Signet of Cruel Delight needs re-balancing


#41

I really don’t think SWL’s that sort of game. Most autoattacks are not avoidable and that’s where the bulk of raw damage comes from; enemy gtaoes are more a problem for statuses.
Like, the vampire bosses in castle scenarios would need their autoattacks reduced to about 1/4 as much damage for me to survive them at-level with no self-healing, and that’d still be down to the wire whoever crits first wins.


#42

I am doing way better with them since I stopped wasting my interrupts for their aoes and using interrupts more for keeping bosses from autoattacking.
They still hit like a truck but I have enough healabilities to stomach my way through that.


#43

That’s how I’ve handled scenario bosses for a long time. Let them cast their aoe that I can walk out of. I’ll stun their attacks that actually hurt.


#44

Also if you were to buff everything up to the status of Cruel Delight you are opening a whole new can of worms as multiple sources of healing with the power of cruel delight would only lead to another form of sustain tanking.


#45

You explained it better then me. I actually didn’t read far enough ahead to catch this comment.


#46

The argument that “Cruel Delight restores over 100% health every 7 seconds” is based on a fully maxed Red Cruel Delight with fully maxed Red glyphs. A player will have spent many hundreds or thousands of hours of playing to reach this level.

It is not valid to compare this against a Soothing Spring active which costs 10 AP or a Restoration Mk III weapon which costs 500 MoF on the Auction House, and both of which can be obtained after a couple of hours of playing.

Arguing that Cruel Delight should have the same healing as a Mk III weapon is like arguing that a green Level 1 Rifle should have the same weapon power as a max Red Rifle.

If a player spends time and effort levelling up an item then they would expect that item to be a lot better.

A level 1 green Cruel Delight provides 14 Healing. A max Red Cruel Delight provides 100 times more healing.

These numbers are totally consistent with a green level 1 Rifle having 50 Weapon Power & a max Red Rifle having 5000 Weapon Power.


#47

Your argument that a max legendary Signet of Cruel Delight should be a lot better than Soothing Spring and “of Restoration” attachment, because it requires a lot more investment, is more like arguing a max legendary Signet of Laceration should provide 10 times the DPS increase of Crystallised Flame and “of Havoc” attachment, because it requires a lot more investment.

Also, your statement that a max legendary Signet of Cruel Delight provides 100 times more healing than a level 1 standard is overlooking that Cruel Delight is scaled twice by crit chance (as well as once by crit power), which is why I specifically stated its issue is its ridiculous scaling. You can refer to Thirst vs Cruel Delight at higher item levels to see how its scaling works in practice.


#48

A level 1 Green Laceration provides 0.188% bonus Crit Damage. A level 20 Red Laceration provides 100 x 0.188% = 18.82% bonus Crit Damage. This is exactly the same as a level 1 Green Cruel Delight providing 14 healing per second and a level 20 Red Laceration providing 100 x 14 = 1400 Healing per second.

Cruel Delight’s healing being increased by Crit Chance is the same as healing from healers being increased by Crit Chance, and damage from weapons being increased by Crit Chance.


#49

I disagree on that, if u use sprint 6 and use the creates and boxes to break LOS to the Mobs they spend more time repositoning themself then Shooting u. You can grab the scematics and all other needed quest items without fighting any mob at all expect the boss one with the launcher, and the trash after that.

You can Train pull the complete map and as Long as u dont get pulled out if sprint quest is over soon.
If you get pulled out of sprint and use a Speed Affix for yur weapon u can Play hide and seek with them, breaking LOS so they dont shoot and Reposition. With sword Charge or flicker you are also able to get enought room between u and the mob Train to not get shoot. They follow u like lovely puppys so u can use the Walking pattern of them to ninja trough the quest, till u hit the dude with the launcher, dont be afraid trash will stop before blue bubble.


#50

You don’t really know what is double dipping, do you? For one, the crit power scales the Cruel Delight only once, AND the crit power scaling actually doesn’t take into account weapon expertise to my knowledge.
About crit chance, the fact that the game uses crits as trigger for Cruel Delight doesn’t grant Cruel Delight an overpowered status in terms of scaling, it is just a stat that translates into chances to trigger the heal. The main advantage for crits being the trigger for CD remains in AoE situations, where the 1 trigger per second rule applies anyway. For the rest, the crit chance of the heal itself isn’t affected by weapon expertise either.

At the end, it’s definitely not a problem of “ridiculous scaling” - CD doesn’t scale twice with crit.

For comparison, double dipping on crit chance could be for instance a leech effect that healed for more on a critical hit (obviously), AND the heal itself being able to critically heal.


