thought_balloon: Some Thoughts

See my thoughts
  • What is needed for the whole idea to work is a BUFF’s that are good enough to encourage players (who have never limited themselves) to get the rewards they provide. BUFFY should be updated with each new content (dungeon, landmass) and provide support for that content.

  • A player doesn’t have to limit himself to a medium base to get the BUFF’s from point B (5-8), player can hit point C (9-12) and will have one of them, but it won’t be that good.

  • Each stage could have more sub-stages, increasing the possible variety.

  • Tiers of companion and building element could be counted differently.


Edit / Note / Info

:memo: Note: Over time, I will describe more in detail and show that breaking this simple reward assumption into smaller stages will increase the possibilities, strategies and adapted to almost every playstyle.
:pencil2: Edit: Changed from numeric to alphabetical list (for consistency in subsequent posts).
:pencil2: Edit 2: Adding more stuff In Short :shorts:
:pencil2: Edit 3: Shrink text. :pray:

4 Likes

Such a system does not require the player to have only one base, it does not limit the space, does not require fees and does not increase building costs. The system only rewards us, not punishes us for playing.


First, let’s show players what bonus they have (only one of course).


Suppose rank 6th is to increase the strength of a structure and rank 5th is to increase the strength of your companions.

When we log out of the game, we should make sure that we leave our base at the appropriate level (for example 5th for PvE or 6th for PvP).
However, when we play, we would most like to use the companion strength BUFF.
This means that when entering the game, we should demolish something and build something when we go out. Just stick to the line between the 5th and 6th level. Theoretically, for this purpose it is enough to build / destroy one element.

If someone attacks a player (PvP) on level 6th, it will be difficult for him to destroy something, but when he finally destroys a few building elements, the BUFF will change from 6th to 5th and the army will resist the invader better - this is a hidden mechanic.

4 Likes

:male_detective: For Role Players

Probably the solution looks not realistic, but it is enough to describe it. In the previous post, I showed 14 levels (including zero and above twelfth), Each of them would have a description:

  • 0 . You are an easy prey for any exile. No one can survive long without shelter, build something.
  • 1 . The only thing you think about now is to build a shelter, it is easier for you to carry materials and you create building elements faster.
  • 2 . You have so little that you divide even the smallest amount of resources and reducing the cost of crafting.
  • 5 . Your Kingdom is prospering, small enough for you to control every aspect of it and large enough to force your will on other exiles. This is a truly the greatest power.
  • 9 . Though your Kingdom is great and mighty, corruption has seized its way into it. You control it with difficulty, force obedience to your enemies and army with a strong hand.
  • 12 . You have trouble maintaining power in your own Kingdom. Countless mouths to feed eat up supplies quickly, so you collect whatever you can to survive the dark ages ahead.
  • (Above) 12 . Your kingdom is limitless, army countless. Everything you gain from your immense power is lost before it gets to you.
4 Likes

If I were to give specific numbers to the size limits of the buildings. The size that would be enough to play.

Expand the inserted post to see the screenshots. :framed_picture: :camera_flash:


:pencil2: Edit : Shrink text. :pray:

2 Likes

I decided to add an important sentence to the first post. This is a great summary of a topic that is definitely missing here. Hope @h3rb1 doesn’t mind. As this is not an exact quote, here is the original post:


:memo: Note: I have to clean up :broom: this topic a bit and add what is still missing. :jigsaw:

2 Likes

:information_source: Notice: Below I present only examples, certainly they would not be the final values.


:bar_chart: Examples and more calculations

Click to see (out of date) calculations

If BUFFs depend on building elements and companions, then we need to unify the value to one thing. Let’s call it for example Kingdom Points.

The building components could be worth from 1 to 3 points (depending on their tier level).

Same with companions, but they should be more valuable, so I would suggest:

  • 3 per companion / pet T1
  • 6 per companion / pet T2
  • 9 per companion / pet T3
  • 12 per companion T4

Greater versions of animals could count as T3, so it would be optional to have more animals to defend buildings instead of only T4 humans.


