Everyone can cast a vote to kick someone from the raid, no reason is needed, many do it for trolling or they are just noobs.
It is fine to kick some players from RF otherwise most of them would join and go AFK, however when kicking, the player who wants to kick another player should say the motivation, make a pop-up where you put the motivation, and the players who the kicking votes has been casted on should be able to see the name of the player who casted the vote.
Also the players should stop to click kick without even knowing the reason.
I have seen some RF with massive kicking votes to the point the RF lost so many players it failed. Now to fail a RF means to be a real sucker in this game. Regards.
I forgot to add another thing, many players just for having some fun cast a kicking vote when the boss is almost dead, so the kicked player who has been there wont get the reward. This should be fixed as well, the kicking vote is more used by trolls for funny reasons rather for the purpose of it.
Yes, a reason for vote kick should be provided, was already proposed by many people when the feature was released, it would make it a lot easier to identify troll kicks from justified kicks, often I donāt have the time to search through the name list to decide whether the kick is justified or now (clicking on the player name and then seeing him near me fighting and so on would make me click no for example).
But then again, it could also be abused to some degree, if people see āX is getting vote kicked for being AFKā many would probably click yes without really checking if it is true.
And I can totally understand why.
I myself wasted almost 1 and a half hour in there because some people kept on failing miasma and blood draw, even thought they were there not for the first time (given the fact that they had RF rings with almost all RF gems in it).
Really just need to tune down Arbanus from healing so much from blood draw spread and lower his damage 10%.
Also fix the ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā miasma bug. Put a check in to clear on death.
But yeah, the RF kick option needs some improvement. Some people just want to troll kick for no reason. Or spend the entire encounter attempting to kick someone and completely ignore the fight itself.
Yes but often the player who gets kicked for having the miasma is not the one who got it and did not run in the first place and because of a misjudgement he gets kicked. This vote kick is causing more problems than anything, we all know it happens at every RF not just this one. At the least put a fix that when the boss is below a 30% nobody can be kicked or put a cooldown btw a kick and another kick otherwise itās all a massive pop up. Or a player cannot cast more than once a kicking vote, something like that. The kicking vote system is working wilde, everybody can kick everybody without any reason, makes it fun for trolls and slows down the whole raid to the point to make it fail.
I wouldnāt say itās causing more problems than anything elseā¦ most RFs where I am in only the AFKers get kicked, I rarely see troll kicks happening but if there are trolls the kicking can sometimes start non stop which can be very annoying.
But besides that I wouldnāt say it caused more problems than good things.
I still think kick votes should be labeled as to who starts one and that the popup should be in the upper right corner so it doesnāt cover the middle of the screen while dpsing or tanking or healing or anything.
In terms of why a vote kickā¦I donāt vote yes unless there is a reason. But if someone is greyed out the entire fight and they donāt say anything in raid chat, thatās a good reason.
I agree with vote kick for AFK, not getting the mechanics of the fight (miasma or blood draw) and NOT ASKING. (But you should know the flipping mechanics of the fights before you jump into the raid.)
BUT, vote kick because someone is trolling for fun is just dumb. I have been in RF when two or three people would just go down the list of raiders doing vote kick and at the worst times in the fight.
SO:
Tell us who started the vote kick and why.
Move the vote kick window to the upper right, as Anubium suggested.
With that information we can make a better decision and like others in this thread, I almost never vote yes unless it is obvious or someone is truly AFK.
Issues over rf kick have been extensively discussed in other threads.
I still strongly disagree that the name of the person initiating the vote should be shown due to the vindictive nature of a portion of our playerbase. Who hasnāt watched weeks of abuse of players over in game actions ā¦ from the PvP trash talk to accusations of ninja-looting to plain hatred.
Adding a reason for initiating a vote kick is pointlessā¦are you really expecting a troll vote kick to state that ā¦
Reason for initiating kick: āno reason, just cause I canā
So having to add a reason just makes starting a vote kick more annoying ā¦whether it be from a set list we have to scroll through to select ā¦which would be annoying in itself in the middle of batttleā¦ to having to type a reason ā¦ even more annoying and disruptive during the fight.
I think adding a long cooldown before an individual can initiate a second vote to kick is a better approach ā¦Eg 15, 30 or 45 minutesā¦
Moving where the pop up windows for vote to retreat and vote to kick spawn on our screens OUT of the middle of the screen to one side would be a massive improvement to the RF for me. This way when they get initiated when Iām trying to concentrate on the fight I can ignore them.
Little known trickā¦for retreat spams, donāt vote on it and move it to the right upper screen: a new one will not spawn as long as you leave it open
We are in a democracy are we not? So what is the problem if player A is shown as the one casting a kick vote toward player B. If player B was AFK it was his mistake and player A did good. You go AFK you get kicked unless player B says he needs one minute away. This not showing the names causes problems because often the players start to vote to kick whoever they suspect or once they have been kicked for no reason everytime a vote to kick is casted they vote to kick.
If this topic has been discussed many times, it is probably because it is an issue and players want it to be fixed.
The problem is that people get angry and abusive about issues like this and harass players for weeks to years after the event. Sure they can take it to a petition or the new report tool but why should they be subjected to it in the first place??
15 other people in the raid instance have to agree the subject of a vote-kick needs to be removed ā¦why should the 16th person who initiated the vote be named when the rest are anonymous?? Why should the people who vote no be protected ? Why should those who donāt vote at all be protected?
