Change up combat to enhance the experience

Combat right now feels pretty dull. I think it could be improved in a couple of ways.

  • Sound effects and hit effect. A sword hitting an enemy sounds like a paper clip being thrown at a wall. It’s not impactful and sounds boring. Also, I’d like to see a hit stop effect.

  • Special abilities. Add a system where the player can acquire special attacks that consume stamina. Adding fatalies is the closest you have done so far to a special attack. Add many more similar mechanics. I know some weapons already technically have special-ish attacks. I’m talking more like RPG type abilities with cooldowns.

  • Perk tree should be entirely thrown away and replaced with a skill tree. Something along the lines of God of War. I’ve never really liked how perks function like milestones. I think progression could be made better by not dumping points into specific area to reach a single node.

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This isn’t Arkham Knight, Mortal Kombat or Force Unleashed. Don’t need button spamming super long overly complicated button combos to pull off X move or bloody quick time events.

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Sound is ok, but we have to understand the limitation of it, and why most games featuring multiplayer does not have it. Unless you are meaning to say you want to have different things for multi and single player, ok.
“Perfect sync good quality sound” is not that nice to fit in server game, specially if latency is high. And by high I mean anything over 2 digits, and even 90 would be risk territory to have HQ sound, long composite sound (multichannel reactive sound).

Skill Tree, a Theme Park mechanic that makes “Metagame”, which means it makes much more frequent that it turns into a matter of cookie cutter builds, which in turn makes personality of characters way bland. This is a sandbox game already metagamed more than it should.

Special abilities, the same problem in another scope. “Classes” are a theme park game feature which then makes a railed progression system. Setting that you have “special abilities” triggers a problem of balance. For each special ability you add, you need that others not having it have something to counter it. Then you have to add both other abilities and limitations to those and how to choose them. After a short while you are in Theme Park railing territory which is also “metagamification”. You determine that X, Y and Z abilities synergize and therefore should be taken together, while A, B and C do not, so they should be avoided. Which in turn is a “mirror” to class system in all but name.

If special abilities are not so that they dont determine the identity of a character (ie magic defining mages, maneuvers defining warriors, glamour defining illusionists/mesmers), then they are not different from what the game already has.

All of these things are nice in the games they are nice. But this game is not that game.

Doesn’t seem like you actually read anything I said if you felt the need to curse out “bloody” quick time events in anger. Nowhere did I mention quick time events. Also, this game already involves button spamming. Combat is basically just left and right clicking. There’s nothing else to it. Clearly you have resentment towards games that involve anything more complicated than having to left click the mouse to atttack…

I think my OP was misunderstood given these comments. I wasn’t talking about adding classes either. Take Elden Ring for example, has armament skills players can acquire that give you additional attacks. I’m asking for some kind of mechanic that lets the combat be other than, light attack, and then right attack, and then light, and then right, and then just endlessly repeat this. I think there’s a lot they could do to improve the overall experience.

When you get arthritis, you’ll understand.

I know it isnt.
That is what I said. It becomes like it by implicating the same problems for a similar design. The more “things” you add, the more “things to balance the things” you need to add. Rules, counters, replacers, equivalency. Once you start this path, you might aswell use classes and turn it into a theme park mmo.
The only difference between creating a system of interpolated paths of gameplay and classes is that you dont give specific names to each interpolated build.

And, game development theory aside:
You will never make a game combat not be a repetitive exercise of doing something or other. A IRL fight is the same thing. Movies might show something “aestethic” to attract audiences with impracticle ineffective moves and way too much “telegraphing” and sped up shoot, along with nausea inducing camera cuts and shakes, but fighting is pretty much a repetition of small actions in sequence.
What you are describing is the “illusion of variety” given by the fact that mechanically identical actions are said to be different actions. A hunter arrow in a game and a mage fireball in a game are the exact same action, they have different rules, but they are ranged attacks that either trace or collide to inflict certain damages and certain debuffs or buffs.