:muscle: BUFF Level number 5

If we assume that 370 is the base number of building elements (as a reminder, the first 4 BUFFs are to support new players, the next ones are to support active players from the best one to worst).

370 * 3 (T3) = 1110 Kingdom Points

I would suggest that the optimal size of the army (warriors, archers, dancers, bareers, animals and mounts in total) for a relatively more enjoyable game will be 300 Kingdom Points.
In that case, you could have exactly:

  • 100 companions (T1), or
  • 50 companions (T2), or
  • 33 (T3) companions plus 1 (T1), or
  • 25 (T4) companions
  • or variations:
    • 50 (T1) and 25 (T2) companions
    • 15 (T4) and 10 (T3) and 5 (T2) companions
    • 10 (T4) and 20 (T3) companions

:pencil2: Note: For higher level BUFFs (weaker ones) it will be possible to have several times larger army and structures.

Summing up buildings and army 1110 + 300 = 1410 Kingdom Points, let’s equate them to 1400. :scissors:

Of course, players could use different tiers of building elements or give up several walls to use points to power the army. Or vice versa, have fewer companions to build larger structures.

If we exceed 1400 Kingdom Points, we simply get BUFF 6 (out of 12).

By evenly dividing the points into the lower BUFFs we can give you exact numbers.

  • BUFF 1. will be given with 1-280 Kingdom Points
  • BUFF 2. is 281-560 Kingdom Points
  • BUFF 3 is 561-840 Kingdom Points
  • BUFF 4. is 841-1120 Kingdom Points
  • BUFF 5 is 1121-1400 Kingdom Points

:boom: Higher Level BUFFs

In order for more people can use BUFFs, the upper limit of the last one (level 12) should be several times greater, for example 4 times. We can quickly enumerate all the BUFF limits.

  • BUFF 6. will be given with 1401-2000 Kingdom Points
  • BUFF 7. is 2001-2600 Kingdom Points
  • BUFF 8. is 2601-3200 Kingdom Points
  • BUFF 9 is 3201-3800 Kingdom Points
  • BUFF 10. is 3801-4400 Kingdom Points
  • BUFF 11. is 4401-5000 Kingdom Points
  • BUFF 12. is 5001-5600 Kingdom Points
  • No BUFFs above 5600 Kingdom Points :skull:

:mag_right: Summary

The difference between the first levels of BUFFs is 280 Kingdom Points (it’s easy to get to better BUFFs), and the difference in the higher levels is 600 points (so that as many players as possible can use the system).

The upper limit is BUFF level 12 (the weakest of them) with max of 5600 Kingdom Points, which means that players can have it with:

  • 5600 (T1) building elements (no army), or
  • 1866 (T3) building elements (no army), or
  • 1866 (T1) companions (no buildings), or
  • 466 (T4) companions (no buildings)
  • or any variations in between :fish_cake:
2 Likes

At the very beginning :baby_bottle:, I was just wondering how to solve the no build limit problem. Every way I could think of :hot_face: or read about :cold_face: on the forum has been harmful :cry: to players in some way. When I finally started figuring out how to reward :gift: players for self-limiting, I knew I needed to add companions to this topic.
But now I came up with something more! :pizza:

Although recently I play only singleplayer, I visited the official server during the 50kk Kill event. I found a lot of fish farms there and started to wonder if this problem (completely built-up rivers and water sources, through fish farms) could be solved. The answer is YES! :eyes:

Currently, there is no build limit, no limit of companions and no limit of items placed. But it’s not about the items themselves, but more about managing the place, what we store and how many workstations we have.

If we also added the amount of slots in chests (and other objects :basket: :handbag: :shopping_cart: :briefcase:) to the BUFF system, any item that could store other items would become more valuable. And having a lot of fish traps or furnace would make no sense. It would be better to only have one object (or only remove the trap when using it) to get a better BUFF in the system or have a larger army or structure instead.

It will also be pointless to keep unnecessary resources in countless chests.


