Updated ToC, finally

Conan Exiles General Discussion
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Official Servers - Terms of conduct, guidelines and procedures:

Yes finally, they have done it. Updated the ToC that has been a much discussed matter of contention since its hard inception of Fall 2021 and updated in August of 2022.

While there’s been little communication about the matter there was one instance that I received a direct reply back in October 2022 that they were aware that there were issues and were working on it.

Allright, so I’ve re-read the new version many times throughout the day and never kept an older copy so I had to think a bit about some of the changes. While this is not perfect and there’s still room for improvement, this is a step in the right direction.

This was asked for a few times recently:

I have to stress this is well intentioned but it will be swatted away. Ok it is what it is.

I’m sorry, this needs to go, it’s been pretty much the same forever and still creates doubt, confusion and lack of trust in us as players. Tell us what you want, we’re not mind readers. Many of us have asked for clarity and while this update to the ToC is appreciated, it still falls short. This sentence begets the ideal that everyone can interpret the information as you do… “spirit”? Just plain words is better. Not the specific wording? What does that even mean?? Please Funcom, I’m not stupid, please don’t treat me like I am.

Pros:
Addition of wording about blocking and walling off others’ bases and expansions. Awesome.

Cons:
Still does not explain what is “too much” but at least it’s not as vague as it used to be. Or is “too much” no longer a consideration?

Also still missing the part about blocking off pathways… yes people have been suspended/banned for that. Which are considered pathways? Is it the cave beside the Arena at Sinkhole on Exiled Lands only because there’s a ghost inside? Is it Crevice in the Highlands or is that only because some people overbuild there preventing others from discovering the POI? What about the small passage from the croc near Sinkhole to the Black Galleon? Is that considered a pathway? Or does it not matter because it is not in here?

Pros:
A couple of additions especially including stalking. Talking from experience.

Cons:
Can’t really see much here that is “objectionable” hehe, ok I’ll shut up.

Pros:
… … … … … … …

Cons:

This is great and all but doesn’t actually address the rampant issue of hacks in general. I know that there’s a lot of background work done but it should be prevented before it is allowed to fester. Sometimes it can take weeks before the fix catches up for hacks and in the meanwhile the rest of the players are suffering. For exploits it can take MONTHS despite continued reports for bugs and through Zendesk. I get this is well meaning to clarify what is expected but it does little for my faith in fixing or addressing these problems.

Pros:
Very important for those taking part in the various purchasing mechanisms. Now there will be one place to look for this information instead of many banging their heads in the forums and the moderators having to take extra time to direct.

Cons:
None.

Pros:
Huge! It’s been a long time since we’ve seen something like this, it’s clear, obvious and sets expectations.

Cons:
It doesn’t state how many non-serious infractions are incurred before a permanent ban. Most invested in this subject understand it to be a 3 strikes your out process. I.e.,: Landclaim 1 suspension, Landclaim 2 suspension, Landclaim 3 perma ban.

Also, there needs to be an option in Zendesk for suspension/ban inquiries. While we are supposed to receive the in game message for the infraction, it does not explain why and often does not even work.

Pros:
Actually tells you what is expected in a clearly defined list.

Cons:
Why is the sentence for refunds of “property”? caused by infraction under this section, shouldn’t it be elsewhere? Like under “Information on suspensions and bans”?

Pros:
… … … … …

Cons:

What does this mean exactly? You wait until they pile up? Is this a factor in delays?? Are they considered only when there’s multiple? Does this mean the amount of reports has an influence in the decision?

What. This honestly looks like a lot of word salad to me. Not the good kind either.

Pros:
… … … . … . . . . … . . . .

Cons:
Ok, this hasn’t changed nor explains how false reports are even addressed. Additionally, how would you punish those that create false reports if they can provide any email they want that is not tied to their Funcom ID?

Pros:
Does give info immediately without having to make a post and a moderator giving the info and locking the thread.

Cons:
Most of the time the in game message does not work.
Unless the in game message actually explains what has happened other than “Blocking of content or resources to prevent other players… etc” type statements. We need to know what exactly is it. Is it a rock? A tree? A goat? The entire south jungle?

All in all it can be worse, like it used to be. There’s always room for improvement but I am happy there has been some significant work done here, thanks!

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Nope, timing myself out for a week, 5 more days to go. I want in on this but…

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I can’t believe I’m still seeing people gripe about this.

You’re right, this particular sentence needs to go. It needs to be replaced with something along the lines of “we will enforce the spirit of the rules, even if you find a loophole in the specific wording of these rules”.

Not that it will stop people here from complaining, but at least the message will be clear.

They’re not. They’re treating you like you’re an adult who knows how life works, can understand what the rules are trying to prevent, and can apply your own judgment when deciding what to do.

I’ll be the first to agree that there are edge cases that need to be clarified, and we should keep asking about those. But come on, let’s stop pretending that we don’t know what “spirit of the rules” means and why it’s there.

