Please Revert Damage Cancelling Aloe Heals

Ok I know I said this last time, but just one last topic. I like this games healing system. And I feel like it was in a great place prior until very recently. But it genuinely feels to me like healing has become more frustrating and less rewarding and enjoyable in the wake of Update 2.5. To clarify, this is the change I refer to:

  • Potion healing buff is now removed when non-bleed damage is received.

I wont speak for other modes here, but for a Singleplayer and Online Solo player, this has really created some balance issues. This change has made it absurdly easy for groups of enemies to cancel our heals in PvE. If you have 3-4 archers all firing at you at once, what are the odds of all 4 of them missing, when we are stuck in a slow walk drinking animation!? Buckleys. Add some 2-3 fighters into that equation and its a recipe for death.

It is now one hell of a task trying to heal up while clearing a highly populated location such as New Asgaard, the Mounds of the Dead or the Accursed Citadel. With nothing else to draw enemy aggro, this change is pushing Singleplayers and Online Solo players back closer towards thrall dependency, and that is not something I want to see make a return. Enough skill and challenge was already needed to initiate a heal during combat prior to 2.5, and if we have the tenacity to pull it off, we should keep it. I would like to request that Funcom stop damage from interrupting Aloe heals.

:warning: Note: this is not a criticism of the healing system as a whole.

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I reckon you’re like Quigley: got no use for it, but you’d prefer to know how to use it.

Have you watched any PvP videos with a successful combatant? I think you might gain a lot from how we work around the healing problem. I’m not trying to be cryptic, I simply know you can’t be swayed on this. In the meantime, some of those strategies might help you find village work more enjoyable.

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While I understand that the PVP concerns need to be addressed and am generally content to adapt my PVE combat style to the changes, I find myself in agreement with @Croms_Faithful this time. I think the change he’s referring to has taken something really fun away from the PVE combat gameplay.

Before this change, bandages were for out-of-combat healing and potions were for well-timed in-combat healing. You couldn’t just chug potions during the fight, you had to time it well, but it was feasible. The change relegated potions to out-of-combat healing for most PVE combat situations.

Yeah, I get it, you guys can probably find ways to do it in PVP, but I’m pretty sure a PVP situation does not entail having a whole freaking village chasing you. Or rather, if you’re in a PVP situation with a whole freaking village of players chasing you, you’re expected to run away, not win the fight.

For PVE it’s different. I much prefer the cinematic vibe of dodging and maneuvering so I can quaff a potion and fight on, to the whole “kill one dude, run away, heal up, come back, kill another dude” style. I like it when the game helps me feel like I’m a fierce warrior overcoming the disadvantage of being outnumbered through skill and tenacity. I don’t like it when the game makes me feel like I’m fooling an algorithm.

That said, I wanna clarify I’m just venting. I’m convinced they won’t change it back, because it’s necessary for PVP balance, such as it is. But I thought I would share why PVE was more fun before the change. The new-new healing system feels all too much like the old-old healing system. I liked the challenge of the “old-new” healing system much better.

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All other things aside it certainly makes the infused Lemurian aloe potions more desirable. Never bothered with them before but absolutely do now.

Just saying. Not taking any side on this one.

I really like the active heal system, but I don’t think it would be hurt by allowing potions to heal through other damage like they already can with bleed.

Does extreme cold or heat make them stop regeneration?

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this ain’t no land for desert princesses, go back home, crab up!

I don’t know what this means but I hope it catches on.

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It varies game to game.

MH and few others I play, It stops on damage. (thou certain effects like poison, basiclly fight it out)

Some games like Fallout 76, I can pop quantum (get 400+ hp back over 5 seconds)
Run into group of enemies and go nuts.

I find later more fun, cause then potions become prep for a fight, or a way to counter arrow/bullet spam etc. When your trying to handle a harder fight.