For me ā¦the reason why is to minimise players targeting other players over the kick ā¦
By the way ā¦ in a democracy our votes are anonymousā¦why should the first voter ie vote kick initiator not have the same anonymity protection as the other 22 voters in the raid ā¦ (being that the 24th ā¦ the subject of the vote-kick is unaware the vote-kick has been initiated against themā¦at least it used to be you didnāt know).
I had written a long example of this but removed it from the other post.
But as the example I saw:
Player A typed into global āwhy was I kicked? I donāt even need anything from RF on this character but I was kickedā
Player B & C responded: the vote kick succeeded because you failed multiple times at keeping miasma away from the raid
Player A responded: not my fault someone spread it to me
Player B continued to respond saying it was multiple times that you failed to run away when you had it on you ā¦
Discussion descended into insults and abuse between A and B ā¦ with friends of both contributing to the conflagrationā¦
Next day ā¦ player A is typing insults towards player B
Next week: player A is typing insults towards player B
Two weeks later: player A abuses player B in chat again after rage-quitting a pug 6man they both joined because the group leader wouldnāt kick player B
A month later, player A abuses player B in chat again.
Now if player B ā¦who NEVER claimed to initiate the vote to kick but had just been a participant in the raid ā¦but probably did say yes when the vote popped up ā¦ if he had never responded he would not have had to deal with weeks of abuse from an irrational angry player.
Now people think that itās easy to deal with such harrassment ā¦think again ā¦ Iāve seen raid and group leaders driven from this game because they are unable to form or run groups when targeted by people who hate them.
As I stated earlier, this thread pops up every time T3 lower is up for raid finder, due to the low tolerance of miasma and blood draw fail. Vote kick has been a godsend to raid finder, but I doubt any changes will be made. So my suggestion for those that feel abused by getting kicked: if you are afk, expect to be kicked, if you donāt know any aspect of the fights, please ask beforehand (plenty of people will take the time to explain, but if we donāt know you donāt know the fight, we canāt help you) or research the fight outside of raid finder (ask guildies if in a guild, watch youtube videos, etc).
Ok but a miasma is RF hardly wipe the raid, is not the miasma in the real instance that really wipes the raid. There will be always problmes.
RF did good because the number of players went down, less pugs, so now we have the RF. On the same way because of the RF we do not have the same amount of pugs because nobody wastes time to make one.
It is about finding a solution that does more good and less bad. I think that showing the names and putting a limit to the number of kicks that a player can cast during an RF would sort more problems.
I tell you what, if i kick someone because he was AFK, and he goes on global to say āWho was the a* who kicked me?ā Iām gonna tell āIt was me and iāll do it again if you go AFK once moreā. I donāt see why are you afraid to see your name shown as the player who casted a vote to kick unless you are a troll who is doing it for fun.
By showing the names soon we will know who are the trolls, and the leeches, they will lose reputation and they wont last long in any RF anymore unless they start to play as they should.
We cannot deny this kicking system itās all but flawless.
@ Kwalya there is a friend that is called āignore the playerā in easy words put him in the āignore listā, problem sorted, he can insult as much he wants, he is the one who is going to look ridicule for getting mad over a kick.
Today i was kicked but i was playing a ranger, i was in a distance and i did not get the miasma, i know how these skills work, if i did get it i was still on a distance so i could not hit anybody else. I do not go AFK but still i was kicked by a troll.
This shows that also players who play by the rule and make no mistakes get kicked, i was kicked when the boss was at 2% HP left.
This has not been discussed many times because it is not about the miasma kick, it is about players who are playing good and still get kicked because trolls. Often to get an RF requires one hour, and after one hour of waiting you get kicked for no reason? I donāt have, like many i guess, time to waste after trolls who have fun by kicking players.
If I understood you correctly ā¦ during that RF you were not aware a vote-to-kick had been started against you ā¦first awareness was being kicked from raid.
To me THAT is a bigger issue than knowing who initiated the kick ā¦ that the subject of the kick should get notice that they have a vote being run against them ā¦ so they have an opportunity to show they are executing correct tactics or are not afk ā¦ or to ask āhey, am I doing something wrong?ā
Preventing individuals from activating multiple vote to kicks in a short duration would also reduce trolling vote to kick.
Increasing the number who need to vote yes would also decrease the probability of successful troll kicksā¦although already it needs 2/3 of the raid to say yes ā¦ but would not address the spam initiating which apparently has become the new way to troll ā¦ gee people are so sad they have to get amusement by annoying strangersā¦
Putting in a mechanism that if you initiate x (say 3) vote to kicks which fail then YOU get kicked would also reduce troll kicks ā¦ making it that the cowards buff that those people get is account-wide for x hours (say 30 hours account wide instead of 30 mins on that one character).
Naming and shaming means little to those who adore the attention they get by being anti-social ā¦preventing them from doing it again for a significant amount of time is probably the only deterrent.
Letās see if FC is gonna get some of these suggestions, or really these RF will be more stressfull than anything. Someone is casting a vote on you and you have no idea what is going on and you are playing perfectly, it is just a troll who voted to kick. And when the boss is close to die you will be there wishing no troll did cast a vote so you get kicked one second before the drop.
I might see three kick votes to over ten kick votes a RFā¦but just because a vote comes up doesnāt mean that 16 people say āyesā. Usually its about six to eight.
Moving the kick popup would be a great help.
I still think that labeling the kick vote would be good because then if we see that the same person keeps spamming votes (and its almost always multiple people, including main tanks), then we can vote them off the raid