Note: Since my idea includes a build, companions and slots limit, the calculations :abacus: above are not valid and I have hidden :see_no_evil: them. Only geniuses :face_with_monocle: like :+1: to read :yawning_face: so many numbers :100: without any pictures :framed_picture:.

3 Likes

Best to reward for playing the game instead of punish for it :dizzy:


Coming back to the subject of companions (and especially the introduction of the population cap), there are many ways that players don’t have to waste all the work they’ve spent collecting and training unique NPCs and pets.

Here is one of my earlier suggestions:


There are also some players who stop playing Conan Exiles for some reason, but don’t want to lose their progress, so they just renew the decay timer in the hope of getting back in the game sometime.

We should bear this in mind if any building limit is ever introduced. A counterweight to this would be something like a bank or buildings that could be packed and deployed when the player is actually playing. The point is to keep the player’s progress, no matter what is happening on the server.

Here is another one of my earlier suggestions, telling more about it:

2 Likes

I wrote about BUFFs that players could receive, but that’s not what my idea is about. :aaaaaa:

The whole idea was to reward players for sticking to the limits

What other rewards could it be? :thinking: I considered many options. Receiving BUFFs seemed like the best idea for me, so I didn’t cover all the rest of the possibilities. Let’s move on :truck: to some of them now.


Less frequent or weakening of purge.
  • :white_check_mark: the player will spend less time collecting repair resources
  • :x: the chance of unique companions will decrease
  • :x: over time, purge will no longer be a challenge, so the need to weaken it will no longer be needed
Building repair materials or currency that can be spent.
  • :white_check_mark: the player will spend less time collecting resources
  • :x: over time, the player will receive enough resources to run out of storage space and expand beyond the limit
  • :x: the player will eventually collect enough materials to cover the entire map
  • :x: if there was a special currency in the game and a place (store) where you can spend it, eventually the player will buy everything and the currency will no longer matter
Increasing decay time.
  • :white_check_mark: :x: you will be able to log in / play less often
Exclusive animations, items or effects.
  • :white_check_mark: if you stick to the limits, you can use a few additional animations
  • :x: many role-play players build more buildings to make the environment express the play, they wouldn’t be able to use these animations then :expressionless:
  • :x: if the reward is a unique hairstyle, the player could get it with a small building and after exceeding the limit, he would still have it

Edit: Writing completed :incoming_envelope:

2 Likes

While I wish there were some rewards in the game for self-limiting, there are likely to be a few small changes to the game that will improve things significantly.

Simple solutions are simply better (and cheaper). :moneybag:

2 Likes

The building system was flawed from the start. Too much freedom, no rules.
It causes lag and low fps and people mistake this for a badly optimized game.

It’s an issue that upsets alot of players and probably (I have no proof, just based on my experience on several servers I’ve played on) is the most reported issue through zendesk ticket system.

Funcom takes after Ark, and I have reason to believe that they won’t adress it just because Ark has no limit on building and still pulls hundreds of thousands of players dailly. One thing about Ark is that, the dino system creates a compromise players can live with and makes them forget the other problems the game has. When you first join a server, you can easily disregard the spam a player has because your attention is redirected to a giant dinosaur. In addition, it was one of the first popular survivals with a sandbox world, and most people are invested in the game and disregard the awful graphics, lag and other problems with ease.

Conan Exiles doesn’t offer that compromise and the building issue has become so obvious that it’s the first thing you see when you join a server. Thralls won’t make you forget that you’re neighbouring players have built a carpet over 3 square grids with sandstone foundations.

The building system will continue to be the main cause players are leaving this game. I can only make a short list of what are the reasons some of the players on the many servers I played on, left:

  • building decays and starting over feels exhaustive
  • getting raided while offline
  • being harrased with claim spam, claim block, either by wall-in, destroyed resources, overbuild
  • server lag due to overbuild
  • purge is weak. I know players who thought Conan Exiles was the type of game where you build your base and defend it. There’s nothing to defend against since it was so hard to get the purge bar filled and even then purge mobs were so weak compared to thralls. Those players got bored after a couple of weeks and left because they believed they beat the game and there was nothing else to do.

