T5 Rune Details

Baerron · September 5, 2020, 9:35pm

This thread’s purpose is to collect and display the t5 rune effects. Since it is hard to find those informations out there, i have collected/summarised all you need to know here.

With the introduction of the t5 raid, the t5 set piece buffs were introduced. With every additional armor pieces you got, each class gained additional effects once a certain threshold was reached. Starting from 3x to 5x to 8x piece buff.

This buff is separate to the t5 weapon buffs which you can check here if you need:
https://joharaoc.eu/t5runes

Since the t6 raid and their newer and in most cases better set pieces was introduced, the t5 set buffs were separated form their armor pieces and could now be aquired through the t5 runes. The t5 runes can be bought from the vendor in dragonspine with t5 tokens. To be able to buy the greater rune you first need to kill every t5 boss once with your character.

It is recommended to not “waste” any tokens on the lower tier runes if you have the possibility to clear the t5 raid.

The t5 rune buffs vary for each archetype and their usefulness.
The rune effects can be divided into the regarding archetypes: soldiers, healers, dps.

Soldiers get up to 2 active Buffs regarding to their stance/aura, Healers get additional effect with thier heal spells and damage classes get a chance of an additional damaging effect. As well in some cases some unique passive bonuses.

Assassine:

Barbarian:

Ranger:

Necromancer:

Demonologist:

Herald of Xotli:

Priest of Mitra:

Tempest of Set:

Bearshaman:

Guardian:

Conqueror:

Dark Templar:

Baerron · September 5, 2020, 9:35pm

here some more detailed insights to the regarding rune effects:

Conqueror:

Dark Templar:

Guardian:
guard_effects

Baerron · September 5, 2020, 10:08pm

Finesse hits are doubled in t5+t6 (possibly RF too)
Finesse hits cannot crit
Finesse hits ignore (some) shields
Finesse hits might not count towards aggro ( uncertain, if anyone knows more let us know )

As mentioned before some t5 runes are more desirable than others

Here my personal opinion of what to strive for, if you d have to choose.
The ranking takes in consideration which benefits not only the class but the whole raid the most.
It is only meant as a rough guide wether the effort to get the t5 rune is worth to you, take it as you will.
Look at it as a “what class should get the t5 rune first ranking”

Must have:

Herald of Xotli - damage and duration increase of Burn to Death dot boosts your dmg output by alot. 1x finesse hit combo

Barbarian - the increased reaver stack duration makes your life so much easier to maintain your stacks. This means you dont loose alot of damage if you have to pause for abit and continously can use your “savage fury” to buff your team. 2x finesse hit combos

Good:

Demonologist - An addtitional extra Pet as well chance for your pets to proc extra finesse hit and finesse hit on your core spells.

Guardian and Conqueror - extra passive Critigation Amount and upt to 2 active Bonus effects regarding to your aura/stance. Since Conqueror and Guardian can easily switch their stance/aura its very versatile and useful in all fights.

Assassine - debuff consuption with face stab for nice buff. 2x finesse hit combos

Ranger - advantage duration increase and 2x core finesse combos

Necromancer - critical damage increase for pestilant blast. finesse hit for core spell

Nice to have:

Pom/Tos/Bs - bonus healing and 10% Uholy/Fire/Poison Protection Buff for everyone hit by your big heal

Dark Templar - 1x finesse buff depending on which covenant active. Extra critigation amount

Note: For the Dark Templar and the non HoX/Barb classes, if you have, a Rune of the Exile in most cases just as good. As well for DT specific i think the Pet Arena Rune is on par to the t5 rune in regards of tanking if you want to safe your tokens for something else and dont have the Rune of Exile (!Arena pet Rune does not boost or give any damage, just more prot/mitigation).

