Thralls modificators should be rebalanced

[SireneLoreley]

Hello!

I want to discuss some thrall balance. I will refer to Exiled lands only and will point out every fraction. For now, the balance is not quite good: t4 Purge thrall from Berserkers is worse than, I dunno, Undina Bodyguard. I will write the bonus attack for each point of strength gained and experience needed: 1x (noob zone), 2x (mid tier), 3x (high tier). Usually there is a connection: 1x has 0.8% bonus, 2x - 0.5%, 3x - 0.4%

I have already done some math in this post:

Top 3 fighter thrall followers

No, I didn’t mean the weapon bonus. It is seen in calculus: Crom is the weapon I do maths with. As for Spinas, he is the same as other 3 volcano guys. Levelled them a lot, they are my guardians for the Redguard roleplay town. Yes, Teimos looks like they forgot to nerf him, same for Relic Hunters who have 0.8% bonus but 3x exp needed. And he has no “pokey-pokey” voiceline, he’s like berserker meeeeeh I wish all the Purge thralls get some upgrade. We can easily roll Teimoses, Lians, …

1. Volcano: 0.4%/1str, 15 str, 3x exp, 2.21 melee mod

Overall
4 named male thralls with no “unnamed” version

Guaranteed spawn NO

Spawn points
Well, I can get one in 1-2 runs in Volcano, I like that they are not super rare and kinda risky to get

Purge version
1.768 melee multiplier with 0.4% bonus, is it a joke? All Purge versions are WORSE than regular ones

My opinion
They are kinda OK, but shall be slightly better than any others just because of risks and no guaranteed spawn point. Would be nice if some of female archers would become a fighter, I like girls in my army Purge thralls need to be reworked

2. Cimmerians: 0.4%/1str, 15 str, 3x exp, 2.24 melee mod

Overall
Female/male unnamed thralls with named version: Dalinsia with 2.21 melee multiplier but more HP

Guaranteed spawn: YES

Spawn points
100% guaranteed for unnamed and rare Dalinsia

Purge version
1.768 melee multiplier with 0.4% bonus, is it a joke again? More hp but LESS damage

My opinion
They shall not have better melee multiplier than volcano guys, especially if we point out that they have 100% spawn point so you can roll the fighter untill you get a nice one

3. Nordheimers: 0.5%/1str, 30 str, 2x exp, 1.93 melee mod

Overall
4 named male fighters with Lian guaranteed spawn and extremely rare Chieftain Varulf and Chieftain Derulf mini-bosses with 1 skull, which are WORSE: 1.82 melee multiplier

Guaranteed spawn: YES

Spawn points
100% guaranteed Lian, a bit rare Janos (tbh I bump into him every time I walk around Asagarth), extremely rare Chieftain mini-boss spawn: the only one 4% point shares 9 named Chieftains

Purge version
1.547 melee multiplier with 0.5% bonus, no comments. They are just bad.

My opinion
As above, Purge versions shall be stronger. I want Chieftains to be more powerful since they are a super version of Janos and Lian and are even more rare than Dalinsia

4. Relic Hunters: 0.8%/1str, 0 str, 3x exp, 2.21 melee mod

Overall
Unnamed thralls only, named versions are unknockable any more and are mini bosses… why? And they are x3 exp needed for levelling but have “noob” bonus: 0.8%, is it a bug?

Guaranteed spawn: YES

Spawn points
100% guaranteed UC and Wine cellar

Purge version
1.768 melee multiplier with !!! 0.4% bonus !!! WHY? Why Purge versions not only have worse multiplier but bonus also?

My opinion
Their miniboss named versions can’t be converted to a thrall, which is illogical: we have Pirates, Exiles and Chieftain minibosses. Why were they removed from the thrall list? Second thing, why 0.8% bonus? Seems to be a mistake!

5. Pirates: 0.8%/1str, 1 str, 1x exp, various melee mod

Overall
1.547 Unnamed Captains, named version: Ioushuwa, three nice pirates: Undina, Gaal, Hekkr, a bunch of 1.456 Minibosses aaaaand… TEIMOS 2.08 who ruins all this pokey-pokey party with his enormous melee multiplier

Guaranteed spawn: YES

Spawn points
100% captain, 100% Undina/Gaal/Hekkr, 100% Miniboss, 80% Teimos

Purge version
1.2376, no comments again

My opinion
Teimos. Any additional words needed? He beats every, EVERY Purge t4 fighter and is located in noobish zone having 1x exp needed and nice spawn point, TONS of hp.

6. Lemurian: 0.8%/1str, 20 str, 2x exp, 1.6575 melee mod

Overall
They have no combat voicelines, rare spawn, no guaranteed spawn point

Guaranteed spawn: NO

Spawn points
2 points

Purge version
Eeeeh… No purge version? Am I right?..

