Conqueror vs Barbarian quick comparison

Age of Conan Class Discussion
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  1. DPS

Conq - can stack up +100% fixed weapon damage in frenzy stance and bunch of crits while still having better mitigation than barb

Barb - 85% is the maximum

Barb dps only shine in boss raid, coming from x15 reaver stance + CoS. But its not obtainable in pvp. Without being full stack of reaver stance, conq will easily outdps barb even in defensive stance when they’re in carnage form

  1. Healing

Conq - can heal up 40% of their health in 30s just by pressing one button. they also can heal teammates.

Barb - must hit foes to get heal. It means being pssy doesnt give you any heals while conq can do that. Also the healing gonna be capped in x15 bloodrage stack. So if you wanna extra heals, you gotta remove the stack manually which is very annoying in outdated UI.

Its easy to say that conq have way better heal. Stacking x15 bloodrage takes really long time in pvp. Even in duel it takes almost a minute unless the opponent is a bot.
So lets do simple math. Conqs have +16k hp, so they get 1.6k x 0.4 ÷ 30 = 213 heal per second over 30s.
While barb only get (47 + 47 x 15) x 7.5 ÷ 60 = 94 heal per second over 60s.
Double heal, double mitigation…

  1. CC’s

Conq - 2(+1) kb, 1 fear, 1 insta snare, 1 insta silence. Dont have stun, but good players can stun foes while landing combos by double tapping anyway. Plus, charging kb from AA is most powerful kb in the game. Its unavoidable.

Barb - 2 stun, 2kb, 1 snare coming with stun. But snare has 0 impact because CC break gonna remove it with stun anyway.

I thought funcom removed all the “insta CC” 9 years ago but somehow conq can get 3 of it :joy:

  1. Survivability

Conq - 2 invincibility bubbles, 1 overpowered reactive damage bubble. Root, snare immune.

Barb - few CC breaks, speedbuff, 60% evsion bubble by sacrificing dps and heal.

  1. Debuff

Conq - can stack up x5 armor, protection reduction, -25% mitigation debuffs in 10 seconds :joy::joy:

Barb - only armor reduction, -10% mitigation debuffs which have very long cd. Its hard to get full stack.

Definetly its the most broken thing in the game atm. Getting full stack of debuffs in few seconds by spamming dps combos is just ridiculous. Whoever designed this should quit his career as a game developer asap.

  1. Summary

They’re kind of brothers using 2h, dw weapons. But you can easily conclude that conq is better than barb in any aspect besides speed.
But listen, im not saying barb needs to be buffed. Barb is fine. I think barb is the most balanced class compared with other classes in general excepts conq.
The only reason I compared conq and barb is to show how overpowered conq is.
This class needs some serious nerf ffs 🤦

****Edit: ok barb can be really strong in pvp. I was only considering duels when i talked about barb’s balance. Barb is strong, but conq is x3 stronger than barb on every aspect beside speed. That was the point. :+1:

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How are you going to nerf Conqueror without nerfing it from a PvE perspective? I am not a PvPer, however I do know Conq is pretty solid in PvP, but I think I can safely say the PvE aspect in this game is more important even if that might be tough to hear for some people. Not saying people cannot disagree, but I think it’s how it is.

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Why do you think conq doesnt need to be nerfed in PVE perspective? You can’t run a raid without conq lol

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They dont need to be nerfed in PVE tho, its actually the tank thats most balanced and finest tuned. Dt need a remodel(nerf) and guard need buff, thats all :slight_smile: But for example tuning down debuffing wouldnt hurt pve that much

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The biggest mistake was done, when the ‘‘Ultimate Soldier’’ the Guardian was nerfed… That started a ‘‘lazy’’ approach of nerfs and boosts oppening an endless cycle of nerfs and boosts requests.

I don’t believe in nerfs and since now DPS classes can already produce lot’s of DPS maybe Conqueror can rely more on procs close to DT level (Not more then DPS classes) and decrease Critical Chance gains and maintain a good Penetration and Mitigation debuff but not as massive.
Because it’s the ‘‘Fixed’’ speed and efficiency with which he gains the Crits that produce that much dmg.

Conqueror is supposed to produce a bit more dmg then DT, and DT a bit more then Guardian. Guardian should be revived.

  • The greatest mistake is overdoing Mitigation debuffs and Penetration abilities, because they affect the ‘‘Gear’’ of the game itself and the imbalance spreads in a very broad range. The most important thing though, is the matter of ‘‘Crits’’ It should rely for everyone, on maybe some finishers, not a ton of them of course and on ‘‘Perks and Items’’ (Desicive/ Pressing Strikes) and PvE/ PvP epics.

