They have broken the game with the flying bats

personally fro me this is COOL feature, couple years ago i gave a suggestion to new religion mechanics when people can turn werehyenas (can climb any walls and jump across them) and bats - specifically to counter the pillar and sky bases…
But i understand the issue - devs should expand offline defenses mechanics (add some thrall ballista’s, and sorcery powered AI turrets)
About ability to land the base before raid time, well, when climbing mechanics added to the game same situation has already happened, people was upset about their bases became vulnerable…
We need to rethink base designs from now again… but its totally manageable

Um this feature is one of my favorite features in the entire game. I’m sorry you can’t cheese out and build on top of pillars and be untouchable anymore but hard no to remove the bats.

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So the heart of all of the pushback isn’t about sorcery but about offline raiding, correct?

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@erjoh No I think the lighting is completely broken to much damage and to easy to get. Bat is only really a issue when you add the lighting to it.

Offline raiding will always be a disappointing feature in the game.

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Too much PvP on a PvP server? That’s crazy.

Offline raiding can be 99% countered by dynamic raid mechanics, so by default on PVP servs people can attack 24\7, but can only raid bases online or within X hours window after defenders are log out
You can call it Righteous PVP, this feature should be switchable so people can play total PVP Deathmatch in some servers

No I think the pushback is more coming from what the established meta for raid/raid defence has been for so long and the options that the game gives you.

For the longest time now the only ways to defend a base outside of the players themselves has been thralls, which have always been kind of lackluster and clunky, and then the base build (whether that be the location or way you built i.e in a high location with anti climb or using a lot of honeycomb/wallstacking) The game has never really presented much else in the way of options that players have for defence, what this update does is remove one of those limited options making the viable means for defending one self even less. That is where the pushback is coming from.

I like the addition of spells and I think it is really cool. Having a way to actually fly in the game now I think is also pretty cool, what I think is silly is that this was introduced without any counter balance options for how these things can be used as raid meta’s. Its like playing rock paper scissors but you only release rock and scissors without the paper if that makes sense. It puts things out of balance in a game where the balance was already a bit wonky at best.

something I suggested atleast 2 years ago was having more options for base defence, Something one can use as an alternative to the current thrall spam. Towers would be a perfect addition and is the very thing I suggested. Something that you could place a thrall in, makes it so the thrall no longer can move around but that augments their effectiveness for defense. like putting an archer in a gaud tower which boosts their range and accuracy, maybe a spell tower for a soccerer which can negate nearby enemy spells, maybe you have to put something in them which they consume each time they nullify another player spell. Maybe fixed siege equipment like ballista or burning oil cauldrones which can be maned by thralls, once again the thrall is fixed to the item but they can then fire at enemy player within range.
With the direction things are going whereby thralls are getting weaker and weaker and with little work being done to optimize thrall behavior, i.e the terrible pathing, the fact thralls wont get out of a players away unless specifically commanded and good luck if they are aggroed on something. If we are going to keep moving away from thralls being a reliable way for defense and we are going to remove options for base defense meta’s like anti climb then there has to be something to replace these things.

My suggestion would not be to remove the spells or the flying or to nerf it into oblivion. Instead they just need to spend time introducing new and better ways that players can defend themselves. Having some form of static base defense be it towers or fixed weapon placements or spell negation, would be perfect. Many survival games in this genre which I have played offer some form of this and it works perfectly without being overpowered.

ARK has ofcourse your creatures but then also had plants that can shoot and slow things along with turrets which you have to power and supply with bullets but then they make it so you have to either take out a players power or break their turrets before you can get too close.
Rust has auto turrets which also need power and ammo and work a similar way, along with also having sam sites for air defense and traps such as shotgun traps, bear traps and landmines to also help make a base harder to raid.
Conan has… uh thralls which have terrible A.I. which often present little to no challenge to a smart raider and then the place you choose to build on. Kind of stale and badly balanced if you ask me

Literally all they need to do to balance PvP better is introduce better ways for defense which arent broken and that give options for players to establish new meta’s. Towers, seige placements, static spell cast stations, traps. There are tons of options they could explore, bit surprised that they still havent even experimented with some of those things yet.