My opinion
They don’t have guaranteed spawn point, are extremely rare and have no Purge version. Strange guys.

7. Dogs of the Desert: 0.8%/1str, 0 str, 2x exp, 1.56 melee mod

Overall
N’Batu. That’s all folks, but who cares about Dogs fraction. They are strange. No information about Claw of Sag is provided on Wiki btw

Guaranteed spawn: YES

Spawn points
One guaranteed

Purge version
1.326, meh

My opinion
IDK does someone use them?

8. Darfari: 0.8%/1str, 0 str, 1x exp, 1.404 melee mod

Overall
Female/Male Brute and female/male Ritualist, some other male guys. Want to eat you

Guaranteed spawn: YES

Spawn points
Ritualist 100%, Thugra 100%, not rare Brutes

Purge version
1.1934

My opinion
Unnamed versions, you can roll the look you like, nice. Some named versions, but they are not better. At least 100% spawn. Easy to get

9. Exiles: 0.8%/1str, 0 str, 1x exp, 1.3 melee mod

Overall
100% Miniboss spawn point and some thralls near Sinner’s

Guaranteed spawn: YES

Spawn points
A bunch of minibosses and rare versions near Sinner’s

Purge version
1.105, worse

My opinion
You can get your first t4 thrall quite easy. Why not? Nice start

So…

Purge versions are weaker, LOL. Teimos from noobish zone beats Volcano guys. Relic hunters have buggy minibosses that can’t be turned into a thrall (I know that they could be in an ancient patch, maybe return that back?) and strange bonus multiplier on non-purge fighters, like 0.8% vs 0.4%, it is clearly a bug. Chieftains are super rare and super weak. Lemurians are the only race that doesn’t have guaranteed spawn (Volcano guys don’t have, too, but there are 4 fighters and a LOT of locations they can be found) and they don’t have Purge version fighters… and voicelines.

I really think developers should rebalance fighters and their damage output, make Purges stronger with a nice reward: strong fighter. My suggestion is:

1. Make Purge thralls stronger AND give them increased chance to get str/acc (90+%) so you kinda get a guy who is 100% super strong
2. Return back Relic Hunter minibosses
3. Tune RH, Chieftain and Teimos modificators
4. Rebalance Volcano
5. Add 100% spawn point for Lemurians and a Purge version

Hope the post will get noted by combat designers. Have a nice game!

[stelagel]

I totally agree, we need thrall balance, it is not right, fair, logical etc Purge thralls to grow worst than this unnecessary op thrall called Teimos. And not only, purge thralls but volcano thralls too. The most difficult to gain the best result. I don’t expect, the ravager and the fleshtearer to gain same stats with Spinas or Daicas because the last 2 are more rare. So rare must be better, like Dalinsia. I will summon @Technicolorfool and @Laure to continue this conversation here. This is the post that needs your opinions about this matter that must be noticed by devs. Because I believe that this thing still exists because we didn’t complain all this time about it. I do understand that it is very convenient for pvp main spawn, Easy spawn to get fast and good Stat thralls, but, it must be balanced again, because the way it is, all I have to do from now on is go to the mount of the dead with a TUGRA lvl 10, take an oathbraker and never return. Then go to buccaneers Bay, stay a couple of days, collect 30 Teimos and game over. Build as much as I like, do not log in for a day to drop my purge meter and go on and on powerful and unpunished from the game. But purge is another story, right now, balance of thralls is the issue. I create my posts from the self phone and I still didn’t use to it, I guess I am to old for this s… t . But I beg for someone to upload a vaulting poll about that issue in the general discussion section. Thank you for you time an understanding .

[Technicolorfool]

@stelagel I agree that thralls could and perhaps should be more balanced. It’s an interesting dilemma.

I kind of understand why Cimmerians from the Mounds area don’t get as much health per vitality point due to the star metal weapon they come out of the wheel with. However, once a player is of high enough level star metal weapons kind of become a moot point. I find that the disparity in melee damage bonus and health per vitality point really doesn’t make much sense to me. I cringe every time I compare a Cimmerian T4 to a RHTS. The disparity in the melee bonus damage in particular makes me shake my head. I notice that my Berserker or Dalinsia has much more STR than my RHTS yet doesn’t get as much bonus damage per point of STR. It almost makes me feel like the attribute values between factions doesn’t mean anything. I don’t get why they did it this way overall. Shouldn’t all attributes have equal significance for each faction? As far as I can tell all the factions in the Exiled Lands are human. So why discriminate against one faction over another?

A wise person once said to me that there’s power in simplicity. Yet Funcom seem to have gone out of their way to overly complicate thrall bonuses gained from attributes. Not to mention the disparity in starting health by map location/faction. And add to that the 3 tiers of experience necessary to level a thrall up.