I mean, even if they completely remove any mention of it, that won’t change their policies. They will still enforce the spirit of the rules instead of the mere letter. The sentence you’re complaining about is there to warn every genius out there who think they’re the first ones to think of a clever way to break the rules without “really” breaking them.

What “too much” are we talking about here? “Too much” was never a consideration. Loss of performance on both client and server side was always there, and it still is. The only thing they did was reword it to be even clearer, because people kept clinging to their misinterpretation of the previous wording:

Everyone kept insisting – despite plenty of evidence to the contrary – that this meant that the rules forbid both “massive construction” and “over-use of memory-intensive items leading to loss of performance both on client and server-side”. Instead, as we can see from the revised rules, the correct interpretation was that the rules forbid both “massive construction leading to loss of performance both on client and server-side” and “over-use of memory-intensive items leading to loss of performance both on client and server-side”.

So, when is it “too much”? When it leads to loss of performance both on client and server.

How do we know? Welp, that’s the big problem, isn’t it? Sadly, no solution for that yet :frowning:

Yeah, and it also needs to clarify what “blocking” means. Specifically, they need to clarify whether a building with open doors is blocking something if there’s no way to “use” that something without going inside the building.

To me, it’s pretty damn logical to say that it is, because I can close the doors any time I want, cutting off the access, and nobody can do anything about it. The admins can’t even see in the logs whether I closed the doors at any point, so if you report me with the doors closed and the admins come in and see the doors open, they can’t check the logs to see if you were right.

Yeah, this really needs to improve. If they collect as much information as they say they do and “maintain context for how play is developing on the server”, then it shouldn’t be too hard to provide a proper explanation. If it doesn’t fit inside the in-game message, then they need to do this:

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I get it that there’s a lot of nuance to language. This is written in English. I am a native English speaker and can both speak and write in business language for English. But what about people who don’t even speak English? What does this mean for them that they can’t pick up on those little implied meanings?

Then they should just say this.

Yup which makes me think of my most recent post about Black Ice building pieces…

Bingo!

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In my opinion an improvement is an improvement. We cannot expect perfection. You have brought up a couple good points where things still have room for improvement, and hopefully in the next iteration of the ToS those issues will be address, but this is still an improvement none the less.

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They could have the rules translated and that would definitely be nice, but I don’t think this is about implied nuances that require you to be highly proficient in the language in which the rules were written.

I believe this is about warning people that they can’t get away with breaking the spirit of the rules while staying true to the letter of the rules.

Let me give you a contrived example. We know that in the upcoming Age of War, there will be treasures that you can find in the world. Let’s say someone builds a no-climb wall around a treasure spot, but doesn’t encircle it completely. Instead, they leave an opening in the wall, an opening that leads to deep water. You can’t get in or out of the enclosed area without swimming.

Did they block the spot? They can claim they didn’t, because there’s an opening in the wall. Thing is, you can’t swim with treasure. The treasure is still accessible, but you can’t take it away. “But I didn’t block the spot!”

Don’t get me wrong: there will be legitimate edge cases and grey areas. Like the thing I keep mentioning with open doors and blocking. They should clarify cases where people genuinely disagree and aren’t clear on the spirit of the rules.

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The ToS is fine. It only is not fine if you aim to break it. This isn’t a book on law. For a game, it’s more than explicit.

Blocking includes making the access to a certain important point more difficult than it should be.
Important means important and includes POI, rare resources, world bosses, thrall spawns, animal cubs, etc. If people don’t know what important means, there’s nothing more I can say.

Same goes for massive. Don’t waste space just because you feel like it. Build smart and optimize your space. It doesn’t have to be crammed, but you’re not a freaking sultan. So, don’t act like you are on official servers. Leave that to Single Player.

Hacks are not easy to deal with. There’s not much Funcom can do about it. Unless law starts criminalizing these activities, they are here for the long run.

Exploits. These are inevitable. Hard punishment is the only way to deal with them.

People need to use common sense and question themselves if winning in pvp or opulent building on pve justify losing the privilege to play on official servers.

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There is still work to do but it is moving in the right direction ,too bad it’s so long.

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I do wonder if anyone has ever been punished for making a false report.

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This.

As said, a game server isn’t a governmental system of laws and constitutions. Its a place for people to play and have fun. The rules exist as a simple guidelines to that effect. Sort of like a fast food place with an ‘Order Here’ section and a ‘Pick Up’ section. Players don’t need specifics as they simply need to behave themselves. The specifics are for the one’s who enforce the rules as a sort of centralized standards.

But why do some players want those specifics? So they can get as close to the line as they can without crossing it and even crossing it when they think they can get away with it. This is out of disrespect for other players as well as the ones running the server (any server, not just Funcom’s). And this is by their own word, calling the servers, the rules, and their fellow players’ experiences a joke and a game. They think its funny when they break a rule and another suffers. They get their giggles off when they can do so and be able to claim its within their right in the rules. They want to meme their gilded, juvenile, livestock.