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Personally, i think the bat is a great feature.
And id hate to see lightning storm nerfed too badley, maybe reduce the length it shoots bolts for.
I just think the pvp game has changed, you cant now sit in a base and be completly safe.
Your roaming ten man clan cant now build on the highest mountain and smash everyone else with impunity as smaller clans simply have a way now to attack back.
If you loose a base, the resource increase helps you rebuild.
The times of a clan holding the same fortress for 6 years is over.

Sure system needs some tweeks, the spells crashing the game is a real issue, but its new.

Ultimatly if you want to horde stuff 100% safe, pvp isnt the way to do it.

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They sure are fun though.

We are having much fun with it all on a pvp server.
Getting the most complaints so far in angry in game messages from People who raided 1st using usual methods , and wernt expecting to get hit back, funny enough.
Probably before the spells we wouldnt have been able to as effectivly.

Lightningstorm is just way to cheap for the damage it can cause, and that isn’t even debatable.

And as beeing said before in different topics, this spell hurts smaller Clans much much more than big clans and I don’t know if we really need to screw over small clans even more.

But since the skill is bugged we will have to see what it actually does if it gets fixed at some point. In the current situation everyone using the spell is pretty much bug abusing

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Currently anyone logging in could be considered bug abusing, with everything as it is.
But yes we will see how it turns out.

Sadly have to agree :joy:

BS! Smaller clans are already going to get broken easily anyways with explosive jars and avatars that the larger clans can farm out in spades. Yes the larger clans can get pouches easy as well but at the farming level of the large clan, its a moot point if it’s jars, avatars, or LS…the smaller clan is screwed regardless. The ease of pouches gives the smaller clans and solo a means to do raiding that isn’t a time sink that makes it completely unreasonable for them to do. It means lots more raiding and i bet real money the biggest complainers on here mega bases that are now vulnerable…just as vulnerable as the small clans were in the past with traditional raiding and that’s just not ‘fair’ in their opinion because…well apparently just because now they are at significant risk.

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When the Only Defence against getting raided by it is being online and in base who has an easier time consistently beeing online all raid window and sitting in base?
The solo/duo/Trio or the 10man?

Believing that this hurts full clans in a serious way is Hilarious, an active full clan will defend against LS every day without an issue.
Meanwhile will a duo etc have to invest much of their manpower every day to guard the base.
Compared in percentage ofc.
But it’s not even only how much harder it is to
Maintain a guard, also how you actively would try to defend against it. Since you cannot run with your trio out to defend and fight when the enemy team has more people because one of your team will be bound to defend by spamming darkness, meaning your team gets trimmed out on active Defence aswell

IDK about breaking a game, but they definitely broke the meta of the height base. It’s time to adapt, or risk destruction.

War is a constantly evolving demon. There’s a reason “resting on one’s laurels” is a cautionary proverb. How can defensive build styles improve to counter this new threat? What of rooftop archers, for example?

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Is not a problem tho. Last stand is. :slight_smile:

But to the topic, bats can fly out of archers range and drop the player on the roof, there is even a slow falling perk that makes these 2 combined pretty much OP. I wont say it’s gamebreaking. But it makes a bunch of other features and building pieces unnecessary, wich is not good at all.

But #'s advantages are always going to be at issue regardless of how bases are broken into. A small clan has more success in casting LS and getting out of there as it’s going off than trebbing and getting nailed by arrows or placing jars and getting attacked while trying to place. Basically the #'s advantage is always meta and always will be and not part of the conversation because it’s not a variable in review of how bases are cracked, it’s a constant overwhelming variable that trumps all others when dealing with raiding. Ten will, with 90% certainty, always trump two. But two can farm leather pouches with as much threat to the ten base as the ten can farm jars for the two base. That is the balancing effect that sorcery is providing.

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I agree, id rather have an option rather than none, an option is still fun.

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Wait why? Anticlimb still is anticlimb and prevents just walking up and raiding so it still has purpose. LS and bat are new variables in this and I bet there are methods to counter since the bat would make the person 20% corrupted when they land unless they have the champion boots on. So if you keep your roof full of thralls just itching to kill something then LS can’t be cast and they are at a disadvantage with the 20% corruption. If everyone is complaining about thrall effectiveness when off line, that isn’t about bats or LS but about offline raiding.

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