And I think this is on purpose… Some worldbosses are on the same level (dmg and/or hp) like many things in Warmaker sanctuary and this dungeon was made for “groups”.
Well 2 lvl60 players with good gear are mostly enough - see @Wak4863 and @Firespark81 videos where they clear dungeons as duo without thralls.
Yes, you can still make it alone (without a thrall), but it would need way more time or abusing tactics (to get the boss stuck, so it cannot hit you - wak also has some videos for certain bosses and such “cheese tactics”).
So thralls should compensate the lack of another clan-member and as their AI is not that great (compared to a good player), the thralls make it up with dmg.
Best example of thrall AI vs human players: Who makes an airstrike, after a knock back when they stand up again?
Because of the knock-back, the enemy is out of the reach… So I doubt human players would stand up and hit NOTHING and then get hit by the enemy again…
Again: You don’t have to play the game this way. You are free to play it like you think it is challenging you.
There is not the “only right” way to play the game. This is the biggest advantage of Conan Exiles.
Everybody can play it like it fits the best.
Don’t project your personal problem on official server to the whole game!
If you don’t find other players on the official server to play the game the way you like, look on private server.
The majority of players are on the privat server!
Of course you just readed what you wanted, you wont take any argument against the current state of the game because it wont favor your lazy way of play, good.
I’m not a good player either, not skilled nor “Hardcore” as somebody has called me before. i just want the game to be fun again, as it is now is just about taking care of thralls and building… who is the thrall then?
I’m hoping the next patches bring thralls to a coherent level of playability where you as the player has to make a single effort to overcome certain challenges without being too tedious. or at least more customization on how the world, the thralls and the player interact with each other.
I’m disapointed on the current state of the game, but for hoping for better, this is not what i bought back in EA. That doesn’t mean i don’t like the changes that are being made, i just think the thralls are unnecessarely powerful.
How can you be disappointed about the game if you and only you do not play it like you want?
I don’t get. Just because there is an “easy mode” beside the “hard mode” and the “whatever mode” you pick the “easy mode” and then blame the game to be to easy?
Have you ever thought about something like personal responsibility ?
Just because you have problem with your self control you cry for control through the devs?
Just because you are not able to control yourself and go without any thrall or with a weaker then usual into a boss fight, every other player have to lose their way to play the game?
Conan Exiles is one of the most flexible game already made. You can choose how you play. I don’t like combat, and trust me, even playing with a good level 20 thrall in a PvE server, I usually die when I try dangeous or the volcano (I don’t have combat skills, because I don’t want to have). I don’t like to create sets (armor, weapons and skills) with the best performance, I like beautifull ones. I hate the purges, because it’s the only combat you don’t have options to avoid them. So, I play the game in the nobbie river, where purges are soft. This is how I tried to solve my problem.
So, if you want a harder game, I want a soft one. And both of us can get what we want. Play with no thralls or pets, and it will make your game insane. Yes, it will be frustrating spending almost one hour and many itens to kill red mother and then see Danlinsia killing her spending only a few minutes, using only few healing arrows. But it’s your option.
Agree, I can’t comment about PvP 'cause I don’t play. But he was talking about “dungeon or kill a special world boss”, and my reply was really limited to this.
Yeah, the thralls are so good at PVE but in PvP its boring kill them, only you Can Do is shoot poison arrows really? Someone enjoy a raid with that npcs?
I have to disagree with the easy mode argument for thralls current state at least to a point. I understand where people are coming from as it is a way for people to regulate there own play. But the problem is balance. Currently the thralls health and damage is way out of balance. So it’s not really easy mode, medium, hard. It’s take a good thrall good gear, very easy. Take a medium thrall easy, take no thrall very hard (or at least very tedious).
And the thralls themselves lack balance. If you look at the attribute system for players it is designed so you have to make sacrifices you can’t be max strength max health, and max grit (well with buffs you can maybe get max health and strength, but that’s then time limited). Thralls are both crazy damage tanks, and fierce damage dealing warriors, that can fight continuously. They do everything, meaning the player doesn’t have to do anything.
