Conqueror vs Barbarian quick comparison

Age of Conan Class Discussion
#21

What debuffs guards can provide way better than conqs? Tell me a single name what debuffs guards can provide that conqs cant? (Dont even try to count vengence lol)
And buffs? Guards can’t even get effects from Call to Arms how can you say its way better buff lol dont bring here guards to protect conq. They’re getting hard times enough rn. Try to get some respect for them…

… :sweat_smile:

Actually there are bunch of conqs already. Alright im not talking about nerfing it’s talking ability but debuffs, heals, CC’s. Why do you need those so much to perform as a tank? Conq is originally designed as supportive offtank at the very first time. Its not important, but just saying.

And another question, who said barb is underpowered? Bring that guy here lol. As you said barb can be very strong depending on who plays it. While conq can be a total god with good players. :joy:

#22

he meant theres no question conq has better debuffs :point_right: :point_left: btw feels like theres like 3 diffrent discussions going on here but everyone is replying on eachother :sweat_smile:

1 Like
#23

Call to Arms buff for the guardian : +10% hate, isn’t that a buff ?!? (maybe not the part of it you want (damages bonus) but it’s good for PvE.)

#24

well the Op is not very specific. It fails to mention if this is about pvp or pve :slight_smile:

Anyways. As far as I know, in pvp a barb is supposedly a natural born mage killer so why compare him to conq in the first place when he really should be hunting mages?

#25

Yeah it seems like it lol thank you for correction. Then at least we found some agreement on nerfing their debuffs.

#26

Alright then take it and give gaurd Will of Vivification. Its better for conq, right?

#27

Conq is definetly overpowered in pvp no one can deny that. And in pve, its hard to say which class is op actually, but conq definitely belongs to “good class” group considering by common sense.
Alright to be clear, this topic is written about pvp more. And, Why can’t you compare them when conqs also charging kb everyone like a crazy hippo all the time? Talking about how strong barb is actually makes conq even OPier. (And i can agree barb is very strong. Its not even the point)

#28

the only chance funcom would make a class balance change is if it would make content obsolete

1 Like
#29

Conq is good in PvE sure, but it isn’t even close to a DT in most cases, and most other thinks so too.

I saw earlier in the thread that someone mentioned there’s too many bosses with low prot, but even on bosses with high prot (emerald leviathan) DT still out dps conqs. DT still has good physical dmg, but people seem to think it only does magic dmg for some reason :smiley:

With that being said I do think this thread was about Conq in PvP, but later on in the thread PvE was also brought up so :sweat_smile:

1 Like
#30

You are correct, i just found it hilarious you thought barb is a balanced class, when in reality it’s right up there close to conq when it comes to how op it is in pvp.
As for what you can nerf from conq without affecting it in pve would probably be the healing from will of vivication, the debuffing speed from activating technique (though i still think conq has too many debuffs available) and burst of aggression reseting on kill (can maybe do something like -10sec cd on kill).

While i consider guard to be a pretty bad class at the moment, their buffs are pretty strong compared to what conq offers. In an usual pvp situation conq will give 1% crit chance, 50 natural health regen and 20% weapon dmg for 30sec every 2min, while guard 42% wep dmg for 10sec on 45sec cd, 45% wep dmg and 5% base spell dmg for 15sec on a 60sec cd and complete knock back immunity for 10sec on 2min cd (i remember 2min cd, but not sure).

1 Like
#31

Carnage conq can solo tank Leviathan at 2200 dps. DT cannot hit that number.

#32

My whole point was, correcting the error that was done with bosses and tanks in PvE.

  • Magical sensitive bosses should respond more to Magical Tanks Magic Damage and Spell Penetration + Spiritual Debuffs and these tanks should have the Best Protection.

  • Physical bosses should respond more to Physical Tanks Weapon Damage and Armor Penetration + Mitigation Debuffs and these tanks should have the Best Mitigation.

And Guardian should be the most balanced of them doing the dmg he did before he was nerfed.

Instead funcom just nerfed Guard because of people complaining about him in PvP, especially about his ability to be fast (During these days running was depleting your stamina) now it’s irrelevant but the nerf is still there.
Then because DT sucked, they gave him VoM, then nerfed VoM because people complained (In that case they where right)
Then made Conqueror OP to compete with DT and VoM in PvE, now everyone complains about Conqueror in PvP, Guard remained like that and completely forgotten and Physical bosses still respond more to the DT instead responding more to Physical Damage of Conqueror or Guard as it should be, so that didn’t even fix anything either lol
And the funniest thing of all, the DT who should be the magical specialist has crappier base protection and just steals the aggro… At least if he is a Shield DT he survives (That was a joke about Cloth Armor Tali DTs to break the Ice).

If there even is such a concept for funcom
In the end there is no concept of Magical/ Physical tank. It’s just a mess…
Just get whatever tank you can.

I remember a Public Raid member request, T3.5 asking for tanks saying ‘‘No more Conquerors we have 6 already’’

I really love Physical Bosses in Unchained mode though. With crappy protection but just T3/ UC gear i am able to solo tank them with DPS spec. And that’s the Mistake! Conqueror should be the one to main tank them.
Not DT.

#33

A DT with melee group buffs (zerker barb, guard, bs) can probably hit that number. Seen plenty of DTs on 2100 at least, and I bet it can be higher.