To put it shortly, when you have a rule that states, “Don’t be a jerk.” And you have players ask what that means (and there isn’t a language barrier), that is NOT the sort of player you want on your server. Whether the question is serious or not. Adults should know better, especially considering it is adults who define it.

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I’m glad they are making revisions by listening to feedback, however it won’t be prompting my return to officals in the near future.

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Absolutely! I am glad that we’re moving in the right direction :slight_smile:

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Just keep in mind that my issue with it isn’t what you or I believe is the implied message. I think you’re bang on with what it means, I am of the same opinion.

But not everyone is going to understand that. It’s like saying “I want you to do these things but I’m not going to tell you exactly what these things are and I might change my mind”.

We’ve come this far, it can be better. Simple, straightforward “if you use the rules to your advantage to cause problems” with a few examples, type deal is sufficient.

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I never have. Why do I still have issues with it?

Bud you should know by now I’ve taken a keen interest in the ToC, Zendesk, the entire process :slight_smile:

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Personally i think now that funcom have officially updated there terms on what land claim abuse is , i think they should give players the opportunity to lift there suspensions . But sadly this wont happen so me and others will need to continue playing on alt accounts and wont be able to purchase any new content :v:

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With a respect.
But this new ToC makes no sense.

My team got banned for a 9 by 9 war pyramid at brimstone. You know the place where most pvp clans make their fobs.

The ban was 14 days and they did respond on my appeal after 20 days! (Yes my ban was already lifted at that time.)

They gave me the reason ‘Claim spam’.

So besides maybe blocking a branch on the ground, there is nothing to be blocked close to brimstone.

If this way of interaction with reports stay how it is. Then nobody can make a base or fob. On any base location there is either a branch, rock, plant fiber or anything that can be considered as a spawn point of a resource.

Besides all this, the updated ToC says that claim spawn is a 7 days ban. So why in the first place did my team get banned for 14 days? :man_shrugging:

How do they handle fake reports, when their respond time on a appeal already took 20 days.

I love the game, i love the community and i like making content of the game. But i never will support the way they designed their report system or atleast the way the handle reports.

SitOrRageQuitLOL

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The new TOS and suspension duration layout seems great!

However, I am currently on my 6th day of a suspension that falls square in the “7 day” category.

This is my FIRST EVER suspension.

Now, it is telling me my suspension is up another 6 days from now. How is a “7 day” suddenly a 12-13day? Is there a way to have reinstatement day adjusted to fit the clear 7-day per the policy?

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There is nothing they can do to alleviate that doubt. The problem with any communication is that there is always going to be uncertainty. Even in detailed laws, you have to hire specific people trained to navigate and ability to argue intent of the law to get anywhere. They are acknowledging a spirit of the rule is the guiding principle of enforcement vs letter of the ‘law’ as it were. That actually helps you in appealing decisions more than not as you can plead the case of intent.

I think they are tiptoeing around how to define the “spirit” but the further detailing continues to support my original declaration…Don’t use the building system to grieve others. That is not it’s purpose. Bombs, avatars, and player interactions are what you use for those.

Agreed. This needs fleshed out a bit more.

The way I read it is that there are still a huge amount of servers and a small team of investigators so reports are building up and they look at the # of reports each server has as a means to gauge what needs their attention more.

And that is a great idea…that you have to use your FC ID email or the report is ignored.

But with that, it’s negligent to not tell us what the intent of the gameplay is supposed to be. It’s hard to follow the spirit if there is a flat out refusal to formally address what that direction we should all have is.

Well I know it when I get glitches in the Matrix things. Rubber banding, texture loss, etc. If I get that around my base but not in other areas, then I know to adjust the base.

I don’t think ‘spirit of the law’ is solely an English thing.

OK I have to disagree here. If you have a gate up that could block but it’s open so its a grey area? No. just don’t build there. If you can close it up, it needs to be considered blocked regardless if it’s open or not.

But we need a list of exploits that are not allowed vs creative building techniques. If I apply a single hatch door via ceiling stack to an elevator to create a single door to my elevator, is that an exploit?

There needs to be some kind of compromise because FC does have an obligation to define (even in vague terms) these standards they wish to use as their expectations of play on enforcement. Exploits vs what is allowed (ceiling stacking vs using fence foundation staggering of foundation are identical in methodologies with one being seen as an exploit and the other as using the build system creatively) need to be detailed. If spirit of play is being used, then we need to know what’s the intent of play so we can follow the spirit of play.

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The only fair recourse IMO is to mass lift suspensions (not bans) because MANY of us now falling into the 7 day suspension are still dealing with 14. At 14 you lose LITERALLY EVERYTHING. Is that fair?

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No more than anyone operating their own private server in my opinion. Players are guests and should just be mindful not to wear out their welcome.

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