#51

“This content is really difficult and/or tedious unless you know one weird trick!” is bad, to be perfectly honest. Having a mechanic you’re expected to learn is one thing, not fixing issues because there’s a semi-reliable way to skip the mechanic entirely is another. I’m pretty sure Missile Crisis wasn’t designed with the intent that players would just kite the entire instance to the boss. :v:


#52

OFC not, they never intent in this game to use your understanding of the game mechanic and the mob behaviour to complete quest more efficent and less time consuming. :yum:

and why is it a wierd trick to take cover and use the envoirement to fight?
You can BTW use the gas cylinder to knock dem down and deal damage.
BTW the RocketLauncher does not trigger the gas cylinders.

but hey, yes it is the rush past the instance tip to solve the quest.
If played normal the Mobs are taxing and you should not pull to much. if, just use the envoirement to break LOS. Ofc I tried the quest normal, with fighting the stuff, and also u can pull 2 elite mercs and 2 double mob groups and still win by breaking los and keep dancing with them, if you try a shotout without moving and cover they will down you if pulled to many. Crule delight or not, if pulled too many.

But as OP said, its not about the missions its about the signet and that crule delight compared to others is to powerfull, so consider to bring the other signets to the same power output as crule delight.

If one signet is so good most consider using it, rebalance the other signets.
Dont nerfe the crule delight…


#53

Nerfing things in this game is a bad idea. As things stands you spend year leveling your gear. If something is nerfed ,And funcom usually nerf things till they are compleatly useless , you will spend year to update your gear. There is no way to transfer xp without loosing half a year of progress. In Game that was all about adaptation we now have gear stagnation. So all current builds need to remain vaible . Players spent to much time grinding for it.


#54

I totally agree with Aliera. The increased monetisation and endless grinding has meant both real time and money has been invested in gearing up. Start “nerfing” stuff and you risk players leaving rather than investing yet more time or money into rebuilding because they want to rather than having to. The nerf to fist early on is a good example of some very annoyed players just leaving.


#55

The thing is that you’re using the grind’s tedium shield to justify the lack of any rebalance, which in the long term hurts the game even more.


#56

Again ppl will be unhappy, but the outlayer tent to be a few items that are OP to the rest. The amount of work to buff everything to the level of one item would be insane. And if after the buff of the items, they find out content is now too easy? Should they buff the content? Think about how much work that would be. Time and money they could use elsewhere. Thats why you tent to see a nerf. Also players notice and remember nerfs, we have had buffs too, where the underdog was the outlayer.


#57

balance is great , but funcoms record in balancing is very poor. they nerf thing s till none use them anymore.( fist nerf in swl , anima shot nerf in tsw and many many other examples ), and with current gear grind you cant easily swap builds. so in order to balance something you need to balance everything that depend on it . we have now situation that works . making other signets better is ok . it will allow new players to have different builds . For me an idea to grind signet in same slot from green to red again is not tolerable . Its just too much .


#58

While it is possible to just ignore the mobs in the Venetian Missile Crisis entirely, my point was to describe normal play and explain how you might require more healing than Funcom would expect you to have.


#59

No, this is just you choosing what you want or remembering only nerfs for the sake of your narrative.

Anima shot nerf was one of the best nerfs to be done : it rebalanced PvP (where PvP overlords were all spamming Anima Shot, pillar licking and kiting to death, just admit it) without having impact on PvE at all (don’t tell me instant vs 1s cast is a huge nerf, the GCD is still the same).

But the most important thing is that you forgot to talk about one of their most successful rebalances : the elites. All of them except Bombardment were useless, and Do or Die was the only one to be used before that.

They did some mistakes with nerfs or ups (i’ll still never forgive them about how the killed “Fire in the Hole”), but ultimately, “trying” to rebalance properly is pretty much always better than doing nothing. It has to be done properly obviously (and not like the fist nerfs last year, that was just unprofessional).

I suggested a nerf of about 10 to 20% of the signet’s output somewhere in this thread, and then let it stay like that for a while and see how it goes.


#60

Any rebalance comes with a risk of it not being pushed enough or too much. If It doesn’t hit the mark, then it might need a nodge more in either direction. I’m sorry but i dont see past experience as an argument against what makes most sense. So lets say they went through the whole damn process of basing everything around Cruel Delight power, instead of putting Cruel Delight back in line? So they buff the other signets up. What if they find out the content isn’t strong enough then? They buff that up too. At this point Cruel Delight has been indirectly nerfed compared to the content anyways, and lets not forget they might still not hit the mark right.