What makes a game fighting system tedious or not is not what it mechanically is, but what it seems to be. It is not builds, it is not several names in a board to put in shortcuts that does it, it is the game itself that disguises the tedious nature of the combat into something you feel important, relevant, different or interesting.

If not that, how come the top selling and top playing games are based on even more repetition ?

The problem with the post is that it is a change that does not solve the problem.

Citing other games only further that realization.

Elden Ring is a nice example:
If you get to people who really put thought into it, the majority of them make better arguments for the fact that combat there is BORING. Google Elden Ring Combat is Boring and you will see.
The main thing about Elden ring is not how combat goes, but encounters are designed. The act of combat in itself is as monotone as most games are. You can have 200 spells to choose, what happens is grouping them in sequences you name, which are in a fight probably used interchangebly into “weak”, “strong”, “recuperating” and “finishing”.

People stop thinking about spells and builds the moment combat start, and might as well be light, hard, dodge and finisher blows, and it will be the same thing.

That is why people use addons and scripts in games with lots of spells. Most people dont want to micromanage combat that will become essentially smash buttons. This has been the truth since the long before many of the people talking about it was even born. Dune 2 was a RTS game which actually introduced the idea of tons of bindings you would do “mindlessly” once you decided to do one thing. So Ctrl This, Shift That, X, Y and Z, and you have a base and 4 “workers” gathering resources, wait resources, again some other shitf that ctrl this A, B, C, 20 warriors, Ctrl Tab, Ctrl A, Ctrl F, A , 20 warriors attacking the nearest enemy.

Again, what makes game boring is not the repetitive nature of what you do to control or select what you do, is the design that goes into putting that ALWAYS repetitive process into something exciting.

Elden ring is not different in the repetitive “simple minded” nature of combat, what it has is a “well rounded encounter design” Conan Exiles does not have. Encounter design cannot even be defined by “all you can do” with your character if it can do tons of things, otherwise 90% of your player base will simply “do something else”.

Or do you think everyone playing a game want to have to choose dozens of things and think about dozens of things every single time they want to go fight some big boss ? THAT is what is insane.

I think you are fine. I understand the frustration with the keyboard. I thought the controller settings were enough to make keyboards optional in game. That would be for crossplay (if implemented).

From what I read in this topic, it appears you want to replace a system. That seemed like a red flag. I understand the goal is enhancement.

Personally I’ve lost total interest in Conan. Mostly because there’s many other games with combat/gameplay etc I find more engaging. The game most reminds me of The Witcher 3, especially with light and heavy attacks being the brunt of the combat. But the game also has the signs and some adrenaline abilities to spice it up. I just wish they could find ways to make it better.

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I hear ya. There is still much to do. I haven’t explored everywhere, so I feel there is more. Time is precious.

It’s very difficult for me to converse with this as your English is not great. I had a difficult time understanding any of this. What I gathered of it is just a long rant explaining minute details on things and semantics no one cares for. No one cares that movie fighting is just impractical movements and identical actions. It looks cool. You seem to be trying to justify simple combat in games by explaining everything is just an illusion of something not as complex in reality.

“A hunter arrow in a game and a mage fireball in a game are the exact same action, they have different rules, but they are ranged attacks that either trace or collide to inflict certain damages and certain debuffs or buffs.” None of this is necessary for me to know. Again your trying to explain how game mechanics work on like a scripting level.

My point stands that I think Conan’s combat could be better. But I’ll admit, most survival games have awful combat.

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I would simply like more variety in dismemberment and fatalities.

Furthermore, to reduce the monotomy of battles, perhaps it would be useful to introduce “special abilities” that recharge every few seconds.
Like for example Ignis ti the witcher 3 which made you shoot a flame.

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“perhaps it would be useful to introduce “special abilities” that recharge every few seconds.”

This is exactly what I was talking about.

