I’m sorry to say but you’ve managed to make a non-statement to the question posed. What was mentioned in the video was in reference to the current pvp meta that is a very forced meta. There is no creativity allowed due to the poorly coordinated perk placement and overall just useless perks to replace golden perks of the past attribute system.
The previous meta before the change was a lot more class based e.g. Archers were forced down archery with specific perks to support that build. Meaning that archers could do little to no damage with melee weapons as was intended and is also common in every other game with the class setup that includes archery. They’re glass cannon types. That is something now lost on conan, Now you can be a dagger/katana spamming archer mad man who does mega damage in both ranged and close.
With the current attribute system for any sort of chance of making it in a competitive PvP scene you are required to have the perk Fleet Footed as it is a mega buff and without it you are purposely handicapping your potential in a PvP situation. By moving perks around and IMO removing double jump completely then it allows for a more diverse PvP meta like it was in the previous attribute system.
Another example of a build currently run in the game (Mostly seen on Official servers) is 20 encum 20 agi 20 vit. With this build you have a mario style build where if you are out farming as an encumbrance player you now have 2 potential ways to play the game that just shouldn’t be the case. You now have option 1. Mario jumping (double jump onto a players head whilst over encumbered by 500-600%) that will instantly kill them or 2. You can become a dagger/katana/archer to shift+del them whilst all being in encumbrance. This has changed the Official PvP to a pretty disgusting state of things.
Finding a meta is and always will be a part of any sort of PvP game. This isn’t something to be shunned or looked down on. This game has no question about the meta right now. Zero discussion on what is the best set up for PvP it is as cookie cutter as it gets. Now if the perks get switched around and have some actual in-depth thought put into them, then the game becomes more of a question of who’s right on the best meta and it opens up a plethora of build choices that aren’t as currently forced on you.
Double jump is bad for the PvP scene, Period. There is a lot of things as to why but the lag plays the largest part in this and also the forced meta of 20 str 20 agi 20 vit. With the removal of the Fleet footed perk from 15 agi and put elsewhere this will help fix the current state of PvP drastically as stated in the video.
And this is why I avoid PVP now. Because this is now the norm thought in PVP and it is so diametrically opposed to what FC is doing that I don’t see how the two are going to reconcile. This if fundamental game purpose sort of thing where the entire PVP community is zigging and FC is zagging. I wouldn’t be surprised if the FC viewpoint is ‘just let them whither away’ (please note that I am not a FC representative and therefore do not speak for the company. I just am observing the direction of the game and the direction PVP players are going and they are moving away from each other) But it gets worse as the revisions to the game are taking into account PVP requests even though the design team is clearly not going that way. This is leaving the game lacking as PVP is constantly chasing a new exploit to abuse (And yes that is exactly what happens), PVE gets disappointed as the “nerf” revisions happen and FC’s game lack cohesive direction since design is PVE diretion but revision is primarily based on PVP feedback.
I used to think these two aspects of the game can coexist but I’m starting to understand they cannot because PVP has lost sight of the anything that doesn’t deal with direct combat advantage and PVE has lost sight to adjusting their playstyle for the betterment of the game.
And before you say this is only a PVP focus discussion, no it isn’t! Not when you talk about changes to core aspects like the attribute system. That affects everyone and therefore PVE input is mandatory.
The lag will hit any aspect of fleet footed regardless of double jump. Double jump just puts stops the 3d aspect of it. The only solution is to remove fleet footed or regulate the PVP servers based on what client systems are being used and keep like with like (IE PS4 have their servers, PS5 has theirs. Certain GPU metrics assign provide the servers that you have access to) . I see a lot more benefit in regulating the servers than removal of the advantage of agility (speed).
We just played against ping abusers… it was hell. 20 20 20 meta build with double jumpers, last stand and berserker and they’re teleporting all around and hitting us invisible. Y’know, the ol’ server evening out bs.
Aside from the accusations of others that they were hacking or lag switching, we could tell they weren’t. Only ping abusing because of their distance to the server. This is really common and despite Funcom trying to deal with it… there’s still direct connect.
Even if we rallied and didn’t stray, we focused, we couldn’t kill them. This was even with amazing, skilled and very intelligent PvPers fighting them.
I realize this isn’t the core issue of the OP; before you could still take down ping abusers with skill and is related.
I agree it is a forced meta, with caveats depending on the situation. Add with war pyramids they can use their last stand to jump in and heal, get back out. Rinse and repeat, over and over and over.