What gear did you go when you soloed it as carnage?
My record on this boss in brute is 2051 dps (in brute, full impi gear, t5 blunt, t6 neck, good group, Rare pots, NOT item shop pots)

I do believe carnage conq will out dps DT on that boss don’t get me wrong, but do you actually survive if you try impi? Not sure if it’s worth it if you need to go full steel behemoth, and I think a DT out aggroes it then, not sure. Haven’t really tried since I think carnage tanking is boring.

#34

Full Impi, T6 swords, T6 neck. Better hand pick your healers if you try it because you’re made of paper against that boss. I want to see the parse of 2051 because I don’t see it main tanking. Conq tops out tanking that at like 1700 with correct group buffs and because of that, usually less. And I’ve seen plenty of bad DTs that can only do 1500 DPS in tali, even recently.

2 Likes
#35

Yeah I guess I can see it working if you time bewilder/fangs after every 2nd alchemy, Off tanks goading/forcing on perfect timings (not when he’s about do to colors and light), and get blessing on the other alchemies and as you say, healers that basically babysit you :sweat_smile:

Yeah I know a lot of DTs are doing around 1500 and it’s a bit low imo. That being said it’s important to note that this does not show the potential of the class :smiley: Usually in the raids I’ve been in the DTs with brain land around 2k, but I have seen some of my friends land on 2,1k which I have also reached myself without actually trying to push higher recently since I don’t really play DT anymore. Conq I’ve been on 1800 and 1900 a couple of times, but 2051 was the best so far.

I did main tank it from basically 100-0 with a couple of force engage whenever I didn’t have a bubble, but it popped straight back to me after 2-3 hits

And yeah here’s the parse: https://gyazo.com/580ef7cfebef531bb4c3b1b3da6979cc
And proof it’s brute: https://gyazo.com/cda260ea4de868479b14de3cf730ffa4

Edit: I also divided the total dmg number on the length of the fight, and I landed on somewhere between 2030-2040 dps. Some parsers might show a bit different total dps numbers due to self inflicted dmg etc, but the point still stands as it’s pretty close :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like
#36

The numbers are actually true. Usually in every parser, you see over 2k dps dealt by DTs, unless they are fully ‘‘turtling’’ where they make around 700-800.

Truth be said, there is only a few DTs in Dread Spec that actually manage to climb the top 10 of DPS dealt. Personally i reach that point only with Desecration - General spec, RB feated and Shield but i have low Crit/ Hit chance anyway 10% at best. ‘‘Rotation does the trick though’’

Usually the majority hits that number only with Tali spec but still most around 1500-1700 etc.

As for Carnage Conqueror, i’ve seen same over 2k dps results, by experienced Conquerors, otherwise they are around 1500 as mentiioned.

The reason for low numbers, as i understand it, is lack of efficient rotation, not watching shields and having slower reaction. Maybe even keybind setup. Also you see less usage of the correct Covenants, even less people use Cunning Deflection and there is a complete lack of ‘‘Aggro switch rotation’’ in most Raids when another tank is low and you need to save him.

#37

Fair, but the numbers may vary depending on the fights, and tier

The fights I personally enjoy competing with myself on is t5 hg, t5 vistrix, emerald leviathan and 1st burn phase on lady zelandra. On these fights I have set goals on all my classes which I aim to beat, and I have an opinion on where each class «should» be.

1 Like
#38

All right, nice. Even if you allow that burnstats doesn’t count out of combat time and that’s why I don’t use it, I’m still impressed.

Mz2020, there’s only one covenant for DT, people who don’t spec Cunning are full Simple Jack, and if there’s an aggro switching issue in your raids, you have bad tanks or a bad raid leader pairing those people together if one completely outskills the other.

2 Likes
#39

You need to understand that what you think the game should be like when it comes to tanks and what funcom thought it should be like are 2 completely different things. There is no such thing as “magical specialist”.

The thing that makes certain tanks better for certain boss fights is the boss’s armour/protection and that is cause any tank can survive any boss, but not necessarily keep aggro.

You also can’t just throw random DPS numbers without specifying the boss fight itself, like Fireblow and Midge are talking about T6 leviathan.

1 Like
#40

Makes sense. As for the numbers i see them usually at T3. They are almost the same in Raid Finder though most of the time but RF is a complete mess anyway, no reason to take it much into account.

And it’s true, for some reason you see less aggro switch rotations the whole time, which is the number one thing a ‘‘Tanking Group’’ should be able to do.

I remember Guardian boss in T3, we tanked him 2 Conquerors 2 DTs and we had a Bear Shaman healing us and we managed because of correct aggro switch and the best equipment we used was Khitai Last Legion purples. Although, we used a Conqueror Rez once during the fight.
But that, was wrong tactic from the start…

In any case, aggro was equally distributed among DTs and Conquerors with absolute success, so i believe the ‘‘Aggro’’ Issue between tanks, as the game has been tweaked now, is more of a L2P issue.

Regardless, there can be situations in which DT gets too much aggro, i believe this is more ‘‘Our’’ fault for abusing the DPS and when coupled with some Boss mechanics can become troublesome.
Still, every tank has ‘‘Aggro locking tools’’ every DPS dealer has ‘‘Hate decrease tools’’ but fewer people use them unfortunately.