I believe that we can find the issue by comparing ‘‘Tank’’ fixed DPS and potential DPS. Especially with DT/ Conq because we function similar. So we should be ‘‘Balanced’’ i guess…

  • Magical Sensitive Bosses can be damaged by bypassing their Protection, thus you need Spell Penetration, type of Damage (Unholy) which is Magical, plus Critical Damage. Depending on your Critical Rating you deal more or less damage.

For a Magical tank like the DT, it makes sense to rely on Magic Damage which we can get and scale only from Rings/ Necklaces/ Gems from equipment and maybe some potions, including PvE/ PvP gear. Besides we do ‘‘Fixed’’ Unholy dmg from our Build procs. We don’t know how much, it’s Lottery anyway.

  • For a Physical tank like the Conqueror, that relies on DPS to stay in the aggro table as well, Physical Damage - Armor Penetration - Mitigation Debuffs, make sense in order to stay in the aggro table and produce results even in PvP. It’s what makes the Class work.

Physically Sensitive Bosses can be damaged by bypassing their Armour, thus you need Armor Penetration, type of Damage (Weapon Damage) which is Physical, plus Critical Damage. Depending on your Critical Rating you deal more or less damage.

From what i know, damage scales with procs. If these procs stack they produce more dmg. If you have some Critical dmg/ Chance they do even more, if you can produce debuffs, even more since less of it, will be mitigated. So for Conqueror it’s Weapon damage. Awesome.

But!

If the numbers of the Penetration and Debuffs and fixed Critical Rating and Critical Damage Rating are too high, then maybe the (Physical Damage) procs (similar to the DTs Unholy procs) should be increased, instead of increasing Penetration/ Mitigation Debuffs plus Fixed Critical Rating/ Crit Dmg Rating. Especially not when the class can have ‘‘Auto attacks’’ that produce those Crits in a very high speed.

  • I believe this is what they did wrong with Conqueror to cover the ‘‘Aggro issue in PvE very Rashly’’ and no tank should produce more ‘‘fixed’’ Unholy dmg or Weapon Damage than a DPS class. So the 100% Conq vs 85% Barb fixed weapon damage should be the opposite. I mean just imagine Dark Templar doing more ‘‘Fixed’’ Unholy dmg then Assasin…

As for CCs, it may be annoying for DT but truth be said (DPS classes need more CCs) and by no means should a tank have more then them. DT can get 1 Snare/ 1 or 2 Stuns, 1 Fear and i find it balanced when i fight against DPS classes since if they hadn’t these abilities and i had 2 knockbacks and instant cast CCs i would find it too easy to get kills. Now there is some balancing because you have to avoid, you have to load anti CC ability or break CC or resist it, or act quickly before or after it’s cast thus a DPS dealer who knows what he is doing can make short work of you, and that is balanced.
And i don’t support insta cast CCs at all, not even for DPS classes.

Regarding Bubbles and mitigation.

  • DT has either passive mitigation from General Tree, or exchanges it for Soul Barrier most of the time, which needs to be fed with Mana with Ether Reap from Mystical Bane Combos and it still doesn’t absorb all damage. 1.33 mana damage instead of Health damage for every 1 damage absorbed.

If we get hit with high speed rate instead of slow hard damage, our mana will get depleted and we won’t be able to start most combos and if we loose stamina as well, we are dead. Part of the reason Soul Barrier can get you killed very easy and that spec takes most of your time to troll mana instead of going full ‘‘Jarhead’’

Our Covenant of Pestilence deals 40% retributive Melee damage, if feated on a Physical dueling spec it can give +400 armor and a nice health buff after consumption of Seal of Yog.
The magical equivalent is Covenant of Invulnerability which has 40% Retributive Magic Damage, gives +400 protection, or 500 if fully feated. Casters will loose their mana for each spell cast, depending on how much they hit us.

  • Long story short, if we don’t use the General Tree our survivability depends on either Soul Barrier alone, or Soul Barrier and one of those. Only one! We can choose a Physical one or a Magical one. The Physical will help us against Conqueror/ Barbarian mostly and the Magical against Demo, Necro, ToS. HoX is not countered very good from these, neither does Sin and especially not Bear Shaman.
    So we have to either choose the General Tree passive mitigation and rely on Sadism counter, and the Covenants unfeated, or on Soul Barrier - Ether Reap and one of these bubbles feated.