Why do i rate DT as just nice to have? - You only can proc 1 finesse buff and the covenant you have active almost never matches what you need for the current situation (who uses pestilence in prot fight or even uses anything other than arms as tali dt) as well you have to use a combo you never really need in a raid (because poms debuff enemy for you and the combo is just dps loss ) and it doesnt proc a damage effect. The only really good effect is when you have a protection fight and you use covenant of invilnerability and get the extra crit buff. But for damage the rune of the exile is so much better for dt and for mitiagtion/protection you can use the arena rune which always gives you 5% protection and! mitigation at the same time as long as you use mana-/stamina pot. Which is basically 100% uptime if used correctly. Ofc if you have the opportunity to easily get tokens the t5 rune is nice to have (extra crtigation and ok finesse buffs). But if you dont i d rather use the tokens to buy the 1hb from t5 and hope for the hate necklace first before getting it. But thats just my personal opinion.

Vatoi · September 7, 2020, 5:37pm

Why there is no sin in your ranking? Assassins t5 rune works the same way as barbarian’s t5 rune. On Assassin it works great because of high % offhand rating (more than 50%) which means there’s a high chance to trigger doubled finesse hits. I tested it myself and it is way better than Exiles rune

Fireblow · September 7, 2020, 5:52pm

100% agree on this.

The free dps boost when you face stab the lethargy debuff is a nice addition.
Finesse hits being doubled in t5+t6 (I think also RF) is crazy
As you said, Assassin gets a fair amount of off hand finesse hit procs

I also think Fass is using T5 necro rune over exile, and he is by far the best necro I’ve seen so I guess you could argue it’s worth getting.

I have also done a lot of testing on T5 ranger rune vs exile on it, and since DoTs don’t crit on ranger exile does not perform as good as you might would think.
Focused Fire + T5 rune in T5+T6 is actually pretty good. Just rotate Shattering and Focused Fire instead of Fire atk. (Unless you hit like Whisperer with 7k prot and 9k armor). In the end I think in t5+t6 it parses basically more or less the same.

The demo rune by the way actually buffs your cacademon the most. The +1 pet point does not mean much, but the additional wildfire dmg on your cacademon is pretty crazy actually. And, you get a minor minor increase on the pet buff itself which is nice I guess.

Just wanted to add, finesse hits cannot crit, and they ignore shields (Chaos last boss for example, bat boss in t3,5)

Baerron · September 9, 2020, 10:02pm

Hi thanks for your feedback, but assassin is in my ranking. Its under nice to have, i just generaliesd all other dps classes as “every other class”. You might misunderstood what i wanted to say. Of course its good to have the t5 rune, because every extra damage is nice. But for barb its just such a big difference to almost never loose your really big weapon dmg boost from your stacks and for the hox the damage of your burn to death dot just gets a really huge boost ( im not even talking about the finesse hits ). Its really the passives that make the difference on those runes and those are just for some better than for others. Thats why i ranked demo as abit better as others too because the finesse hit from your pets is just such a good “passive”. And the conq guardian rune is just so versatile with useful bonuses if you can manage those effectivly. They are just abit above the other runes. As well i stated its my personal opinion in this ranking. Edited my post to make my point abit clearer

Baerron · September 9, 2020, 10:13pm

Hi, nice, thanks thats some things i didnt even know. If you guys have some more informations feel free to post it here and i try to add the useful information to my post.
And regarding the exiles rune i can just say the damage boost may be in some cases worse but not by far. And i just wanted to put it abit into perspective since t5 runes aren’t easy to come by ( sadly because its content can be regarded harder than t6 and there are just fewer opportunities to find raids or spots in core groups that can clear it ). And some poeple just have an exile rune laying around from the time when conan exiles promotion was avaiable. By all means every t5 rune is a nice bonus which i wrote as “nice to have”, which should not! be interpreted as “no need to bother”

stage · September 10, 2020, 5:51pm

The only reason to use Necro T5 in pve over exiles is if you don’t have exiles.

30 percent crit bonus dmg for 8 seconds every 20 seconds is much better then a flat 50% cbd on PB, since it affects all of your spell. Even if most necros don’t stack crit rating like they should and go for pure magic boost they still have Death god buff, so the bonus from the rune of exiles should be up and procing every time when is out of cd.

And the finess hit is a joke. If necros were getting a 1pet point like demos maybe it would be better, but not currently.