I can’t really speak for the system as is… there teleporting enemies, who magiclly turn a 1 v 3 into a 1 v 6. And instant trap me… no way roll, or no way get out.
It sqewing my view on healing system.

I’d much rather have some over time effect, so I can prep for the teleporting enemies…

I like system over all, but there other issues at hand messing with it.

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This is even more frustrating when your thrall is one of the people fencing you in :sob:

Sometimes it give me Skyrim flash backs

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As it would happen I have, although not for a while now. I will clarify. First I would like to state for the record that I have had numerous stints and forays on PvP on a friends Xbox. Furthermore, @SirDaveWolf has also shared a large number of videos with me via PM, which I have thoroughly enjoyed. However, these pre-date Update 2.5. If you have any you feel may be helpful, you are most welcome to upload them.

You are right, I cannot, but not for the reasons you are thinking. It is NOT because of my ego, or because I am speaking from a point of personal preference. But because for the first time since the Momentum movement update, Singleplayer mode is teetering at the point of certain locations being damn close to unwinnable for my mode, ie-Singleplayers and Online Solo being locked out of content. Please understand that PvP is not the only mode susceptible to imbalance Barnes. You want to see what Im talking about? Start a new singleplayer game (*on ps4, the controller/radial wheel is a part of this issue…), boost yourself to level 60 with some aloe potions, then drop yourself in the middle of a large city/settlement, such as the Accursed Citadel, New Asgaard or the Mounds of the Dead, and see for yourself what Im talking about in regards to trying to healing up when you have 7+ archers all firing at you and then a whole bunch of fighters on your case to boot, with no one else there to draw their aggro. Then wait and see the issue compound itself when enemies start to respawn behind you while you are in the middle of them. Go ahead.

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Here are a couple of example images of my partner trying to heal up in a group encounter yesterday.

What you are not seeing in the image is the 3 archers and multiple fighters attacking from behind her. And this was with a Thrall (who got killed).

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I’ve got to agree on the feeling ‘locked out’ (or near locked out) of certain content in singleplayer. In all honesty I’ve learned to avoid places like New Asagarth - I wind up getting most of my thralls from places like Sinners Refuge where the enemies can be broken down into smaller groups. (Summoning place is still just about ok, but that’s mostly because Darfari are weaker, so I can clear slightly larger groups than I could with Cimmerians or Nordheimers.) The change to bleed forces having to run further to access wraps and, at least on singleplayer, this can lead to problems with enemies resetting and often respawning as well.

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It’s more about the methods, specs, armours, special helmets, religious foods, special fish, special weps, powders, meat, drinks and tactics. To be completely honest, I didn’t know half of them before the Streaming Event, which as you know I thoroughly enjoyed – and invested in 5G for such a party. It was there that I got off the pot. :smiley:

Potions, that is. Hyborian Tea.

Well you see, there are ways to attack a city and there are ways to get made into an ice shard. :stuck_out_tongue:

When I attack Asagarth, I usually jump up on the circular outer wall, and use it as a walkway. Then I pull groups of enemies in behind a nearby hut. Sometimes I even use the “come hither” emote. Then, like in RP fashion once they’re around the corner, I instead turn them into future Yog meats.

I do know what you’re talking about though. On the PS4, it is exceedingly difficult to retrieve your possessions from your corpse by naked running. You need to fight your way back in, risking another kit. And I do agree with you, the batwing (controller) is the number one factor. On a keyboard/mouse setup, nude retrieval even in the heart of the city, is fairly easy.

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Thankyou for your support on this one CodeMage. In case the marking your post as a ‘Solution’ didnt give it away, I completely agree with what you have just said. And in fact it is almost as though you read my mind.

Strongly agree here. The way the healing system was before 2.5 felt all essentially perfect. Aloe for in combat heals, Wraps for cheap out of combat heals, and Food to either heal small amounts of damage or to work in conjunction, boosting the effects of Aloe and Wraps.

