Okay I see where you got the 7% now, it is from an example of two specific thralls at a specific point in their leveling. That aside, you don’t multiply two multipliers together and you can see from his results (after he tries to add Armor Penetration) that @Wak4863’s math is wrong.
Wak4863 posted the following:
Berserker has a damage modifier of 2.24 swinging a star metal great sword with 58 damage and 19 ap
2.24 * .07 = .1568
2.24 * 58 = 129.92
129.92 + 0.1568 = 130.0768
Swinging on an unarmored target light attack did 140
130.0768 + 19 = 140.00 with some rounding.
RHTS has a damage modifier of 2.21 with the same sword 58 damage and 19 ap
2.21 * .07 = 0.1547
2.21 * 58 = 128.18
128.18 + 0.1547 = 128.3347
Swinging on an unarmored target with a light attack 138
128.3347 + 19 = 138 with in game rounding again.
I like Wak4863 and his videos but there are too many variables to consider a real world example like he did and he knew it which is why he tried to add AP to the equation.
128.3347 + 19 = 147 (no amount of rounding makes this 138)
130.0768 + 19 = 149 (no amount of rounding makes this 140)
I believe the 7% STR modifier we have been discussing is multiplicative (not additive). Multiplicative means it is multiplied by the damage separate from any other multipliers. Additive means it is added to another multiplier to make that multiplier larger before it is then multiplied by the damage.
Two separate multipliers looks like this:
Hopefully this makes it more clear. It is true that the thralls’ hidden multipliers are much more important than their Str bonuses. Many have argued that Funcom should get rid of hidden multipliers so players can actually see the difference their thralls’ Str makes.
Thanks for that info. So, in your recommendation, would the melee damage multiplier be most important (somewhat obviously), and then the SMDB be second most?
What does the actual strength stat do for their damage?
Let’s just say (not possible, but let’s just say) a lvl. 0 thrall has 50% SMDB, with 1 strength point.
Let’s then say a lvl 0 thrall has 50 strength but only 10% SMDB.
Is the strength stat doing anything, or is it just a value? I’m not understanding what it does for thralls.
It adds damage as we have just demonstrated above, however, it doesn’t add the same amount for every thrall faction and tier and it doesn’t add much (compared to the hidden multiplier). This, of course, only makes it more confusing for players to try and pick the best thrall for their needs, as some players don’t even know that the hidden multipliers exist, making their decision solely based on Str modifiers.
Having a higher Str number, by itself, means nothing. However, thralls gain their percent Str bonus based on how much Str they have, so if you have two of the exact same thrall (wearing the exact same gear), then the one with the higher Str will also have the higher Str modifier (the modifier is what maters). When you try to compare thralls from different factions and different tiers, they will likely get different bonuses from their Str stat, which again makes it more difficult for a player to choose wisely.
In simple words, only by experience @kmanmott and not from calculations, a Spinas the marauder no mater the stats and the numbers will always hit harder than a Lian with 80 strength. So leave the math to the side and farm this thrall so your mind will be less confused but your follower will always hit like a truck. But…, don’t forget that the hp of the thrall sometimes is the wining key, but sometimes not always, that’s why I invest to this thrall only, rare and rewarding.
Thanks man. Yeah I actually don’t believe personally that HP is the end all be all when it comes to thralls, because you most likely never even see you level 20 thrall take 2,000 damage or anywhere near that. Only time that they could lose that is Arena Champion and she’s not even all that worth it.
I much prefer thralls that are going to kill things faster rather than “survive longer.”
How’s a RHTS, Cimmerian Berserker or Dalinsia compare to Spinas? Also, is it only Spinas and not the other T4 volcano thralls?
From my experience, nothing or better Nobody hits like him. Daicas is rare too but he is like Eri or Kisthis(I never spell this name correctly, sorry). Yesterday I went to war makers dungeon because I was preparing a character from a different account to send him on Siptah. So I had My last untrained Spinas with me, ofcurce not so untrained because until we reach the final boss he went lvl 20. I do not use sword of Crom on my trained thralls, it’s slow, I use the adventurers blade, strong and swift. So after I opened the four doors with the rusty keys I ordered him attack so I can roll a cigarette, I believe the fight ended in less than 30 sec, so I started yelling to my thrall to give me a break . He is like nothing else, he worth it.