Sinix · September 10, 2020, 6:26pm

Actually exile has a cd of 30-35sec i think, either way quite a bit more than 20sec. What you’re ignoring is +6sec on PB that gives you 2 extra ice strikes that makes it actually better than exile rune.

Fireblow · September 10, 2020, 11:09pm

Depends a bit. I don’t know 100% for sure when it can “re-proc”
Duration on the buff is 8 sec, the cooldown is 25 sec. I assume it can reproc 25 sec after it times out? I think it works like that. Proccing it on a necro is no problem though. One of the easiest classes to proc it on.
Anyways, every 25 sec, and if that’s the case it’s in the middle of what both of you said. (not that important though)

But yes, if played optimal, you can squeeze in more Ice Strikes and it might parse higher than Exile. I personally haven’t looked into it much, but if I would have to guess the outcome is probably more or less the same.

Your Ice Strike (Rank 6) (Finesse) hits Straw Man for 123 frost damage.
Your Ice Strike (Rank 6) (Finesse) hits Straw Man for 122 frost damage.
Your Ice Strike (Rank 6) (Finesse) hits Straw Man for 132 frost damage.
No doubt these are very low though

Your Pestilential Blast (Rank 6) crits Straw Man for 870 unholy damage. (no rune)
Your Pestilential Blast (Rank 6) crits Straw Man for 872 unholy damage. (exile)
Your Pestilential Blast (Rank 6) crits Straw Man for 1262 unholy damage. (t5)
^Low amount of “tests” keep that in mind, but we get a picture I guess.

Not too bad, again gotta take the extra ice strikes you get into consideration too. With that being said I personally don’t know what’s the best rune for necro, but again, I do think it’s very very close, and you will not see much difference either way. AoE fights exile is probably way better though.

My original post was not really here to discuss the Necro rune though. As I’ve said I believe it’s more or less similar to exile, but if you guys think otherwise that’s fine too
The “problem” with T5 rune is that it requires you to actually spam Ice Strikes properly, and that you don’t chill your PB too early.

Sinix · September 11, 2020, 6:47am

True, the difference isn’t much especially compared with most of the other dps T5 runes.
But I’m still surprised to see the sin rune being rated at the same level as the necro and ranger ones and being under the guard, conq and demo ones

Moriala · September 11, 2020, 12:06pm

Nice initiative, hope it can help some people if they are new to t5.

I would rate the sin T5 rune up there with barb and hox no doubt, I dont really get why the list goes into detail with barb and hox but reduces the sins gain to “extra dps always good”, the points about barb and hox boils down to extra dps in the end aswell. If you want to do competetive damage amongst sins with equal skill and gear, t5 rune is a must have.

All in all good points made

Snotnose · September 11, 2020, 4:39pm

thx for inpo

Fass · September 11, 2020, 5:27pm

I favour T5 any day of the week over exile rune on my necromancer.
Why? It’s 100% predictable

What’s going to yield the most damage in a 20 second crit damage window?
21 second long pblast 100% crit chance with +50% crit damage while getting +2 ice strikes - or a 8 second long buff that might terminate right before crit buff - making it not having a 100% crit chance for buff duration - making it useless.

I’ve done testing and number crunching, simulations, you name it. Conclusion is - that exile rune do less damage, even under optimal circumstances. Is it much of a difference in optimal circumstances? Nope.

Here’s how I came to my conclusion.
I’m focusing my numbers on 1 crit buff duration - 20 seconds.
In ~20 seconds you can do:
6 ice strikes (3s) - 3623/hit
1 chill - 3177 damage/hit
6 pblast ticks(3s) - 1051/tick
10 flesh ticks(2s) - 558/tick
Result: 36801 damage

Meanwhile, with exile rune you will have a 8 second window where you can get(if lucky):
2 ice strikes (3s) - 4077/hit
1 chill - 3575/hit
2 pblast ticks - 834/tick
4 flesh ticks - 558/tick
15981 damage

For the remainder of the crit buff you will have no bonus damage.
4 ice strikes - 3623/hit
0 chills - 0/hit
3 pblast - 741/tick
6 flesh - 558/tick
20063 damage
Total: 36044 damage - which is close to 36801 but still lower.