Sounds like a cooldown on WoW.

Hogwarts Legacy has one of the most fun combat systems I’ve experienced. If I chose any game I’d likely pick Hogwarts Legacy for Conan to model after. You get access to spells, most of which have CDs. You get access to hotbars. It adds a very interactive feel to combat that not a lot of games bother trying to do since you can juggle enemies etc. Kingdoms of Amalur is also another good example. It’s a similar action combat system to Conan but the game has special abilities you can use ranging from buffs, attacks, magic.

I appreciate games that go beyond just, left click, right click, left click, dodge. They add more depth and interaction to the combat.

I think the biggest issue with Conan in regards to implementing any kind of advanced combat mechanics is PVP. There could be difficulties with balancing etc.

Enshrouded currently is implementing special attacks and it alone has made itself a better game.

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I opened up the dev kit this morning hoping to start looking into a combat idea i had for a mod. I was going to research how the combat string works, then break it. I want (ed) to make every attack for a weapon a simple button combo. (controller) L1 + a direction does one of the light attacks. L2 + a button does one of the heavy. Once i figure(d) that out I would then add a few things to simulate a combo damage increase per strike up to 4. Basically every hit after the first does a 10% dmg increase for 4-5 seconds debuff on target, stacking to 3 only. The idea was to make mixing and matching all attacks a players choice and not stuck in the archaic arcade combo system of combat. Then balance each attacks damage, stamina usage with the animation time, normal debuff–cripple, bleed, etc.-- and I frames. Attacks values to me is the reward (damage and debuff) for the cost (stamina used and animation time).

I stated these as past tense because more of my friends got hacker wiped and decided i am done with the game.

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All i can say is that combat improvements don’t make the gameplay more interesting in any way. The game has been focusing more and more on PvP fighting and that’s the reason the game is so boring these days. There’s no challenge in anything anymore, you get everything instantly and without having to actually play the game.

Cooldown mechanics feel gamey. They can work in turn-based games, or RTS type games to some extent, but in action games they feel like an artificial limiter to cool things I want to do. They break the dynamics of combat, and also the immersion. Why would I need to wait for six seconds after a roundhouse kick before I can do another roundhouse kick, if otherwise I’m obviously not winded or off balance because I can keep fighting “normally” during that cooldown period?

An even worse offender in many games, why do I need to “gather energy/momentum/Craft points” by performing regular attacks before my “special attack meter” is high enough for me to perform a super attack? It tastes too much like a game, and not enough like combat.

Conan Exiles already has a cooldown system, called Stamina. It’s just the same pool of “cooldown” for attacks, dodges, sprints, etc.

It’s worth noting that even though Conan Exiles has lots of combat, it’s not just a fighting game. Compared to many action RPGs, such as the entire Elder Scrolls series since Arena, or the Mass Effect series, or Witcher 3 as you mentioned, Conan Exiles is on par or better in how combat is performed.

Could it be better and more interesting? Sure, it could. Would it be better or more interesting by trying to copy-paste features from games that aren’t meant to be played in the same way? I doubt it.

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:smile:
Stamina seems to be working, again. I see no reason to immediately change Stamina, again.

Some of the comments I read here almost give the impression the only game anyone here plays is Conan. Since people seem to be against the vast majority of the game mechanics in most RPGs. Conan’s most boring aspect to me is the fact every weapon is very limited. Kingdoms of Amalur lets you perform combos that don’t have CDs by the way. Chakrams for example, if you hold down left mouse button, the character performs a large aoe attack by swirling the Chakrams around them. Stuff like this I would like to see. I don’t necessarly mean I want a system where you jump at an enemy and then have to wait 4 seconds before it happens.

Tbh I would take Witcher’s system over Conan. Building up adrenaline over time that gives you access to stronger attacks. Performing small combos in Conan is honestly very boring. Out side of different animations there’s zero fun to it.

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