Further adding to the confusion I have is that Funcom mentioned that they felt like too many people were going for the same npc exiles to make as crafter thralls when they redid the workbenches recently. If this is indeed how they felt then wouldn’t/shouldn’t it also stand to reason that the fighting type thralls should be redone for the same reason? It’s inconsistent to not do so.

I’m not certain what they can do to balance things better. They could have base ratings and values equivalent for all factions. This however would seem to pretty much take any uniqueness away from all thralls. Any t4 from any area or faction would be just as good as any other. I feel like this would not go over well with the community though. People like unique things.

On the other hand, they could add more RNG into the thrall equation. This way the player doesn’t know what they’re getting until the thrall is out of the wheel. However, I also do not feel like this would go over well with the community. I’ve read a lot of comments where people are already frustrated with the amount of RNG in the game. Maybe this would be different though than what the complaints were/are about?

Another saying is that you cannot please everyone. So I really think that Funcom should stay true to their vision of the game. What that is I do not know. With all the changes they keep making I wonder if Funcom even knows what that vision is. Part of the problem is that different dev teams have different visions/ideas of what they want/wanted the game to be. Most if not all of the original team have moved on to work on other titles. So what we may be seeing with all the changes is the result of changing vision for the game. When I was younger I used to feel like I had to come into a project and “change” things for the better to kind of validate my worth. I realized as I grew older that sometimes the biggest contribution I could make was to not change anything. Change just for the sake of change or to validate one’s worth is almost never a good idea. So maybe that is what’s happening regarding all the changes. I don’t know.

Before I stop this overly long winded post I want to mention that I feel like the only thing they need to change with Teimos is the experience he needs to go up in level. Dalinsia, the 'zerkers and RHTS’s all take a significant amount more of experience to level up. I think Teimos is definitely in the same class as those three. In fact he seems to be significantly better than a Berserker due to the enormous disparity in health.

It’s late and I’m tired. My sleepy head is leaning more and more towards a RNG based system for each thrall if they want to keep all the tiers and subdivisions they currently have in place for thralls. If they want to keep a certain amount of complexity the RNG could be biased so that the harder the npc is to acquire as a thrall the better the chance to get good RNG results. I don’t know.

The one thing I do know is that I really like being able to take thralls. Conan Exiles would not be the same without the ability to take and command thralls.

[stelagel]

You are very right. Your post appeals ideas that I would happily accept as changes. I do understand that Teimos is a really serious reason to visit more than once buccaneers bay. And ofcurce if someone plays pvp and build there, though his base I away from obelisks the Teimos advantage covers the difficulties. In the past, while I was playing pvp with a clan, we happened to build there. Teimos was not the shame ofcurce . That is the only reason I agree with the npcs buff, still it is not balanced. Mei the blade is a really good thrall, rare and very well balanced. I just happen to disagree that the rare thralls cannot be better than the usual. Besrsekers were op and very easy to farm, very easy. So I happen to agree for the nerf they gained. I don’t know, I have lack of knowledge how things are valuated by the gaming company, but what I know is the simple, harder to get should have better outcome, because this is fair, nothing else .

[SPbxGhost]

I think that the rebalance requires only fighters from the purges (and the purges in General) and Teimos (chieftains maybe). Otherwise, the stats of other fighters are quite consistent with their factions (position on the map).

About top: berserkers, afroberserkers and RHTS all have a comparable damage score on 20 lvl (270 CrD without equip), and HP roughly corresponds to a fraction, there is no reason to change anything.

About RHTS bosses: why make them available for capture? If you do, what should be the stats? Why, in the presence of bosses, do you need regular RHTS?

(i using translator)

[stelagel]

@SPbxGhost, Welcome to the community. Thank you for your support .

[Laure]

I wouldn’t suggest a nerf but I do also believe that purge thralls need to be at least as good as Teimos. T4 thralls should represent their faction with something better than starting stats to make them special and fun to use.

I think I understand the actual stats and purpose of each thralls and I also have a couple of other theories regarding their stats.

Teimos isn’t great out of the wheel, but amazing at lvl 20 and easy to level. He’s the best choice for building base defenses relatively quickly with a bit of grind. It’s so easy it’s ridiculous. But I think such a thrall is necessary ! Everyone can access this simple and easy relatively good base defenses and we need that, bases are too easy to wipe, thralls are too easy to slaughter. Mass producing a thrall like Teimos even as a solo player is a necessity imo.

The only non sense I can’t accept is that purge thralls are that bad compared to Teimos, they should be incredible, legendary !

