Signet of Cruel Delight needs re-balancing


#21

I’d say the problem there is “different for the sake of different”, in TSW they had 5 different self-heal passives that were roughly equal given some assumptions about player stats but any weapon could slot any of the 5. In SWL there are 9 different self-heal active/passives and some are useless for soloing, some break an entire role in group content. And you’re stuck with the one your weapon went with even if it makes no sense. (like blood’s “25% of missing hp” which is strictly worse than shotgun’s “25% of total hp” no matter what, nevermind that blood already takes the most effective damage)


#22

My argument is that the E10 level missions are challenging for players who have gear at the appropriate 1000 IP level, even if they have a Signet of Cruel Delight.

Someone with max Red glyphs and a max Red Cruel Delight is overgeared for E10’s.

Even if Cruel Delight is nerfed they would still find E10’s too easy.

Instead of asking for Cruel Delight to be nerfed, they should be asking for more higher level missions: E11, E12 etc.


#23

I think 1000IP is a bad measuring factor since you can have incredible poor glyphs/signets and still reach it or glyphs on par with the rest of your gear reflecting in either better or worse performance.
And that before you figure in individuals skill and how welltuned their builds are.

I like the idea of higher modes partially…on the one hand it would give even higher players stuff to do on the other hand it would spread the elite tiers even further and their playerpool even further.

P.S.:Highest I was able to so far was just e8 which in all seriousness…was doable despite having my hitglyph to underleveled. Was it easy? Noooo…was it doable, with me paying attention and using the right abilities. Yes. Could be that e9 and e10 change my opinion but so far I fail to see what caused the failure of your e10. Not enough damage? Too much incoming? Too high healthpools? Build? Too many slipups? Before I grasp that really having a trustworthy opinion is hard.


#24

That’s certainly a point worth keeping in mind.

I personally didn’t find Into Darkness at all challenging, I did have to make sure not to pull more than four in VMC, and thought Rogue Agent was just right. I don’t have a Cruel Delight, have 1050 IP, and a really solid soloing build, for reference.


#25

This is a critical point about how many you pull at once and how well you target down each one. A tip for this is pulls as the AR mobs reverse kite. Either that or face the way you want them to run


#26

I just did all these “new” old missions e7 without this signet… and I have to say that I didn’t felt any thread from bosses. I was even too lazy to remove from AoE’s and didn’t notice any remarkable drop in my HP. They weren’t challenging at all without Cruel Delight. I did these with my Hammer/Shotty build and it seemed that Forged in Fire was enough to keep me healed… and 25% Glance Chance :stuck_out_tongue:

So why change it if they are too easy still?


#27

Or let’s not give them ideas on things that benefit players that “need” a nerf (because, given the track-record/history, that’s exactly what they’ll do) while they don’t fix the problems that actually cause players problems (see: Pain Suppression; Hell Risen scaling; a number of other issues).

Less nerfs, overall, is ideal.


#28

I’m not sure whether the OP is motivated by frustration or jealousy but aiming to nerf specifically Cruel Delight instead of any singular healing ability is kinda petty.

(spoiler : it’s not Cruel Delight carrying you through the non-existant damage of the VMC E10 “bosses”, they are just boring and could be dealt with about any other healing ability on its own. so lets nerf ALL THE HEALING ? DEAL !!!)


#29

My mention of the new scaling missions was just a bit of background to lead into my actual argument, where I illustrate, numerically, how Signet of Cruel Delight is completely out of line with other sources of self-healing.

For example, Soothing Spring would require one minute to restore over 100% health (due to its recharge time); a 3-pip weapon with “of Restoration” attachment would require 1.5 minutes. In comparison, Cruel Delight can restore over 100% health every 7 seconds, without taking up an ability slot. This is why I singled out Signet of Cruel Delight.

And to address your accusations of “frustration” or “jealousy” or pettiness, I actually use Signet of Cruel Delight, which is why I can easily see its issues. There just wasn’t a good opportunity to bring it up before, until multiple people started mentioning it in their feedback regarding the new scaling missions.


#30

Part of the problem is, not only is cruel delight broken OP, the alternatives are a complete joke.

<-- The laughing stock of SWL idiot that maxed laceration and now does unnoticeable 1% more damage instead of having a boatload selfheals.
I actually died a few times on the boss for the certified badass achieve before figuring out his gimmick of what specific song and dance is required before he is not completely immune to any and all damage with 100% uptime.


#31

ok, then for the sake of fairness, enhance the effect of other signets so they rech the performance of crule delight


#32

Laceration is actually more than 1%.

5s/15s uptime with 18.82% increase in crit damage, making it average (5/15)18.82 = 6.273 %. With 50% crit chance it’s 0.56.273% = 3.1365% damage increase on average.

Get your facts straight


#33

This is not a straight fact though. The 3.13% you just calculated isn’t the damage increase provided by Laceration, it is the additional crit coefficient which gets added to the existing one. In terms of overall damage gain, you’re looking at roughly 1.6% here (a 3.13% additive increase on the crit multiplier doesn’t ever contribute to a 3.13% OVERALL increase, no way). Also, your formatting is weird, check it out, use “x” character for the multiplication.