Healing was strategic and felt rewarding, and everything had its own clearly defined role. Now its just easier to use a potion for out of combat healing, and we are all but forced to use Vitality 5 if we want combat healing. A player should not have to sink 275 out of their 390 (70.51%) of their Attribute points into Vitality, and max it out, just to be able to reliably heal in combat.

You cant have a system where enemies have 20,000+ hp* and other mobs supporting them, while the player has only 600 hp and no reliable means to heal in combat, without playing solo becoming unviable. Something has to give.

Singleplayers paid the same amount of money for this game as online players in clans, and we should not be locked of content, treated with contempt or driven into obscurity.

Exactly. Many of them will simply clear the vilage in a group or clan assault, wherein each player will often have an assigned role, and they support each other. Singleplayers and Solo players are a one man army, we dont have this strategy to fall back on.

Exactly, Im in complete agreement again. It felt epic before 2.5, battling utilising strategic timing to overcome the odds. Now trying to heal just feels like its more heavily weighted by blind luck as opposed to strategy, or as you you said fooling an algorithm.

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The problem is further exacerbated by the leash mechanics. It’s not that the mobs return to their leash point, it’s that they heal up completely in a matter of seconds when they do. Worse, as soon as the leash kicks in, the mob will start running back and healing rapidly. Even if you manage to catch it on its way back, no amount of damage will stick or make it re-engage you in combat.

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EXACTLY! And an excellent point at that. If we have to run out of a location to heal when we get back to the forray, then the same large group or mob will still be there (or have returned) when we get back, but back to full health. Its like going back to square one but each time you do return; theres same enemies but fewer resources.

Unless I managed to miss them, there were no further gripes about the healing system before 2.5, so I dont see why they felt compelled to make this change.

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Well, healing is exactly the same as it was in 2018 with the Golden Lotus potion, just that you have a short animation now.

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While youre right to an extent AxelsAnnoying. You are right in the respect that the healing system has come full circle. But I feel that there is also a strong interplay between the healing system and other changes. For example, the first is the slow walk animation which you already pointed out (I will expand upon this later). But now we also have more mobs of enemies attacking the player at any one given time, a different stamina system with slower regeneration, and the aforementioned tethering mechanic which makes enemies RAPIDLY regain their health points if we try to disengage. We have also had nerfs to Strength and Vitality perks.

So why is the slow walk animation an issue, or in this case why do I feel it is an issue in relation to cancelling our heals? The radial wheel. Im not sure which platform you play on, but on consoles when we open the radial wheel to use a healing item, we lose the ability to dodge, to attack and to block using a shield. And each time we use an item the radial wheel auto-closes. We must then repeat the process for each additional healing item we consume. There is none of this one click auto consumes 2-3 healing items, all while you still go about your business like on PC. Now the implications for this are that this makes the window of vulnerability or defencelessness for console players balloon out from about from ~1.4 seconds with the animation on PC, to around 4-6 seconds with the radial wheel. Now factor into that equation having 7+ archers all firing at you while 3-4 fighters are also swinging at you in that 4-6 second window, and nothing else to draw enemy aggro. At least previously when we snuck a potion in that window, the effect could still work while we fought to regain ourselves. Now its just constant cancelling.

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With a keyboard tho, does not drinking a potion block out those very same things (rolling, shield, whatnot)? I play PC now and still use a ps4 controller because I’m actually faster at using the radial wheel than I ever would be shifting my hand to hit a numerical key (alternate keybinds ignored for the moment). I think the time spent in the radial wheel for me is sub half second where it would take me quite a bit longer to hit “4”. I do think tho that in pve (maybe it applies to pvp as well, not in a position to comment) wraps are wholly unnecessary as they are just so slow they are painful, so perhaps speeding up both wraps and potions might be a good thing.

In single player, having the NPCs run back to their leash point is one thing, but having their health magically heal back up to 100% does annoy me… a lot.

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