Which archer thrall is the best? Apparently a chance to increase accuracy on levelup depends on a thrall's faction

So I’ve been testing different named and T3 archer/warrior thralls and discovered a consistent pattern. It is not just attributes distribution depends on thrall faction, but it’s a chance to increase this attribute depends on faction as well.

Black Hand thralls have the highest chance to increase accuracy on level up. I’ve summoned hundreds of T3 and T4 black hand archers and they had a very high chance to roll 80-100% for accuracy. Besides that, they have the highest starting accuracy value. 15 for T3 and 30 for T4. Even though Black Hands have a lower than other factions damage modifiers, they are still the best option, because at level 20 your thrall will end up with more damage per shot due to a higher accuracy.

Dogs of the Desert are great archers as well. They start with 15/30 accuracy as well. They have a higher than Black Hands accuracy multiplier, but their chance to increase accuracy on levelup is lower. I’ve tested hundreds of them as well and I got less 100%s and more 40%s than from BlackHands. Probably it’s just a random’s imprecision.

Relic Hunters, despite the highest accuracy multiplier are the worst. They not just start with lower accuracy but have a very low chance to increase accuracy on level up. Only once I managed to summon a thrall with more than 60% chance to increase accuracy on level op. Most of the time it’s 40-50. Lissa o’ the Longbow looks promising, but after 3-5 levelups any Black Hand archer thrall will outdamage her.

Other factions (volcano and purge thralls included) are not worth of your attention. The easiest and the fastest way to get a good archer is to grab some named (or even T3) Black Hand (Galleon) or Dogs (The Den) archers. It’s relatively easy to reroll them until you get 86/100 per cent chance to increase accuracy on levelup.

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You sure about that? Because the ranged multiplier has a big difference.

Lissa or Mandhugai have 3.36 multiplier (same like RHTS and volcano archers) and 20 ACC.

But Galter or Iekika (Black hands) have only 2.352 with 30 ACC.

Thats a massive difference compared to fighters-most dmg (Lian and Cim/Volcano). There you have 3.9(2) and 3.4125 (Lian/Janos). Also the STR is 15 higher and not 10 like ACC (Lian/Janos have 30 STR; the others 15).

And how did you test? Did you make them to lvl20 or did you only look, which have a higher % chance? Because from my leveling experience, even 100% is not always a point…

Edit: But yeah, can also confirm that Sepermeru archers have always horrible % in ACC… I threw so many away. A nightmare.

Edit2: Also the thrall re-balance. Does it cut all multipliers the same?

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I used a calculator :slight_smile: But after your comment I decided to make field tests and discovered that actual damage numbers doesn’t match those from my sheet. I double checked my calculations and came to a conclusion that there are some hidden base damage stats, because Lissa does more damage than she should, and Galter does less damage than he should.

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The hidden damage modifiers can be found on the Wiki page. See the “STR Mult” and “ACC Mult” columns on the table.

Looking at that table, Du’neman the Dragoon is pretty impressive, with a base ACC of 30 and a 2.52 ACC multiplier. Then we have the T4 Relic Hunters (Lissa, Mangudhai and Treasure Seeker archers) who have a base ACC of 20 and a 3.36 multiplier. The multiplier’s significance grows with levels as Accuracy grows.

It’s also possible that there are other modifiers to damage we’re not aware of - visible percentages may not be accurate because the actual formula for calculating damage may be more complicated, and game developers are notoriously bad with numbers.

Also, as far as I know, no-one has collected the STR and ACC multipliers of non-named thralls, so any anomalies you discover while testing T3’s may be caused by some of them having weird multipliers. Looking at the table for T4’s already shows that we have some inconsistencies within factions.

So if you want to continue with empirical testing, I’d definitely try to compare Du’neman with Relic Hunter T4’s and maybe one of the non-Purge Black Hand archers and see how they perform.

And yes, increasing Accuracy by leveling up has a major random element that makes any predictions inaccurate.

No, it’s not it. There is something else, because even with those numbers Thralls do more damage than they should

Figures. As I said above, I’ve suspected for some time that there’s another modifier that isn’t obvious because there seems to be anomalous difference in thrall performance. Precise testing is difficult, though, because thralls have an annoying tendency to miss many attacks or randomly lose their interest in fighting at all, stow their weapon in their Eega Beeva pockets and start walking back towards me. Or just stand around admiring the scenery while I’m fighting for my life.

Four NPCs are ganging up on me
“Hey, Enica! A little help here!”
Thrall not moving, or equipping a weapon.
“Hmm… Is that a haematopota pluvialis I see on that branch? No, its eyes are the wrong shade. Could this be a new, unknown species? Oh, sorry boss, what were you saying? Could you wait a bit, I’m kinda busy here.”

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Hello everyone! Don’t forget that we messed up their heads in the weel of pain! Poor thralls!!!

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And hitting them repeatedly on the head with a steel bludgeon during the initial recruitment negotiations is also a potential cause for inconsistent, even irrational, behavior.

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:smile::joy::smile::joy::joy:

I used a hyena. Stripped Hyena to be precise. So, I calculate thrall damage on sheet first. Knowing hyena’s HP and armor values I can predict, how many hits it will take to kill a hyena. Then I take a thrall, give him/her a weapon for which I was calculating expected damage and watch, how many hits it takes to kill a hyena.