I’d like to see more value in all other thralls without making them gods. I’m thinking of something like perks that make them very special, and something that is relevant to their faction/race.
They already have different stats but I’m thinking of something that makes a bigger difference, like, this one got extra armor, this one doesn’t bleed, this one is immune to gaz but slow af. So people can make their choice depending of what they need.

So for now we got Teimos as the best choice to build an army. I didn’t want to level him because I fear a nerf and I don’t want to level another 50 thralls later. But it took me so little time to level him to 20, I could have my 50 lvl 20 Teimos by the end of this week, so let’s go !
Plus my new RP character has a little bit of Star Wars vibes and 50 Teimos could be my clones army. I like the idea

For now all the other thralls have different purpose I think.
Berserker and RHTS are great out of the wheel and can be used for urgencies like : “damn imma get purged this evening and that little outpost has no protection”.

Need a thrall quick to help you kill stuff while leveling/farming ? Get a berserker, no need to lvl it to 20 but he’ll reach 20 eventually.
Need quick defenses ? RHTS, lvl 0 is enough.
Have some time to level 50 thralls and have long term defense in your base ? Go Teimos until his nerf.

The “best” thralls/pet keeps changing. I think that’s a way to add longevity to the game without adding content. Change the meta and competitive/completist people will always want to play more to get the new best stuff.

The character I played I think right after we got the leveling system had 20 Dalinsias, 30 Berserkers. All level 20 with the good perks. I thought I was “done” and that I could chill on other games. But when the thrall nerf hit us, I was really unhappy with my Berserkers and started leveling RHTS to replace them.

See, without even adding content they got me to play again and grind again for weeks.
So by changing the meta with what appears to us like bugs or illogical stats, they actually keep us in the game, smh…

[stelagel]

@Laure, Well, I can’t really agree with you, I can see more logical reasons for this thrall to be so strong for several reasons. One reason that never mentioned is the use that the thralls have after lvl 20. For me they are just house residents, with names, light beautiful clothes, relaxing .
Teimos is a mini boss so he must be strong .
We can find excuses and reasons all day long why Teimos is strong, still. Purge thralls, that coming from difficult areas must be stronger, heroes must be heroes. Purge cooks must cook more recipes than the lone fisherman. Dalinsia must have miniboss health and greater difficulty for captivity. She is a rare spawn but so easy to knock down, why? Rare means, difficult, means awesome. That is the balance I ask, because this is fair. If we don’t have this balance then the game loose, not the sick farmers (me), the game.

[SireneLoreley]

You know, right now I’m playing on Siptah with a random t3 fighter… And I like it. 1.1 dmg mod, I don’t feel useless compared to my thrall and actually take part in fights and overall gameplay. I don’t know how will it be on late game with t4 thrall and the best in slot gear, but for now I feel like it is the balance that works nice for me. I wish thralls weren’t so overpowered on Exiled Lands… I can stay still while my Teimos rips everything apart in my glory, but I must really cooperate with my t3 relic hunter on Siptah and I would keep so because t4 modifiers are ~1.3-1.65

[Laure]

stelagel my friend, you start saying you disagree and then you say the same as me haha. Read me again, we pretty much agree. Are you mad I started leveling Teimos ? My main point was the same as you : Purge thralls need to be the true Heroes.

I also do agree that Dalinsia should have more HP. Because that’s their racial trait, they’re vitality beasts and having a Teimos with 18k HP and a Dalinsia with 9k HP makes no sense to me.

We all agree that the thrall nerf is a good thing and that Teimos and Dalinsia don’t fundamentally need 15k HP. It’s just a matter of balance and being rewarded for our efforts : hard to level/rare thralls = champions. That’s the only logic I’d like to see.

I wouldn’t even mind the damage being nerfed again. I used a lot of tanky bearers that hit like a wet noodle and I’m very happy with them. But please switch T3/T4 health ratio asap so I know what to level, I feel uneasy keeping them in a chest waiting to know if their will be a retroactive fix or not.

As for the recipes being exclusive to purge thralls I can’t agree. Some solo players cannot fill their purge meter, that means they will NEVER access the recipe. To some it’s justice, it’s fair, to me it’s sad as it’s a game and everyone should be able to have as much fun. I’m glad we have the lone fisherman for extra recipes and witch doctor for black and white dyes.

[stelagel]

@Laure, Omg I thought I right I can really agree, sorry, I type wrong, thanks for noticing . Ofcurce I agree with you, lol.

[stelagel]

But nobody asks this. If all the thralls were even lower it would be better. I don’t care if I have a thrall or not I charge first in the fight. Still there are bosses that do unspeakable dmg so I kill them once for honor but never come back. I like to do the fights and I am very happy with the nerf, very happy and I want more nerf. Still what bothers all of us is the balance of the thralls .