The whole Warped Dread Feat line is almost useless, Hex Marked Soul can be used for 8 Seconds which will give us 2500 protection, which can be bypassed a bit by Spell Penetration or ignored till expiration 1min CD and requires a Depravity Desecration Hybrid build reliant on Soul Barrier etc. which sacrifices some burst damage.

While Shadowed Soul gives Immunity to Fear/ Snare/ Root for 10 secs with 1min & 30secs CD, and increases by 50% the damage from Hexes, it requires a build which is squishy because of points invested into Talisman Mastery - Shadowed Blade, that will rely on Aggresion and Passive Mitigation from Gear and Sadism counter with 1 Stun and 1 Snare. (And requires the best possible AAs and Gear) + An experienced PvPer.

  • I find it imbalance, if a class can have too many bubbles at once, with too many snares and knockbacks, or root abilities. Just Imagine DT with Soul Barrier + 2 Covenants Feated in PvP. Tanking every class better than Guardian. At least Guard can be now flag bot and survive Barbs and Conqs better than we do. It’s a shame how much they already nerfed the best Soldier Concept of AoC. The Champion!

And it was a stupid idea. Yes of course the Soldier has more Endurance and Evade and Speed in Full Armor, he’s been sleeping, going to WC, making ■■■ with Full Plate armor and has been disciplined and trained to do that damn it!

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Like Moriala said, nerfing the debuffing rate of conq would be a good approach, or making Overcome the odds useless in PvP. Just like the retributive damage of Retaliation or Cunning deflection were nerfed only for PvP, this bubble could still be used, but other players hitting with physical damage would still hurt the conqueror. Also, Guard of dancing steel retributive hits need nerfing. Retaliation was nerfed but not gods procs, which are the reason people kill themselves hitting the conq sometimes. All of these could be nerfs for conq in PvP only, because, like Fireblow said, it’s fine in PvE.

By the way, barb does more dps than conq both in PvE and PvP. I don’t know where you got that idea from, OP. I guess that if a conq stands in front of a barb and they both start hitting each other, the conq wins, but that’s not how PvP works. A barb has the speed advantage, which they have to use properly. Conq selfheal is only good with 5-10 stacks of furious inspiration and battlefield commander. Carnage conq surely has more dps and good burst with whirlwind, but it’s a 3step combo where you have to land all hits to do damage and the selfheal isnt that good anymore. The problem in my opinion is chargekb. I find it way cheesier than a brute conq, but, like I said, brute conq could be nerfed in some ways that wouldn’t affect the class for PvE.

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Why can’t you raid without a conq ?

If it’s for the res, let me say that when people don’t die the res isn’t needed, and all other things can be done with another class.

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What boss do you specifically need a conq on? An extra DT+Guard to fill the slots would do the job just as fine? I wouldn’t count battle resses, you don’t plan to have people dying. Of course they are nice to have, but not a must have.
And from a PvE perspective it is DT that definitely needs a nerf, not Conq which has been mentioned already.

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Ah yes, the 2nd strongest class in pvp is balanced except when comparing it to the strongest class.

On a more serious note, you can’t just compare classes like that.
You’re comparing some weapon damage buffs barbs and conqs get without even considering their baselines.
Then you compare healing, without considering barb’s stacks also grant loads of hp (and the added hp acting as a heal), the fact that they stack super fast on aoe combos (bone shatter says hi) and blood fury being an ability any pvp barb should get.
Then you compare CCs and you just compare the amount of CCs without considering the CC immunity duration they each individually give or their CD.
Survivabilty wise you forgot to add unstoppable for barbs.
Debuffing wise i got nothing to add, conq are so far above anything else there it’s not even close.

Now does this mean conq is fine? Not even close, it’s probably the most broken op class in pvp at the moment, but you saying barb (another broken op class) is balanced is a bit of a joke.

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The nerf approach.

I think the ‘‘Nerf’’ approach would work only and be viable, without creating other problems as happens usually, by the following way:

  • Guardian brought back from the Dead. He should be the most versatile tank no matter the encounter while Conqueror/ DT (Physical/ Magical Specialists) bringing either more offensive or more deffensive specs to the encounter.

  • Maintain viable Penetration (Armor/ Spell) debuffing power (Physical/ Spiritual) equally distributed to both tanks with the proper (Mitigation/ Protection) stats distributed as well so the appropriate tank can main tank the appropriate enemy better. I don’t understand why DT must have lower Protection gain compared to how much physical Mitigation he gain. (Is he the Magic tanking specialist or not? I am confused).

& maintain a similar level of (Weapon Damage/ Magical Damage) for both tanks.

That way, bosses will react more to the appropriate tank, which makes perfectly sense

Nerfs:

  • Option 1. Either make both tanks have a similar Critical gain via their Feats (Builds) in this case DT would need more Critical gain from his Feat Tree options on similar level the Conqueror has and completely remove VoM and his reliance on it.

  • Option 2. Either decrease Conqueror Critical gain efficiency via his Feat tree (Build) on similar level the DT has and completely remove VoM and the DTs reliance on it.

(I don’t support the Option 2. since the Critical gain efficiency of DPS dealers with current RF ring options and T6 gear options will create great imbalances in PvP and they will melt us from afar not even being affected from - PvP Hit Rating stats).

For that to work though, with the current DPS done by every DPS class and for AoC to not turn into a DPS fest, which has already, General tank (Proc Damage Rate) must maintain it’s current status and maybe a bit boosted as well if we follow Option 2.
Otherwise we will spend more time on aggro tools then fighting and most DPS classes don’t even bother investing into Hate Decrease anyway…

Both options would keep Conqueror as a Physical tanking specialist and Dark Templar as a Magical tanking specialist though.

  • As for VoM replacement, i believe with the current options of CCs and CC resists everyone has, it is only fair that we could use a viable ‘‘Cast’’ Gold Perk, which will be in fact ‘‘Shadowed Soul’’ with Root/ Snare/ Fear Resistance, working with both Talisman and Shield.

Then maybe giving a huge Health Tap Boost & Spell Penetration & Debuffing Power as well and no idea what else, plus Critical Rating and Spell Critical Rating buff during it’s cast, since it won’t proc everytime as VoM does.

(That will require removing Shadowed Soul from our build as well, otherwise at some point, everyone will ask for nerfs again, because ‘‘we will have more CC resists’’ so we need to take that into account as well).

  • Regardless of the option we followed, DT would remain a Magical tanking Specialist and Conqueror a Physical tanking Specialist without anyone replacing the other.

And lastly, no matter the option followed ‘‘Revive the Guardian’’ and let everyone complain about the ‘‘Soldier’’ (Having more endurance/ stamina/ agility and dmg procs with full plate armor) as it is obvious for a Soldier to have anyway.

Maybe Guard could rely on Evade and Immunity from his feat tree more, but less passive protection and mitigation, dependant on Full Plate armor, while DT having decent protection and Conqueror decent mitigation as magical/ physical tanking specialists.

That would make every tank usefull and mandatory to be present into special encounters with the exception of Guardian who might do both equally, without having more passive protection/ physical mitigation than Conqueror/ DT. That should balance it and make ‘‘future Guardian nerf requests’’ even sound stupid.

In the end, both DT and Conq, could focus on choosing 2 specs, either Defensive or Offensive depending on their role as Magical/ Physical tanking specialists, wether they will main tank or off tank.

  • Currently with DT in protection fights you have to go full defensive if main tank against magical bosses but you need to be better geared than other tanks in order to pull it off, otherwise your aggro will be low. So you either go dps to keep the aggro and loose survivability which is nonsense or you get some T4 equipment first and then become a viable magical tank…

Till then i will rely on DPS, gain the aggro the whole time as DT, while the Guardian and Conqueror will only gain aggro after ‘‘I died’’ and the ‘‘Nerf Cycle’’ will continue forever by accomplishing absolutely nothing. The only way i can currently main tank with T3/ UC gear, is with Desecration - General and Kuthcheman tower Shield in ‘‘Physical fights’’ if i switch to Dread Spec i will simply not have aggro. But why should i have more aggro against Conqueror in Physical fights? I don’t get it…

So in the end. There is no lazy nerf approach that is balanced. As a result this could be considered an Overhaul.

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The problem with DT in PvE is that most bosses and mobs have little to no protection, making DT the strongest tank in terms of dps and aggro. This isn’t as relevant in T5 and T6, so the way to fix this problem would be increasing the protection of mobs and bosses in every other encounter. Not only do DTs outdps conqs and guards, but holding aggro on the latter vs demos and necros is harder than with a DT.

The only thing I wish guard had would be either more polearm dps or more debuffing, for PvP. Otherwise, guards and conqs are fine in PvE.

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I don’t get it. I already said barb is faster. But im talking ahout pure dps rn. Zerker barb vs carnage conq definitely carni conq easily outdps barb. And Im not saying only barb vs conq duel case.

If that, barb heal only good when you can stack up to +10

And i dont even think its “ok” in pve too. You can tank, rez while in combat, heal, add bunch of buffs, debuffs, can be decent dps if raid needs extra dps. As far as i remember even before the revamp of conq, they had really high priority for unconquered raids.

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Can you remember old days attemping new raids with khitan gears, without any knowledge?

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What baseline?

Added hp acting as a heal? Where did you get this idea? Added hp doesnt work like that lmao. Have you ever swapped your weapon in the game? Well even with counting that false info, it only doubles 94, conq still have better heal lmao

Only in pve lol. Healing up by attacking bunch of enemy players when you’re low? Its not happening dude. You will be focused and dead immediately. You can only stack up fast when you’re not focused but you dont need much heal in that case anyway.

Sounds like saying barb have all the kind of CCs :joy: conq have more variety on CCs. Are you trolling? Or you think barb still have root on kb? Then wake up.
Also the most important thing is that conq have 3 insta CCs

At death’s door? Im pretty sure you’re trolling

Alright i dont wanna get invovled in pointless argue. Lets say barb is op. Then what conq should be?? :joy:

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I still don’t understand why a raid would require a conq specifically.
You can do every raid with khitai/unchained/etc epics, and understanding of the mechanics comes with a few tries and paying attention to what’s happening.
I never expect people to die when it’s not because of a sacrifice mechanic, like the assassin boss in t3.
I don’t remember joining raids where conqs stacking happened.
Finally I think barbs do more damages than conqs.

Extra note: I don’t give a s*** about pvp.

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Lmao its easy to say you dont need conqs. Without them you gonna waste more time on attempting. Due to your logic you can do every raids without any dt but with bunch of dps guards. Why do you even need to open your eyes? By

You gonna able to clear it without your eyes. :joy::joy:

Well it seems like im involved in out of topic. Lets talk about the point. In fact conq is much better than other classes in PvE too. They’re bringing so many things to group. So why is taking few things from them even matter? Nerfing debuff, heals, CC’s would ruin this class? Hell no

*In PvE if you had bunch of loading time for x15 reaver stack

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Ok so you didn’t understand what i said about CCs, but i’ll help you with this.
At death’s door = 18% dmg deflection for 10sec with a cd of 50sec and a feat that no conq should spec into
Unstoppable = 30% dmg deflection for 15sec with a cd of 30sec and a feat that very barb should have
You understand now that just saying that both barb and conq have an ability to deflect dmg when they’re on low life is a bit incomplete?

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About conq ress, like Cappa put it, if people don’t die, then there’s no need for it. Conq can’t really heal. You can use heal banner, but it’s not that good really, and groups and raids in PvE always look for healers. Buffs? The only buffs conq gives are the discipline and formation passive smaller versions (much smaller effect for the group) and then the heroic banner. A guard gives way better buffs. Debuffs, no question about that. Only demo comes close but just for magical torments.

If conq were that incredible, I would see a lot more of them, but the fact is guards are sturdier and more reliable in general, and dts will always do the most dps of the three. Conq is the hardest tank to learn, at least for me, and it’s definitely not better than guard or dt, it’s just different. There are very few situations where conq can shine in PvE, like being the last one alive with the boss about to die, even if you’re surrounded by adds, you can finish off the boss with overcome the odds. Other than that, dt will always do more dps, and guard will be tougher.

I agree with Sinix about barb being very strong in PvP. It’s a very easy class to play with decap spec, not so much with hybrid spec, but still strong, with good burst too and the annoying boneshatter removing potions with absurd range and being a decent dot. The only hassle barb has is managing your stacks (using blood fury or removing the buff), which involves paying attention to your buffs. Just because barb vs conq duel is hard, it doesn’t mean barb is underpowered. Conq gets destroyed by bs just as well.

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Lmao i dont understand why you’re focusing on unstoppable so much when conq always have better mitigation than barb popped unstoppable. Unstoppable is a good feat but you cant say that “survivability” in front of conq

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What’s the point of comparing a tank with a rogue anyway? Guards and dts are just as sturdy as conqs, except they dont have as many bubbles or none in the case of dt, but they have their other strengths. Barb is a completely different playstyle, and barb can kill a conq especially if the barb is better. And a barb usually gets way more kills than a conq in minigames, especially if the conq has to get the flag.