There are of course some unlikely scenario where exile rune is better and that’s when exile proc happens at 90% of your ice strike cast - but how often does that happen? I wouldn’t know, I don’t use it

Would I want to use Exile rune at all?
Nope, why? It’s not predictable, it can be good and it can be bad. With t5 rune you are guranteed to do additional damage.

When it’s important to do high damage, for example at zelandra dps phase. You have dots running on heng/neesa, it accidentally procs. Now what? You enter dps phase with a cooldown.
But what if you pull big brain 200iq moves and don’t dps heng/neesa until zelandra ports?
Start spellweaving, dot up, a dot accidentally crits but your crit buff don’t proc until 8 seconds later. Good use of exile rune, at least you get +25% mastery exp when the encounter is over… The only thing that is predictable with Exile rune is the +25% mastery when you kill something, a damage increase can vary from good to garbage. Would not recommend if you had the choice.

Henryx · September 11, 2020, 8:53pm

well i think (if lucky) dots tick at the first 2 sec of exile rune.
you can actually do is:
3 ice (3s)
1 chill
3 pb
4 ftw
should also count extra 8s exile crit dmg of (if lucky)
2 motd
2 GS
is exile better than t5 theoretically??(if lucky)

Fass · September 11, 2020, 9:06pm

Yes if lucky and the planets align.
If you’re unlucky it’s only a +25% mastery buff.

I would not recommend if you have t5 rune - having 100% control when things happen is invaluable.

Baerron · September 13, 2020, 3:58pm

The reason behind my thinking there is, that assassine already has a really high dmg output und most assassine players struggle anyways to not pull aggro. The t5 rune for guard and conqueror improves the aggro and survivability which means the aggro level if played correctly improves for the whole raid. Which again means high dps classes are less likely to pull aggro and therefor the whole damage of the raid improves.
As for why i regard hox and barb as must have is simply put. A Barb who can maintain reaver stack 15x means he can non stop buff his team with savage fury and doesn’t loose the very significant damage boost for himself. And the hox burn to death passive boost is just such a huge damage boost compared to anything else. As for why i had demo abit above is simply because the improvement for the demo is more significant than it would be for the sin. Because i think a demo is quite reliant of weather he can go into spellweave or not to get the 100% crit buff and if he can be up close to the enemy to hit with hellfire stream. If not the demo damage drops noticibly. Whereas an assassine, if always on the target, does really good damage regardless, if played correctly. The extra damage you get from the t5 rune is really nice, but compared isn’t that important because most players are on the brink to pull aggro anyways, since they dont use their deaggro tools properly. Especially if its a fight where Dts can’t be in tali spec.

But the point is: t5 runes are nice for every class and the purpose of this post is not discuss which t5 rune is better than the other t5 rune. It was created to give players an idea what t5 runes are and what they do. As well the hole point of my personal ranking was simply to give players an idea weather its worth for themselves to invest the time and effort to get one for their own character. Since especially for healers and Dts the t5 runes are in my opinion just abit lackluster. This always will be a personal opinion and everyone has a different one. Edited the ranking so there are hopefully more constructive posts rather than discussions about ranking

Fireblow · September 13, 2020, 4:59pm

This makes no sense whatsoever. Assassin got CoD, Spirit of Nightfall and Crimson Lotus Pollen to make sure you do not pull. You don’t want to increase your dps because you’re afraid you’re going to pull aggro more? Sometimes you need to learn how to handle your tools more properly, and sometimes the tanks just needs to… get better.

Look at this parse: Screenshot - dde811b6ccbebd1471176ae84a9e9991 - Gyazo
That Assassin didn’t pull aggro in that fight. 3100 dps on 2nd boss in T6 is fairly high. This is not only because tanks also had high dps (1700 on conq) so that they could hold it, but he used his tools properly, and smart. I bet he used Lotus Overdose and Cover of Dusk together etc.

Also I haven’t confirmed it 100%, but I am almost sure finesse hits doesn’t affect aggro table. Just think about it. How is a barb with x4 finesse hits not pulling aggro from a DT on last boss in chaos with 90 dmg deflection shield? If it does it must be modified to some extent at least I think.
Why is my ranger with 300 dps lower than Sinix barb getting a teleport when he isn’t? Ranger with more minus hate, specially when you nuke with advantages.

I also remember when I did T5 vistrix on my assassin once, and I did 2600 dps without pulling main aggro (I did get teleports, but who cares as long as I don’t place them badly), and one sin did 1800 dps or so, and he pulled main aggro. He thought everything was on the tanks, and it was their fault etc, but couldn’t understand how I did not pull aggro when he saw the parse. Simple answer is he used sins of the flesh, probably never used crimson lotus pollen etc.
Assassin is by far the easiest dps class to do high dps on without actually pulling aggro, but it seems like people struggle with actually using the tools we get, which is absurd to me.

Barbarian didn’t really need that T5 rune. It was in a fine spot, but with the T5 rune they go zerker and have nothing to help them not grab aggro, but that logic isn’t applied there? And the +5 sec duration on the reaver stance isn’t that major. Sometimes it’ll keep your stacks up, but if you’re going to lose them in the first place, +5 sec won’t help much.
They go away on rocknoses when they’re burried, ethrams syphon, cetriss 25% treshold, yothians 25% treshold etc.

Using Cover of Dusk together with Lotus Overdose = Way more dps than ■■■■■■ sins of the flesh in the long run. Remember: Being a good dpser is all about doing highest possible dps without actually pulling aggro. Anyone can do high dps, but not everyone can do it without getting aggro.

Baerron · September 13, 2020, 6:57pm

Seriously!? I’m starting to think people don’t really read what i write and just getting butthurt about things they read between lines that isn’t there.
As stated many times now Assasine t5 rune is really good and desirable to have. I never said don’t bother with t5 rune its not worth it. All i said was for some classes the t5 rune brings more improvement than for other classes. This does !not mean they all do waaay more damage and leave the poor assassine players in the dust. This simply can mean its a nice quality boost either for the class itself or the raid and therefor in my opinion more desirable to work towards. Look at it as a “what class should get the t5 rune first ranking”.

Secondly let’s get real here. 80% of dps players don’t use their minus hate buffs properly and thats exactly what i mean with my post here. Yes i know that you can go full nuke and don’t pull aggro but as you said yourself that’s only possible if you have good tanks and dps players that really know their stuff. The point here again isn’t to talk about how to play assassine/your class.

As for the finesse hits not counting towards aggro is an interesting statement, but i think they still do. But haven’t tested it myself yet. So if someone knows more about finesse hits regarding aggro and ignoring shields let us know

Fireblow · September 13, 2020, 7:06pm

Barb+HoX runes do indeed have a higher dps boost from no rune → rune, but the sin rune is also just straight out free dps without anything changing. The reason why I made my post was because you said sin doesn’t need the dps boost since they struggle with aggro already, but I don’t understand how that doesn’t affect barb as I explained in my earlier post. They struggle more with t5 rune. With all that being said, I do understand what you’re saying. Barb + HoX rune is bigger increase than Sin, but the Sin rune is pretty damn good too which it looked like you were undermining in your original since it wasn’t even mentioned as “good to have” iirc.

This just means they should try to learn this, and not try to find solutions that gimps themselves since they cannot fix this specific issue.

Again I haven’t proved it 100%, but after own experience I believe it is like that. my “proof” is the examples I showed in my previous post.
You’re correct that finesse hits don’t care about directional shields, but I didn’t quite understand if you agreed/disagreed on the shields on bat boss, chaos last boss? I am speaking of the dmg delfection shields (buffs) not the directional ones here.

Anyways, if you use a finesse hit combo like slow death strike, all your hits will do like 20-300 dmg or w/e, and then the finesse hit in the end will do like 2,5k or whatever on last boss chaos.
Now imagine if a barb uses 2h Bone Shatter, 1H Bone Shatter, 2H Staggering Blow, another 2h Bone shatter and gets finesse hits on all of these (barb finesse hits being higher than sin as well) and there’s a tali dt with only irritate hitting for 100-300 on boss the barb should easily pull aggro with all this imo if it actually affects the aggro.