My calculations showed that 5 level Lissa O’ Longbow should kill a hyena with three shots, and 5 lvl Galter of Bossonia should kill a hyeana with two shots (using the same weapon). But in fact Galter kills a hyena with four shots, and Lissa with two. I take into account accuracy/strength, accuracy/strength multiplier from wiki, weapon damage, arrow damage, armor piercing, and hyena’s stats (hp and armor).

No matter how many hyenas I summon, they always kill them with the same pattern. They can miss, of course, but when they hit, they hit evenly.

How do I know my calculations are correct? Because when I calculate the same values for my character and then test, I kill hyena with precise amount of hits that were predicted. Either STR/ACC Mults on the Wiki page are incorrect, or there is a hidden damage stat that affects the output damage.

PS
Did you know that if you don’t give arrows to the archer thralls, they will spawn a stone arrow into their inventory prior each shot? But if you give them arrows they will spend those. Give them arrows if you want to increase their damage even more (in an even more unpredictable way)

I suspect the formula to calculate damage is different for players and NPCs, especially when it comes to any percentual increases.

I also suspect that there’s a damage modifier based on Faction or Tier (or both) that is separate from the individual multiplier shown on the wiki page. This would explain why your Black Hand dude does less damage than expected and your Relic Hunter does more.

But this is all speculation, and I hate speculation without all the evidence.

So, I made an extensive hyena-testing. I tested how many damage different thralls do to hyena on 0 lvl and on 20 lvl using the same weapon and arrows. Here is the results:

Here you can see hyena’s health bars after one or two shots. I still don’t entirely understand how the damage is calculated and what this “accuracy multiplier” actually means. But the hyena test showed that damage calculations for thralls works pretty consistently. See Mandughai’s damage on lvl 0 with 20 accuracy and Anos’ and Markos’ damage on 20 lvl with 20 accuracy. They did the same amount of damage to hyena. Also, note differences between Du’neman’s and Galter’s damage values. The difference stayed the same for 0 and 20 lvls. This proves that damage increase is flat.

But there is one noticeable exception. Mandughai does more damage than Lissa on 0 level, but does the same damage as Lisa on 20 lvl. Probably there is a glitch, or something.

Also note that despite having the same stats and accuracy multiplier as Lissa and Mandughai, Relic Hunter Treasure Seeker does significantly more damage than Lissa and Mandughai. Basically, on 0 level Ralic Hunter does the same damage as Lassa does on 20. This proves that there are hidden stats that we don’t see.

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If I remember correctly @Wak4863 had a video/livestream, where the calculation was kinda “figured” out.
From the title alone it could be this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcvG46gzYlY

The problem archers can have/produce: How do you know, when they are using the “power” shot and when not?
Because at least for fighters, the heavy attack ADDS the weapon-dmg on top of your normal dmg.

Because there shouldnt be any other hidden things anymore, besides the multiplier. So it makes no sense that archers from the same faction make different dmg, except one used the “power” shot and one not, resulting in different dmg from 1 arrow.

But thanks anyway for your testing :smiley:

I am currently enslaving a crap ton of Du’nemans :smiley: Built a temp-outpost extra for that…

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While testing, I figured that. When thrall uses a powershot he pulls a string longer and the sound is specific. Louder and recognisable. They use it very rarely. When I tested, I let one thrall kill a hyena 5-8 times to be sure. When I discovered that Relic Hunter Treasure Seeker does a lot of damage, she killed a hyena with one shot. This was a wow moment. Because other thrall did two shots at leat to kill a hyena. When suddenly there is a oneshot. I was like wtf. It was a powershot. Then I tested her extensively. I tested 10 different spawns of this type of thralls making sure that this is not a mistake. I’m telling you. I spend two days killing hyenas :smiley:

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Then it would be kinda weird, that archers have another “hidden” thing, but fighters not…

I hate all my archers in general… Because funny thing, I have a bad leveled volcano fighter thrall as archer (he has only +ACC perks).
This guy doesnt have the teleport issues, my archers have… While staying in the same position?!

I have tested the T4 Relic Hunters quite a bit out of 10 each these are the best and to be honest as you can see the T3 are just as good imo and hit their mark more often, also they are easier to get.

Even though the base stats on the T4 are better they do not preform better on the wall, if I put the T3 in the same place they will kill the same enemies faster and seem to hit their targets more often but I have not tested them in Test live just in regular game

Not had Du’neman the Dragoon pop for me to est yet.

That guy is a fixed spawn, west of the Den.

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Oh well nice never found that spot before , cool thank you very much @jot29

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Yeah, that’s one reason why I think it’ll be interesting to see Du’Neman’s performance measured and analyzed, because he’s a guaranteed spawn and thus easily accessible for a mid-level T4. (He’s less easy to isolate these days than he used to be, because all his buddies are now hanging out with him, rather than wandering the platform.)

Relic Hunter Treasure Seeker is also a guaranteed spawn. They spawn as boss minions in Unnamed city both fighters and archers. Each boss has at least one archer minion.

Yesterday I’ve built a large wheel of pain next to the Unnamed city and filled all its slots in like 40 minutes. Eight T4 thralls in 40 minutes is quite a result.