#34

Having just played through the first two faction missions on E10, none of the bosses or mobs do anywhere near enough damage to make the Signet of Cruel Delight “necessary” in the least–and this while using a build without any defensive cooldowns or self-healing passive abilities. Bosses tended to require 100 HPS and groups of mobs anywhere from 100 to up to 700 HPS, depending on how many of them are aggroed at once. The Venetian Missile Crisis mission in particular is designed so that you must be careful with whom you aggro, so it’s not as if even the highest HPS number I recorded was indicative of what one should expect to need in order to survive. Done right, you shouldn’t need more than half as much healing, before we consider taking options for defensive cooldowns.


#35

Singling out the Signet of Cruel Delight for a nerf is short-sighted when the entire system concerning healing and mitigation is faulty, as it has been known and discussed since as early as August 2017. The Signet of Cruel Delight may be one of the most effective and efficient means for a solo player to heal themselves, but healing and mitigation in general needs an overhaul before any kind of balance can be achieved for solo content to be challenging. Adjusting one healing signet changes almost nothing in the way of challenge when there are ample options available to choose from in its stead. It’s not as if the Signet of Cruel Delight is in any way essential for present content when, perhaps, 15 - 25% of its power is enough to get by, if even that.


#36

Lets remember how well they did the rebalancing of dungeon healing/tanking issues, and especially Hell Raised. Those were really well done jobs, so I’m confident a rebalance of Cruel Delight and other healing options will turn out well.

Oh.

Right.

That never happened.

To be serious, you’re asking for something far less important than other glaring balance issues in the game, and one that realistically would only do one thing, which is to make things take longer for people. I have CD. I spent a lot of time leveling it, and my crit rate to make it work, and that shouldn’t be overlooked either.

Would rebalancing it hurt my survivability in some situations? Probably. Would I be able to overcome it? Absolutely. But what are my options to have more survivability if CD is not enough any more? The only option is to get more self healing from passives/actives, and/or to go more tank AA. Any of these options does one notable thing, which is to lower my DPS, which means everything takes longer. I don’t like that, and that is the large complaint in the new missions. Frankly its my complaint for dungeons as well, even with sustain tanks and 4 DPS. It all takes too long.

You need a comprehensive balance pass. Just look at passives. Anima tipped bullets vs second wind vs restorative reload. Nerfing cruel delight will not improve the issue without a more comprehensive balance pass, and they haven’t done that where it is needed most glaringly, and for far longer, in dungeons.


#37

That would actually be completely ideal, and is something I’d definitely be in support of-- buffing thirst, ■■■■■■ (why is sadism censored? this makes no sense), etc, to actually make them tempting and useful.

Instead of stuff nerfed down to the lowest (for instance: I do not use AR, having sunk too much time making my pistol neck signet and pistol itself, I have no interest in redoing this. This is frustrating, since the damage ceiling I’ve seen from EFB on AR is much higher (I was lucky in EFB to pull 35-40k sustained, whereas I’ve seen AR builds that could pull 50k+), but I’ve never argued, and wouldn’t argue, to nerf it) common denominator, it’d be nicer if things were buffed to or at least close to the highest.

Even if it was within 10-15% of the effectiveness of the best in slot (which there will always be) buffing those lesser used things to competitiveness with the most used would be extremely beneficial as a whole-- both to playing as you like with less draw-backs to your group performance, as well as play satisfaction etc.

But you know about what they say with wish in one hand.


#38

I’m starting to feel like I need to add a bunch of fine print to the bottom of my original post. :thinking:

As I explained in an earlier comment, I only mentioned the new faction rank missions because feedback regarding them often mentioned Signet of Cruel Delight, and thus provided a good opportunity to bring up this topic.

I focused on Signet of Cruel Delight to bring attention to it, with the hopes that it’ll be added to the long list of things to look into when Funcom gets around to doing a balance pass, not because I think it’s the only thing which needs changing. Other issues such as sustain tanking and Hell Raised have already been discussed at length in other posts, so I’m simply adding a post for Signet of Cruel Delight.


#39

While buffing other things rather than nerfing something sounds good on the surface, what that leads to is power creep, which creates more problems. In the case Signet of Cruel Delight, if other sources of healing were to be brought up to its level, the only way to make solo content challenging would be to fill it with one-shot/instant-kill mechanics. This might actually sound like a good thing to high-skill players, but would be very punishing to casual players.

I would prefer if self-healing were to be balanced such that, a player with zero sources of healing must make zero mistakes while fighting a boss to survive; a player with one source can make one mistake, a player with two sources can make two mistakes, etc.


#40

While i have no numbers and stuff on any signets, here are my two cents on the general topic of balancing something. While nerfing something usually make players unhappy, it is often the best thing to do. Generally when you have something being OP in comparison to the rest, this item is the outlayer. When you want to balance something the best thing to do is bring the outlayers back in line with evertyhing else. Once the different options are balanced out, you can then nerf or buff them all together, to make them fit their intended purpose.

If you were to do it the other way around, you would have to Buff several items, each prolly needing a different type of buff. Once balanced they would then potentially have to nerf all of them.

Guess which order of nerf makes most people feel slighted?

So yes players will get mad their specific item got nerfed, but it is mostly the best approach to start fixing it, both from a work load perspective, and from the perspective of making least players feel nerfed.