The building system needs a trip back to the drawing board and all these issues need resolving. I can’t believe so many updates were made to improve thralls when the biggest issue this game has is in fact building.

You clearly put alot of effort into this and I’ve always believed players have a more creative power than the developers because of the number of hours played. If a rework happens, I would love to see some of your ideas in there.

Best regards.

4 Likes

This topic sounds a bit like ‘reverse upkeep’. In other words you gain an over time bonus of something that reduces the larger your footprint is. Maybe it’s called ‘edge’, and maybe narratively the idea is that since you are building small you are more ‘mobile’, quicker to react to a situation. But as you build more your ‘edge’ decreases.

In general I like this idea, but I’m not sure what would be particularly useful without being too powerful. An overland travel speed bonus would be really cool, like if you haven’t been in combat for a certain amount of time time your edge increase how quickly you move. That alone would be worth it for me since it can take so freaking long to travel anywhere in this game. Maybe a structure that generates random resources over time (a salvager). Increased encumbrance perhaps (when outside of combat).

The problem is that we all like to discus the overbuild issue without discussing the issue that causes overbuild. There’s nothing else to do.

2 Likes

This is definitely my reason for leaving :sneezing_face: online servers. When the loading :arrows_counterclockwise: of the game was significantly longer, because someone built a megastructure next to me, I changed the server and losing everything (there were no character transfers - in fact it is not there yet). I’m in Singleplayer for now. :person_in_lotus_position:

Maybe this is just a guess :dizzy:, but it looks like the building system will be renewed. Many game systems have already been reworked or improved, and new ones were created. Many of the developers’ recent statements claim that they bring in ideas that they have personally always cared for and have been thinking :thought_balloon: about for a long time. As if they were racing :checkered_flag: against time :alarm_clock:, because they know that they will be redirected to another project (for example DUNE) soon. For me, the confirmation of this is that they have recently been removing (cleaning up :broom:) a lot of unused game elements and simplifying the operation of some systems. As if they were preparing the whole thing for a new team that will have to learn how to use internal systems. Of course, this is just speculation :dash:, but it means many :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: changes for Conan Exiles, so if that is true at least a bit, we will have at least some :gift_heart: big changes in the near future.

I hope so too, let me say more, a few bits of my ideas are already in the game. I will probably surprise many, but they read the forum :scream: and players’ suggestions. However, they don’t often bring any ideas one-to-one, rather they take one or two things out of the topic and mix it with what they are currently working on. Sometimes they pass the collected pieces on to another employee and completely new idea is born. :brain:

Therefore, make your suggestions :+1:, comment on others, you never know what our conversation will evolve :robot: into.

Very much this.
In February of 2017 when I first started, every server had been overrun by “lets try the game” players, who built 4x4 crackerboxes EVERYWHERE, from noob river to every spot on the current map. There was no decay back then, and a campfire took a huge amount of reserved area.

When I see Tier 3 theme parks all over noob river it makes me laugh, because these people think they are impressing new players, but are really just a major annoyance and very childish.

Nothing says “lets try another server” or “ok, I am done with this game” like trash spam and lame T3 builds all over the starting area.

4 Likes

True, the rewards (BUFFs) shouldn’t be overwhelmingly good. Although maybe they should, so that everyone would want to get one? :cup_with_straw: :thinking: :thought_balloon: :sweat_smile:
We don’t want to break the game, so you are probably right. :flushed:

Definitely good idea for one of the BUFFs. :heart:

I thought about increasing the carrying BUFF, but you gave me the idea that one of the BUFFs would speed up climbing or swimming.

