PvP Combat Balancing

Hi, here are some PvP combat gameplay suggestions which I gathered talking with people in servers and reading other user posts in this forum (emphasizing them is always good I guess):

  • Remove animation cancelling: animation cancelling enables you to spam attacks with pretty much no risk/punishment until one randomly connects. Recover animations are important because you have to decide carefully when to attack to not get punished.
  • Overhaul perk system: most perks in the game are solely for increasing efficiency, making the game feel like a min-maxing fest. Perks should have interesting effects which modify the way you play. One example would be most strength perks, which only increase damage percentage (the strength attribute itself already does that). Another example would be encumbrance 5 which is just a power farming mechanic and pretty much obligatory to building your base.
  • Remove the power-level gap between level 1 and level 60: even a stone-sword wielding naked dude should be able to kill you if you’re not careful. Equipment feels like an MMO, where a level 60 dude with epic flawless gear is just unkillable to a low level player. Reducing the power gap would enable some cool combat events, like 4 newbies ganging up on a level 60 and still provide challenge.
  • Increase ranged weapons damage as offensive weapons: Bows/throwables are used mostly for utility, and completely unviable for combat. Come on guys, give ranged weapons some love! :smiley:
  • Nerf spears or have some kind of spear counter: pretty much everyone always says this and always will. We need a new mechanic, or even a new weapon that could potentially solve the spearlord meta. The game has lots of weapons and players should be motivated to use them! :smile:
  • New combat mechanics: having block or parry mechanics in weapons (not the shields) could possibly change everything. Instead of just spamming attacks and running around players would actually kick, block, parry and try to time their attacks just right.
  • Adding an “Attack Feint” mechanic (suggested by Infectious1X): instead of using animation cancelling as an exploit for feinting attacks, we could actually have an official “feint” mechanic. Would work just as animation cancelling does, but without the possibility of timing the hitbox and cancelling after hitting it. In this case, we would have the same benefit of cancelling without the OPness of randomly hitting the attack.

Anyway, I know all of this won’t ever be changed or balanced, but here’s hoping some dev reads it if they ever make a Conan Exiles 2 or something :eyes:

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I agree with this list. Especially with the ranged weapons part - I was delighted at first with how spears worked, since in real life they are supposedly pretty effective as melee weapons with high range, but was put off when the same didn’t happen with a good bow and arrow, which could even perhaps serve as a counter for spears, maybe.

A nice blocking mechanic would also be very awesome, and as someone not very knowledgeable in the area it feels awkward to suggest, but adding concepts like parrying and/or counterattacks for bonus defense and/or attack would make the fighting system require more skill than just iLvL.

Anything to reduce the possibilities of griefing would be good, actually, because generally speaking the combat feels ok (coming from a PvE player that had very few contact in PvP). But I like to dream . _.

2 Likes

The only buff to ranged should be in the form of stronger accuracy perks, not an overall damage increase.

There is currently no limit to how many weapons you can carry with you, so an archer can deal a high amount of damage before the target reaches them, and then just finish them off in melee with the same strength of someone committing fully to melee. If ranged damage was buffed overall and not by the way of perks, then archers would be powerful at range while also being powerful in melee. You shouldn’t be strong in both, which is why it should be through the use of perks since you’d be forced to either spec into strength or accuracy for your intended play style. Ranged damage should be weak if points are not dedicated to it, the same as it should be with melee.

I do agree with removing the unequip tech, and instead replace it with a “feint” instead. If you go to unequip in an animation, you instead just fake your attack. Currently, you can attack and just as your strike lands, unequip and re-equip to avoid the animation lock. If it was switched to a feint, you can fake out dodges and decide not to commit to an attack, but it can only be feinted before the attack would land. If the attack would connect, attempting to feint would fail.

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Yes! Bows and arrows should feel at least playable. This game inspires freedom by creating, using lots of different weapons and exploring the world. Therefore, we should have the freedom to build a decent bow build :smiley:

Absolutely. But if a player invests 40 in STR and 40 in ACC, they should be able to to that strategy because they sacrificed the HP for it. I don’t think the damage has to be buffed to the point of being “strong”, but it has to be somewhat viable. If a player has the skills to be an archer they should be allowed to do it. As it is right now, someone can just run straight at you with a spear because the arrows feel like peanuts.

About the weapon limit part: that may be a problem, and I haven’t thought about it much. If each weapon countered another, we would just carry all of them at all times for PvP. Maybe limiting equipped weapons to a certain number (such as a ranged and a melee one), and then preventing changes when in combat would solve this?

I’d absolutely love that. Then that would be an official mechanic, instead of exploit. I’d argue feint could also be unlocked with AGI 10 or something.

2 Likes

I agree with the first one. Being able to cancel animation takes out some of the immersion when melee fighting.

2nd one has one flaw, this is not solel a fighting game, so some perks need to be for the farming aspect. IT is a survivor game, not soul caliber.

The power level gap is actually fine. you will never see a level 1 on officials, just running to noob river gets you @level 5. And by the time you constantly run across players, you at a minimum of 20. And i have been part of 4 20’s (upload://dh9GavLg1z6jdkfazX0PakfrExZ.png)
that have owned 2 level 60’s.

Arrows could use some more accuracy perks, but damage is okay where it is. Arrows in this game are for hunting and raiding (now). The Conan lore fighting of one on one has very little use for a bowmans adavantage (range). I don;t want this to turn into a shooter. I enjoy the up close personal fighting. Sniping is okay, but we don’t want it OP where you can 1 shot a level 60 with 3 vit.

The recently nerfed spears a little. And i can tell. seems to be less ability to spam on NPC’s.

the last 2, i am always open to making melee more engaging. But again, not all tweaks can be just for the PVP/PVE-C. They have to make sense for PVE/RP, or at least not hurt the game play style.

2 Likes

I don’t agree with what you said about the power level gap.

I played on an official PVP server the first time I played multiplayer and at level 20 there was a lvl 60 dude from a powerful clan hunting me and my friends. And then he’d be all smug saying on world chat “3v1 and you lose hurr hurr”, so as you can imagine, it wasn’t a pleasant experience at all. The level of douchebaggery of that person and his clan mates went beyond and they made top tier material walls/barriers around important resources and places so no other players could have access to them, and they have establishments all over the map. And since it’s an official server, I couldn’t even leave a vote of 1 star to help keeping new players from experiencing the same griefing my friends and I have experienced.

So no, I don’t believe at all that the power gap is fine and nothing can convince me otherwise.

you are letting a personal run in with a dbag dictate a balance aspect of game. I have played on multiple pvp servers, and yes, about 50% of the level 60’s power trip. But i had to learn over time myself, that PVP is not where you go for a peaceful and quite building game, where everyone plays by the values i have. Official PVP is going to be a constant chance of running into griefers. So level quickly, build secretly, make allies, destroy those greifers. Then back stab your allies or be back stabbed by your allies :slight_smile: That is the circle of life on Official PVP. But to try and make it where level doesn’t matter in a game, takes from journey to get to level 60.

I understand the need for the survival aspect, but even if we analyze by this perspective, the perks are still solely for doubling the rates and reducing time spent. For instance, the survival perks 2 and 3 will let you gather twice as fast and more resources from animals. You’re min-maxing for the time it takes to build your base, which for me personally takes you out of the immersive experience. What if VIT perk 2 was actually a survival perk? Wouldn’t it make more sense surviving in harsh climates to be a survival perk?

I also think a lot about the farming (or grinding, as I prefer to call it): does it enhance or diminish the immersion of the game? After I have my base, I don’t feel like I’m surviving because honestly the food is unlimited, water is easy to gather, sandstorm is instantly counterable by a single item (sandstorm mask). Every challenge the game poses is easily counterable. Therefore, even the survival aspects lack depth. Honestly, survival perks 2 and 3 would make much more sense on a hypothethical “GATHERER” attribute, or even encumbrance.

Yes, I’d also like to see some changes in perks to see where they go. I think 90% of the people I talked to said they only use ranged (throwables or arrows) for utility/status effects in battles, and then proceed to melee. But if the game is supposed to be melee, I guess there is not much to be done.

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im afraid many people argue that Animation cancelling adds alot of skill to the game, if anything, id say integrate it into the game, and make it cost stamina. Its only really usable for the GreatSword and Hammer anyways, and they both suck compared to the Spear.

Second. They are already halfway to Darksouls Combat, they should just commit fully to making it as close as they can. But they need to fix the speed of the weapons. first. There are a lot of foundational problems with the combat system. (Like they failed at fighting games 101: never make movement faster then the speed of the weapons). there is a lot to fix.

Also, The spear has already been nerfed, before nerfing it more, they need to bring the other weapons up and make the Greatsword and Hammer more competitive because they aren’t.

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yeah, I’m up for anything that increases skillcap for the game. but I honestly think in some specific cases (like after getting your hit in) it’s just a poke-n-run exploit. integrating with stamina usage would be cool

I couldn’t agree with you more on this one. Sure, it’s not a fighting game but there is combat and it is a BIG part of it, even for roleplaying. So it has to be good

I also feel like It’s not the spear that’s overpowered, but the other weapons that are not nearly as effective. I mean, maces feel so slow and underwhelming. Knives feel awesome with the bleeding and such but even with the light attack gapclosers it’s not enough.

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