All 4 named volcano thralls have the exact same starting stats and multipliers but Spinas appears to be the most rare and therefore most people like him best as a sort of trophy or status symbol.
He hits stronger than all the others no matter the stats and that’s a fact, in this point I will not stand back and it is not my imagination either my “love” for this thrall.
I actually reverse engineered the math to come up with the increase per point in strength. Also at the time of making that video I’m pretty confident that there was a bug that was adding the AP on targets without armor.
However it’s much easier math the way you put the equation.
At the end of the day I always saw 2 camps or trains of thought come out. One camp swears by HP and the other by damage. The key is to find what works for you. I still go with the cimmerian berserker because they have the highest damage multiplier and enough health to defeat anything in the exiled lands.
Right now, Strength and Accuracy stats are basically a placebo.
Depends on the thrall. And no there isn’t any listing (that is current to my knowledge). What this means is 30 STR on a Dalansia will be different than 30 STR on a Relic Hunter Treasure Seeker.
This affects all Attributes as well. Strength, Accuracy, Agility, Vitality… maybe not Survival, but I haven’t done tests on that. But the tier and tribe your thrall comes from dictates what they get from each attribute.
Pretty the best bang for your buck is either a Relic Hunter Treasure Seeker, named Volcano thralls, or a Dalansia Snowhunter. They all have 2.2+ DMM (damage modifier melee as it is called in the console).
If you ever need to see the DMM or DMR ingame, and have admin active, using:
So with all that said. Its important to say that this system is garbage. We’re having to use Wiki’s, Devkits, and Console commands to determine what a thrall is capable of. We should be able to look at the Thrall Stats page and see everything that is needed.
What needs to happen with followers in general is the REMOVAL of the Melee and Ranged hidden stats. Either remove them from the equation or set them to 1.0 across the board so they don’t have any bearing.
Next standardize the attributes, every thrall should get the same percentage in damage from each point of Strength/Accuracy as every other thrall. The same thing for armor from Agility and Health from Vitality.
Finally they need to change the attributes so that Tier and Tribe merely give the thralls better starting Attributes and higher growth chances. This way improved attributes (that we can see easily) are what make some thralls better than others.
Pretty much this.
While 5-10 extra damage doesn’t mean much against a boss, it can mean the difference between 1 or 2 hitting normal mobs. So use the damage thrall for general farming.
But on bosses you want every ounce of Health you can as the bonuses are stacked because of armor. If your thall has 1000 armor, they have 80% DR. This means attacks that deal 100 damage only deal 20 per hit (assuming no AR). This boosts your 8,000hp thrall to having 32,000 eHP (effective Hitpoints). But a 10,000hp thrall gets 40,000 eHP. That means a hard hitting boss that normally hits for around 400 damage will take an extra 5 hits to kill your thrall over one with 2000 less health. For bosses that hit that hard, 5 attacks is a long time.
I’ve stated before that Perks don’t matter, and well they usually don’t. But if you can get Godly Vigor, Blessed, Redeemed, or Hallowed (or any combination thereof). Then you’ve hit the jackpot. Those are the perks you want over all else for those tanky thralls.
For your damage thralls, you’ll want Strength perks obviously. But its no problem if they don’t get them as a Pork Rind will overcome any benefit a good set of perks would give anyway. Even having both would be a negligible difference. Could even argue you still want Vitality perks in this case so the thrall can kill for longer between rest.
Thanks man, appreciate the info. The best thrall I’ve ever gotten was a Accursed Berserker with Relentless, Born Warrior and Redeemed for +23 vit and +3 strength. On top of the insane armor and weapons he had in Siptah he basically killed things just by looking at them.
How certain we are that we do not miss something here. We know about multipliers and hidden multipliers, and how differently the thralls can grow from normal grow to Insta growth, yet, are we sure that we discovered all the details about them. I have a weird feeling that something is still missing. Any ideas what that would be?