Play would be much more interesting if you had to choose what you wanted your thrall to be. You want him to deal massive amounts of damage, okay you will have to sacrifice health, meaning he can’t tank bosses without assistance from you. You want him to tank bosses with lots of health, okay then he won’t deal much damage and you will have to be the main damage dealer. This way if you aren’t a fighter thats fine, you could have your thrall do that but you would have to act as support. Or if you like fighting, than your thrall can tank the damage for you while you deal damage. This would actually engage players in the game and continue to allow player choice.
The final point I’ll make against the ‘easy mode’ argument is that ostensibly it sounds good but when you take actual player psychology into account it doesn’t really work. Most Hardcore gamers work tirelessly to maximize their players efficacy in every way. They want a challenge they can strive to overcome. So asking them to simply use sub par weapons and thralls is sort of insulting. I know it’s not intended as such, but it goes completely against that player mindset. Hard core gamers work hard to get and use the best gear. Imagine, if the easy, medium, hard mode in single player, just said to the player, okay use stone weapons if you want to play hard, steel weapons for medium and star metal for easy. Wouldn’t that seem a little insulting to you? Telling you to just choose not to use game content to make your life more difficult because after all you asked for it.
Anyways the game can’t be designed for just hardcore gamers, or just casual gamers. It needs to be designed with a balance in mind between the two. And that is going to mean balancing the thralls.
And here is the problem:
How ever you balance the the game in such a way that a casual solo gamer will be able to beat the hardest boss together with his thrall it will be to easy for the hardcore gamer with his thrall. And the we have the discussion again.
So only because the hardcore gamer has no self control to use a weaker or no thrall the casual gamer has no longer a chance to run the game solo. That’s the point.
There will never be way to balance the game for both groups by game design.
Enough people are doing that already. You see videos where people kill worldbosses on a horse (so no thrall).
Everything is there. It is up to the players choice. If you remove the stronger thralls, you removed a choice for many other people, just because you have no self discipline.
When we talk about PvE content only (PvP is different). There are no “fastest clear dungeon” or sth else awards or competition, because no one cares.
You want PvE content to be harder, use no thrall or a dancer. Many of us are farming bosses and dont want to waste >10 minutes on single boss, just because “its more hardcore or thrilling”.
There is a reason many games have difficulty settings. Some like it hard, some not so hard, when life itself is hard anyway.
If you want more “thrilling”, try Sebals dungeon ALONE. And then tell me how many hours you needed and how “thrilling” this was.
PS.: Real hardcore would be Diablo hardcore. You die one time → your char is deleted.
CAn we agree as long as OP thralls kill bosses in <2 minutes, that we should rename them NPC legendary nodes. Because boss implies a challenge of some sort. This way people will know it is a matter of tool, not skill, that decides the efficiency of farming the node. Like black blood tools tools for iron, stone, wood, and hide, OP thralls are for legendary weapons (keys and armor as well).
For the moment we only speak of those who want to nerf the thralls because they are not able to play the game in hard mode if they are not forced to do it. And therefor they are crying about the easy mode.
They are still a challenge if YOU go for them without support and they are still a challenge for ME even if I fight them along side with my thrall.
The only difference is, that we are not able to compare our results (we both looted the boss at the end).
And I think this is a big point for the hard core gamer. THEY are not longer unique. THEY are not longer able to call them self a “hero” or something like that.
I read a lot of envy or jealousy between the lines of some of the caller for “nerf the thrall”.
Conan alllows a slow evolution of our characters. When we talk about OP thralls, we are talking about players that spent hours in the game. I play the game enought time to dominate all basic game mechanics, and I started in a new server last weekend. I played about 5 hours, and all I got is a small 7x6 sandstone base 2 walls high, a basic light armor and a Furnace. Next time I login, I’ll probably spend some more time to farm Coal and Iron stone, turn it into Iron bars and get my first Iron pick. This time should be enought to finish many other games… and in Conan it’s just the beginning.
What I want to say is that it’s not as easy as people makes it seems to get an OP thrall. There is a long way untill I can get Dalinsia or Daicas. For now, if I have luck, I will be able to tame Frigga.
Of course I am talking about casual players like me, but I know there are many players like me. So, after spending days playing the game, it’s nice to have an OP thrall by my side. Killing world bosses is not the main goal of the game, for some players it’s just part of the game. And when I send my thrall to kill a boss, it’s only because I want its dropped itens. If I could only open a chest and get those itens, I would surely take this option.
So if you like the chalenge of killing world bosses, just go there and kill them single handed. Capture and share how good you are in combat and share with us. We think it’s nice to have players like you playing Conan, and we admire your habilities. We just opt to play the game in a different way.
LOL…most can be kited off stairs in the open world…and the dungeons are easy even with a Fighter II from sep city leveled only to 10, in basic heavy gear, and a hardened steel battle axe…I know, i did it. Took about 5 minutes per boss in Warmakers. TBH, that thrall i used should be the top tier we have now…but it is considered trash and normally wouldn’t have wasted the wheel for it. But i was doing an experiment, to get factual evidence of the ese of the game.
You guys could have admin rights enabled and the game would still be too difficult for you…
You don’t understand that the game without thralls is very tedious, yeah we could just grab a weak one and deal with it but that’s not a fix.
The game doesn’t allow the player to excel in anything but building, because thralls are better crafters, better fighters, better dancers (lol).
If there is no challange but to nerf myself there is really no reason to play, you speak of self discipline and you can’t even make a little effort to put some brains in the basic gameplay, and then you ask me why im dissapointed. Why do you bother with Bosses anyway? you want legendary weapons? you can do without them?
At the moment the only enjoyment i get from this game is playing in singleplayer with admin right building whatever i want, because the rest of the game is kinda pointless, for me at least.
Maybe there should be more official servers with different difficulties to choose from. maybe a slider to reduce Legendary bosses hp to make it less tedious, i don’t know, but the game as it is right now is boring and pointless.
[quote=“mikelei, post:31, topic:112528”]
There will never be way to balance the game for both groups by game design.
[/quote] Here I am going to have to disagree. Balance can certainly be improved. Yes, perfect balance cannot be obtained, it’s more an ideal, and you are never going to make everyone happy. But, regardless from a game mechanics perspective (not that I’m an expert, it’s just so obvious, I am completely flummoxed as to why people are still arguing this) the thralls are over powered. Anything that can kill virtually any enemy (with maybe the arena champion as an exception) in the game, without any additional input from the player and totally reck face is over powered. They just are. Now clearly some people like this and some people do not. How do you balance between the two? One way (not the only) is to change the thrall leveling mechanics so players choose where the thrall attributes go. And then balance these attributes (much like current player attributes) such that your thrall is either low damage dealing tank, that will absorb damage for a player. A high damage dealing glass cannon that will not live without something to absorb damage. Or something in the middle, moderate damage, moderate health. This way you can choose whichever style works best for you. But you can’t go and fight the Red Mother, hit it once and let your thrall take over. Because that’s not playing the game. That’s an npc fighting another npc, what’s the point of you even being there?
I think it’s responsible to assume that most players, hardcore or casual, actually want to be involved in playing the game. Right now you basically don’t have to be. Hit something once and let your thrall do the rest. I don’t think only hardcore gamers feel that going up against bosses should have some risk associated with it. And if you let your thrall go on his her own, they wont be able to defeat it. They will need player help to be successful. Balance in the game, that requires people to actually play the game to be successful, may mean buffing the player a little, but it will certainly mean nerfing thralls. Of course private servers could always increase the thrall damage and damage resistance back to levels they are now. But the official servers and game should be more balanced.
First of all, I don’t think it fair to say I have no self discipline. Bro you don’t know me. Haha just kidding around. But seriously, take a moment to think about your argument. I’m going to flip it around. A player says to me the game is too hard, it takes them 30 minutes to kill a boss and they die constantly. I say, well that’s just because you have no self discipline. I have spent 100s of hours perfecting my fighting technique and getting the best gear in the game. It only takes me 15 mins if you had more self discipline this wouldn’t be a problem.
I hope you can see that neither of these are good answers. The game needs to be balanced so that it is not too difficult for casual players, but is still rewarding for more hardcore players. This balance is obtainable, but isn’t easy. See my response above. Just please stop saying that hardcore gamers (not that I’d consider myself one at all) have no self discipline. That’s laughably ignorant.