Waked up with idea-
Someone somewhere, maybe even there, said somethjing about gold , like the price like the gold amount u need to pay for base daily i kinda upgraded idea

  1. the more u build the more gold need ( but this should be same amount up to 150x150 blocks, IF they all are connected ( inside conections does not count) but if u build like outpost it increase the payment )
    Example : if player build 150 x 150 = 10 gold bars in 3 days or 2 well i do idea not math
    If its clan then main bulding is same but for each player it adds up 10x10 outpost for same amouunt
    then it is like 150x150 = 10 + 1 gold, bur if in clan there is 1 player only then its something around 10+10 gold in day

  2. if this come true, then there wont be possible to gather gold probably so i suggest add ‘‘market’’
    Example: whole new item animated like delving bench but textured like actual merch stand, the ‘‘chest’’ works like - Never takes damage and cost 0 gold bars ( and has 7 day decay timer as it is now) basically owner places items in it with 100% dur , and sets price in gold or bars how much the item cost, so buyer can place amount in workstation(chest) and then pick up item …

this is kinda my idea how it can work out…

2 Likes

The only problem I see with all the gold :orange_square: ideas :bulb: is the Gold-vein Rocknose farms. Just place a few more Animal Pens and don’t worry about the price. Surely it could be nerfed. :nerd_face:

1 Like

In response to the recent introduction of the companion limit, I want to introduce another point of view on rewarding limits that is missing in the current situation.


:arrows_counterclockwise: Take one, give one and a half in return

When you think “reward” :gift:, you can imagine a single coupon :ticket:, not a lifetime (endless) :money_mouth_face: discount. This time I will use the example directly from Conan Exiles. Remember how companions have been upgraded? Suddenly they could gain :chart_with_upwards_trend: experience, they were given :o: perks (at 10, 15 and 20 level), they became much stronger :crossed_swords: than the previously caught companions. It was a good time :clock1: to put a hard limit on companions.

The last change just took :disappointed_relieved: something out of the game, limited the players. If something came along with that to make up for the loss, I would feel like I got an in-game gift, as if I was being rewarded. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: Because you can take / limit something, if you can do something in return, and if you can do something extra, you become Santa Claus :santa: and not a tax collector. :money_with_wings:

:cake: What was missing?

With the introduction of companion limits, I’d like to see :eyes: them introduce, for example:

  • Additional development tree for companions;
    • or changing perks they have earned - which was as often suggested as the companion limit;
    • or additional (epic) levels (20+) for companions - increasing only for killing bosses and players.
  • Being able to command more companions :woman_artist: :man_mechanic: :horse: :man_farmer: :wolf: at the same time - that would definitely help solo players;
    • or more command options (gather resources :herb:, patrol the area, repeat animation :dancer:).
  • Introducing the possibility of hiding some companions (for example into a garrison), such companions would not really exist on the map, they would only be data (level, statistics and equipment) hidden in a container. These companions could only be summoned for limited :hourglass: time, or swapped with another companion who is currently on guard somewhere.
  • I wish that some companions could summon minions :smiling_imp: :imp: during the fight (which would increase the number of wariors for the fight time only).
2 Likes

While I would like to see some things done to make companions more customizable, choosing certain skills and abilities and so on. Right now companions are so overpowered I feel like adding more to them just increases the fact that I already feel like I’m playing some kind of Pokemon game.

I mean, seriously, the amount of damage they can dish out and take compared to my own is so lopsided that I’m wondering who the hero and who the thrall really is.

2 Likes

I think :thinking: the current companion limit, maybe it’s just a test:

  1. If accepted well, builds will get the same limit system. :neutral_face:
  2. If not taken well, the build will get a similar but better thought-out limit system. :relieved:
  3. If taken very badly, the limit could even be removed and we’ll all be back to square one. :scream:

I would not like to insist that we change the current form of the game and go back to the start with option 3. Let’s consider how to join the current limit system instead of fighting it.

I only see one option. Let’s combine the hard limit with rewarding :gift_heart: players!

It would be enough to increase the current limit of companions and reward those who stick to the smaller number. The same could be done with the building limit.


You don’t have to look :eyes: at the rewards I propose in the first post. It is mainly about the approach itself to rewarding, for sticking to the rules of the game, and to act in the interests of everyone, not just your own. This should be rewarded, and the game itself can do it if a proper system or loop is created.


:pencil2: Edit: Mostly adding emoticons. :crazy_face: