The Great Encumbrance Perk Debate

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I feel like the 5th perk was one of those things Funcom introduced when they launched the game that they wish they could take back, but now that it’s been almost 2 years, they can’t. There are so many incremental adjustments they could have done to weight, inventory capacity and encumbrance in the early days post-launch that they probably would have sorted this out by now.

But no, we have the perk, and many people want to keep the perk, and the common standard now seems to be, ‘just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean the option should be removed from the rest of us’. I’m sorry, but this is again falling into the us vs them without solutions. I can easily just say, as so many others do, go single player and admin your stuff, private server with your friends and admin stuff, or private server and make a mod that gives you such perk. I mean really, arguments like this don’t help.

Let’s throw out ideas, as many have already done, to find some happy mediums that still give an option to the builders that keep post-level 60 farming from being too irritating, but still balance out all the glaring negatives on official servers that this perk brings (as already stated/pointed out by many) But this back n forth about ‘don’t touch my perk’ is really counter-productive and doesn’t provide ideas that the devs can latch onto. The last thing we all want is for them to roll out another update that screws everyone without at least having had the community provide ideas that would be good, or at least tolerable.

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And like the roll mechanic and momentum system change, the blowback will be loud and voluminous, with a rollback patch in 2 weeks.

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This might be a dumb question, but: are you saying that the clan size is the critical factor that makes an alpha clan?

The reason why I ask this is because you originally framed this as an issue of “alpha clan vs RIP clan” and now we’re talking about “big clan vs small clan”. So either they’re largely synonymous or the goal posts moved.

Also, everything you said seems to be focused on a one day timeframe: farming for 8 hours, building overnight. Is there a specific reason why I can’t stockpile bombs over multiple days and then attack the alpha clan?

That… is deviously insightful.

This wouldn’t be the first multiplayer game I stopped playing because the devs decided that solo players need to eff off and go play singleplayer games instead :stuck_out_tongue:

Even when I had other active players in my clan, we mostly went around building our own builds instead of all working on the same build together. We were basically a clan of several solo players who liked having a clan for the ancillary benefits: clan chat, refreshing, and Purges :slight_smile:

I can understand if Funcom decides that this is not an acceptable playstyle anymore. Until then, I’ll keep hoping that this isn’t the direction in which we’re heading.

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Yeah, no, those really don’t help. They’re a shorthand for argumentum ad populum: “(I believe) you’re in minority, so you’re wrong” :stuck_out_tongue:

I’d love to, but a solution has to address a problem, and it’s still not clear what the problem is.

For example, if the problem is that people can pick up the contents of a whole vault and run away or teleport, one could propose the solution that makes overencumbered players unable to teleport during raid hours and that makes them receive no protection from their armor. But that “solution” won’t do anything useful if that’s not the problem.

As another example, here’s the change I’ve been mulling over in my head for a few days:

  • Remove the 5th encumbrance perk.
  • Make followers immune to lava and fall damage.
  • Give bearers more inventory slots (e.g. 50 for T4s).
  • When a bearer is following you, anything you harvest goes into their inventory instead of yours. It only goes into your inventory if the bearer doesn’t have any more inventory space.

The problem with this idea is that I don’t know whether it solves the problem with the 5th enc perk, because I still don’t know what the damn problem is :smiley:

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I couldnt understand it. It would be purely punitive for a segment of the population orthogonal to the pvp crowd that can easily be solved by a select on a server by server basis. It does NOT limit base size; it merely would slow it down. That has a bigger impact on people who play alone or on a server with a few friends who arent pooling resources but instead all want a base they built themselves. Unless they are going to nuke the maps to reset everyone (something they implied today they would NOT do) it merely handicaps new players further when joining existing servers.

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Yep. If @zerog’s speculation is correct, they would want to discourage exactly those people from playing that way. Of course, @zerog could be wrong about Funcom’s motives.

If their new map is an expansion on separate servers, this would be an excellent motivator for people to migrate over to the expansion servers :smiley:

Of course, all of this is speculation and it has a distinct whiff of tinfoil-hattery, but it’s plausible. Ultimately, though, it’s irrelevant to this discussion. If Funcom already made their mind to do things that way, there’s nothing we can say here that would change that. If they didn’t, then this speculation is even more pointless :stuck_out_tongue:

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Without the 5th encumbrance perk I would quit the game. The counter-balance would need to be too great to not immediately turn the game into even more of a mindless grind, and no offense, Funcom hasn’t had a stellar track record of implementation in the past.

I’ve been here since day one. When we used to use thralls for unlimited carry space. They didn’t like that for some reason and the encumbrance perk was the compromise. To take it away completely now is to spit in the face of all of the players that have become accustomed to using it as an essential part of any farming build.

This is not an early access game. Your customers deserve some semblance of stability in their gameplay and to change such a crucial aspect of it because of personal distaste is both egregious and irresponsible, very reminiscent of the Great Vathis Cleanse.

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Im not so sure any ship would have sailed. They backpedaled on movement, they extended the suggestion thread; I think they’re persuadeable.

I Work a full time job with an hour commute both ways, I spend about 11 hours a day for work and another 6-8 for sleeping. I don’t have the time in my day to go back and fourth over and over to swing a tool for resources, I’d rather use the 5th enc perk and get it all done. Besides, you can still just do a max AGI build and barrel roll a great distance. You’re still encumbered on a horse unless you leave inventory space to move over to the horse so you can actually ride it. Or you can get a thrall to carry some of it for you. This is even more of a pvp issue because some people have more time than others. I play maybe 3 hours every other day so please tell me why I need to have another full time job? If you’re so mad about the 5th enc perk than pop a yellow lotus potion, not hard to make, and do it yourself. Not everyone has time to gather resources, especially if they’re not in a clan. Leave the current encumbrance perks alone. Making the game even more tedious is just going to funnel more players out the door to play something else. Make the game fun not long.

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I do understand your position and how you see things. But its a fact that fast travel is what the majority likes/wants, even though you might not believe it. Its not just the polls in this forum that shows that. It also can be seen on steam. Teleportation mods in general are quite popular. Its also a part of the pipi mod which is basically the most popular one for Conan Exiles not just for admins.

I personally do believe, that most people do not feel the heavy grinding in this game too much because they are able to carry a lot of stuff and are able to teleport quikly from place to place. It gives you kind of a compensation.

The other thing is, that if you play Conan for some time you will come to the point where you have seen it all and you start looking for the shortcuts. No matter if it is leveling, building, grinding, or getting thralls. At this stage, building becomes more important, because exploring the map doesn´t do it for you anymore and you have to fill that gap with something. Not beeing able to travel fast becomes tedious, especially if you need a lot of ressourcen or slaves from different places. Funcom always said they wanted the player not finding ressources like brimstone everywhere. Also they like to keep the gathering rates as low as possible on officials. So what do you do if you are not close to this ressources but you need a lot of it? of course you will try to get as much as possible and carrying it home as fast as you can. You want and you need this ports at some point or you will start to cheese the game one way or the other. No matter if people do the dying trick or using 2 thralls at a time (yes, you can) or they do other stuff that gives them a speeding or gathering advantage.

Yes, i understand that everybody has a different playstyle and I am 100% ok with it. If someone likes to run back and forth 100times to bring his 50 stones home and has a blast while doing so, its fine by me. But I don´t want to get forced to doing the same thing. Because for me its not something I enjoy.

I have problems to understand why some people try to get this perk changed even though they personally never use it. It makes no sence to me at all. I don´t like the 5th strenght perk. But do I go and make noise about it all over the place? No. I do not. Because I know a lot of people like it the way it is. So I accept it and play without using it.

You keep using building as a main reason people need it. But here are the numbers.

With 50 Enc you can carrry about 450 lbs before you become over encumbered. With that weigth you can carry a decent amount of building supplies, unless you are trying to build a mega castle asap. But these numbers are enough to build a 6x6 bases that has 3 floors, 5 walls high. That is pretty big tbh. And i n=include enough raw mats to build out about 40-50 more pieces if needed for stairs, roof top, etc…design stuff.
And enough wieght room for food,water and a repair hammer. so i would say needing the 5th enc to build is a choice, not a necessity. If you choose to want to build qith 1000’s of parts on you, then that is why i think it hurts the game. It makes it too easy to mass, farm, then mass build without any real planning effort (as far as what you need to slowly build it in chunks).

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:joy: yea, I guess if you don’t see a problem with the perk then it’d be hard to provide solutions to it. That’s probably where the big rub is. Some see a problem with it and have tried to articulate it, and many have turned around and said “keep you damn hands off my perk”… :joy:

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I pretty much agree, which is why I’ve stated since we’ve had the perk since launch, you can’t yank it without providing some alternative.

For me personally, I’d like to see the perk as-is go away from players, but give back something comparable through a pet or thrall that is geared towards farming.