It gets boring, stressful and isn’t what I and others I’ve spoken with envisioned as PvP. We’ve been losing our best players to cheese tactics and exploits.
This is where the efforts need to focus on first and the root of the original complaint…If lag is the issue, fix that and stop changing the entire game to accommodate it.
As far as the Meta build, if we aren’t going to try to stop all meta building, then we just need to stop pretending we are looking for a fix and just state the actual issue…we are wanting a change because its boring.
Meta building will always exist. People want to find the best gear, the best weapon, the best build etc to have better and easier time when pvping. When everyone uses the same stuff, then it comes down to who’s better, which team is better… Well that’s what it should be. Change is wanted not just because its boring, because the skill ceiling has just collapsed over time even though Den stated a long time ago when animation cancel was removed which was a big hit to the PVP community, that they’d hunt for ways to make the skill ceiling higher in a fair way. In that case, a good start is removing their built in aimbot. Even if it was just for Official PVP, it won’t effect the PVE servers.
Exactly that. I’m assuming this was implemented to give new players a chance against old, experienced players but it’s literally used by all because it’s that literal aimbot when paired with daggers for e.g.
I genuinely don’t think you understand what you quoted from me. Let me explain, The lag has no effect on Fleet footed at all. It does however have a large effect on double jump that at current everyone who PvP’s is forced into using due to Fleet footed being placed in 15 Agi. If this was removed to 10 Grit for example that then would not force players into using 20 Str 20 Agi and 20 Vit like it is currently.
The games build varity has become non-existent with the new system of attributes found in todays version of the game. It removed so much and in turn gave us back the least amount of perks possible by comparison to the previous. You had so much varity previously where class setup mattered and the PvP builds weren’t completely set in stone and allowed for more gameplay movement.
As to this the lag is mostly found when server FPS goes to 2-4 fps or even 1 fps. Never have I ever seen anything like it in any other game. I’m assuming it’s down to bad networking. It’s not as if the lag is solely based on Player 1 has 100 PingPlayer 2 has 400 Ping It’s that the server itself has 600-800 ping during raid time due to raids etc and the server FPS being on the floor. The devs have admitted as much as to the poor coding that is found in this game. I’ll never forget that they removed crossbows because they couldn’t get it to work within their code. So instead of fixing it they just removed it completely.
But that would just make it 20 Str 10 Grit instead as the meta plus frees up for extra carry weight etc. You just replaced one with another and it doesn’t even make sense to put it in grit. If its OP, it needs to be removed. I think the OP nature isn’t because of the speed but because of the speed and stamina reduction. If stamina reduction stayed the same or actually increases a little (because you are faster and exhausting yourself faster) then it wouldn’t be as OP.
That tweak would screw over the 20s20a20v builds because nothing is in grit. Instead of moving it to grit, make grit more appealing by adding more reasons to needing grit. Creating an actual trade off. Only by having true trade offs will you get more variations to character builds.
From my perspective, this seems to be just an appeal to avoid agility completely and put something really cool into the grit tree so that PVPers can swing the axe more than 5 times.
The original complaint of metabuilding being the issue seems to have taken a back seat when pressed and so that seems to cement this as just a method to remove the 25% attribute commitment to agility to get the ubercool perk.
If it’s truly OP, then no one would question if we put it as a level 20, right? It makes no sense to call it OP and then suggest it be a level 10 perk.
I’m pretty skeptical there was as much build diversity prior to 3.0 as op is claiming.
I was under the impression that everyone just piled into strength/vitality unless they needed to run an encumbrance build for some reason, at which point they piled into vitality/encumbrance.
Accuracy builds weren’t a thing unless there was an active bug in play that made bows OP.
And let’s not forget that the real meta at that time was horse+lance.
So yeah, right now there’s probably more build diversity since there appears to be two metas; goomba and SAV.
Another swing and a miss from you it seems, The issue is not entirely based on Fleet footed as I’ve stated multiple times. The reason for the moving of the perk is because CURRENTLY every single PvPer goes 20 agi even although the perk is found at 15. Why is this? Because with the current attribute system it is forced. Now what do we get at 20 Agi? That would be Double jump, Now with double jump what can we do with it in PvP situations? We can jump further meaning that we can jump large gaps etc in active PvP. We can also jump higher which means we can get to places that normally you wouldn’t be able to without climbing.
With all of this what do we get in an active PvP situation? We get as the OP stated in the video, we get a case of jumping around like a headless chicken avoiding PvP at all costs. Now what happens if we leave this player alone to heal as killing them requires more than 1 person to pursue? They heal and come back to the fight almost instantly. This removes a major factor of the PvP which is killing the enemy to win the fight.
Agility will always be a required attribute pick up as it has other perks to just having the points in Agi that is required for PvP. The issue is being FORCED to max out Agi as there is no other alternate.
It’s not just 25% if you had been reading anything I have said at all it’s a full commitment to 1/3rd of your attribute points as if you only took the 15 points in Agi you would be completely handicapping yourself against others who put the 20 points into Agi. As now they have the ability to get out of situations unlike a player who only goes to 15.
This is also doesn’t fix the issue of the attribute system as it currently is. This would be a temporary fix for a not very well thought out attribute system. As I have stated before archers should NOT have the ability to max range hit me for large amounts of my total HP pool and then when I get close they pull out Agi specific weapons and proceed to now be completely effective at melee PvP. The game was originally about choices, choices you had to make in order to play with your currently play style. If you wanted to go archer you had to give up on being any use in melee as you were ranged. Now this is no longer the case.
If you want to seriously take a step back and look at what the attribute system used to be like and then compare it to today. You will see we went from unique style builds where we had to give up something to be good at another. Now it’s just 20 20 20 spam and you can be Melee god archer or an encumbrance build melee god or a max grit dagger spammer. Everyone’s builds are mushed together so you become a swiss army knife in PvP.
The speed is indeed the actual reason the perk is overpowered because you can catch someone who does not have it very easily. Once you can outrun/catch someone they are just an easy prey for you. It realistically should be over for them. Thats why its overpowered and needed in pvp. You could put that perk in any tree and any part, 5/10/15/20 and it will remain needed. When it becomes needed in pvp you go 20str, 20 vit and 15agi. Now your left with 5 points and your obviously going to get the 20agi for double jump because its just a busted perk. Its better than anything else you would use them 5 points on. The reason it was asked to be put in grit is because people will have to spec into it because hey once again its needed. For example if it was 10grit instead you are beginning to separate the classes and splitting the use of multiple strong perks being used at the same time like double jump, no stagger when hit, last stand. Here’s some quick examples ill throw out where your beginning to compromise on perks.
Melee build - You cant go around double jumping like a maniac. Stated above we are trying to also get away from stacking strong perks.
20 Str
10 Agi
20 Vit
10 Grit
Archer build - You cant use all the str weps now unless you were to take 10 str and 10 Grit have to compromise and then even then your not as strong as a melee player, at least you shouldn’t be.
20 Agi
20 Vit
20 Grit
Farmer build - Now a farmer isn’t just as strong as a melee player.
20 Expertise
10 Grit
10 Agi
20 Vit
Also this isn’t just so “pvpers want something cool in the grit tree to swing the axe more” which is just a dig at pvp players. Even if it was put in grit, agility is still wanted because it reduces the “act after dodge” aspect when it comes to rolling.
Did you took your time to watch the video? since i tried my best to explain it so everyone can understand.
The whole collection of perks and not just double jump is broken… Last stand has immunity for 4-5s, mad beserker is no stagger, no slow and the double jump makes you unkillable, well more or less. The whole package is broken. And right now the best thing to do is just move the perk to an unused spot such as stout perk in grit. This change will make people think what they want to play and how they want to play. You’ll get people playing different weapons with different styles opposed to what you have now, nothing…
sorry if i responded wrong to you, was a quick read, since i am a bit tired.
oh and metas will always exist, even in POE there are metas. People will always try to find the best way the easiest way even PVE players.
The player without it cannot chase the player if he’s low, gains space pretty quickly and can pot. And the player without it cannot run away because he caught quickly and hit the in the back.
Some people go 20str, 20agi, and 20vit but some also take 5 points from str and put it in grit. You don’t have the greatest stamina pool but it’s definitely sustainable in a fight. We are not discussing low tier pvp gameplay, we are talking highly competitive. There’s no point in talking bobby basic players when the average player either attempts to spam daggers with autolock or just dies immediately .
This is the problem. These two statements can’t exist. Look I understand your point but after watching and playing PvP CE for 4 years, I don’t have faith it’s going to change anything and even with the change we will be right back here with a new plan and a new reason why FC destroyed pvp. After 4 years of updates and changes that were going to save PvP, when do we recognize it’s not the game mechanics and pvp dies because it’s the same old toxicity, same old alpha clan power unbalance? What makes some pvp games work and CE pvp constantly implode? The largest factor,IMHO, is the pvp that actually works well is one where everyone starts off the same…meaning wipes and hunger games style of restarting.