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To accept it and move on does not mean it shouldn’t be looked at. If you don’t like the perk, why not voice it in the forums? You never know, the community might like your idea, and we could see an improvement to the game.

You know that you can load thralls and pets with tons of resources right?

As for players who are tired of grinding 10 000 stone, how about you suggest to Funcom that they add some kind of thrall worker stone camp or something where you capture a worker thrall and they slowly mine ore for you?
This could be a feat unlocked at for example level 30 or higher, at which point people are usually fed up with having to farm stone (same could be done with wood).

So you could do without your OP perk just fine.

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The caravan rhinos/elephants are sort of a solution. As they can carry 30 stacks of whatever. Even now some of the foods, as they kinda fixed them eating the entir stack. So no more 1000 bark binges for mine :slight_smile:
But i would not be against having the bearer thrall have 30 slots as well. maybe per tier
T1 10 slots
T2 20 slots
T3 30 slots
Named 30 slots, plus fix the HP to actaully be more than the T3 (bugged right now)

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First of all, can we please get rid of the whole “necessity vs choice” thing? It’s a red herring and it’s definitely not helpful. If I suggested nerfing the XP and harvesting multiplier on PVP servers to 0.1, I could argue that you don’t really need to harvest or level up so quickly, it’s just your choice and preference.

I don’t insist on this point out of pedantry. This kind of framing is precisely the reason why so many people feel attacked by your arguments. None of us need to play this game in any specific way. We choose to do it because we find it enjoyable. When we’re discussing problems in the game, we are not discussing real life problems like not having enough money to pay the rent, we are discussing things that make playing the game less enjoyable for a certain number of players to a certain degree. The more players are affected and to a greater degree, the greater the magnitude of the problem.

When you start talking about how somebody doesn’t need to play the game a certain way, the message that comes across is “I can enjoy the game playing my way, so you don’t need to play the game your way.”

There’s a certain lack of both empathy and respect in that attitude. Empathy, because “you don’t need this” is basically FYGM. And respect, because you yourself have said that you don’t play PVE – you just started very recently as an experiment – and yet you presume to tell people with 3000+ hours of PVE experience how they should play.

I’m sorry if all this sounded harsh, but it’s starting to grate. Whenever I participate in a discussion that touches on PVP playstyle, I always try to keep in mind my lack of experience and ask a lot of questions whenever I’m unsure why people claim what they do. So please don’t take this as a personal attack, because I respect both your knowledge and your passion for this game, but you might wanna try to listen to what PVE players have to say just as much as some of us are trying to listen to what PVP players have to say.

Again, why? What’s the difference between building with 1000s of parts on me, on a thrall, or in a chest that I placed at the construction site?

This is where the inexperience shows. Again, don’t take this as a personal attack, but there’s no way you’ve built a big, carefully designed and decorated project if you think that there’s no real planning effort involved.

I can’t speak for every builder out there, but most good builders I know will first design their build in singleplayer, using admin cheats, and once we’re satisfied, we’ll farm up the resources and go build our design.

Making farming and building slower, more cumbersome and less enjoyable is not going to force people to plan any better. It’ll just make it slower and less enjoyable.

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And yet you continue to only view this from your specific perspective.

Its not your place to tell me how to ‘reasonably’ play this game. Honestly, I am tired of that argument. I could just as easily state that this isn’t meant to be a brutal survival game. It isn’t necessary to remove the perk from the game because you and people that think like you can just adjust.

That is essentially your same argument.

I don’t care what your math is. All you are stating, no matter what numbers you crunch is: “I don’t believe you play this game how it should be played. Therefor, due to my preference, you should change your ways.”

Thats the entire point I have seen you express so far. Nothing further.

I keep using building as my main defense, because thats where the removal of the perk would effect me the most. I don’t specify myself singularly, simply because I know I share this opinion with many others.
I have been careful to never specify most, or all, or majority (save when specifically referring to a pole here).

You can theory craft until you turn blue, but your argument that playing how I like to play the game, which has been the standard since before release, is wrong, and the game needs to be adjusted to your tastes is just self centered.

I deny this point of view as its being unreasonable.

Here’s an idea: how about we try digging deeper into the actual problems and just ignore people who say “keep your hands off my perk”? :wink:

I mean, if someone cusses you out in a post, you won’t cuss back at them, you’ll just flag their post and move on. Can we try to do same for posts that just as clearly don’t add anything to the discussion at all?

Instead, what we get is the exact opposite: people focus on firing back on “don’t touch my perk” posts rather than answering honest questions about the actual problems :stuck_out_tongue: