Aggro was split between the tanks on a fight with an aggro reset every 25 seconds? I’m so impressed.
Well when someone was real close to death we simply pulled the boss and tried to lock. Sometimes it was switching too fast, true. Didn’t knew his aggro resets though, interesting.
It doesn’t take much skill to aggro lock with Goad or Forced Engage, i believe most are just slackers.
Forced engage has nothing to do with aggro list. It just makes the boss target you for a few seconds, that’s it, kinda like dread shadow. It has nothing to do with goad.
Just as goad only sets you even with highest aggro target on aggro list, FE only forces the mob to look at you for 3 seconds. And some bosses are immune to hate list modifications entirely. And there are plenty of raid and dungeon bosses with aggro resets.
Nobody aggro locks anything with goad, unless it’s s a PoM with 5 Necros and you piggy back off them from the very start.
you seem to miss a lot of informations about the game mechanics.
About Daimone : you lose agro if you get knocked back, you can easily tank that boss with 2 persons on different sides of the boss, and have the other one irritate the boss asap when the previous tank gets kb.
was about to add more about Goad and FE, but Patoson and Midge covered that already.
I know how aggro locking with Goad works Increasing the hate you are generating to keep it otherwise it will work like Forced Engage.
My though is, these tools are emergency utilities, if a tanking group knows how to not hit shields, build up and irritate it’s propably enough to keep a flawless rotation. Regardless everyone should use them.
About these bosses mechanics… I only knew about Hathor Ka aggro reset. Never heard anything else mentioned but i join mainly PUGs.
Most of these are done with more people against Daimone then on Charon for some reason. Seems it should be quite the opposite.
The most common misinformation i came across most of the time, is that Goad resets aggro, while it doesn’t and that Forced Engage is for aggro locking.
So as you can see, many players will not know how to use these tools, and lack of Raid Mechanic data, makes things worse. I believe the source of low quality raiding is RF but i don’t want to bring a 3rd subject into a Conq vs Barb comparison
In any case, all of these are the reasons i haven’t gone to T4 content yet. A tank should be able to tank there, not being carried and for that he needs Elusive/ Chromatic/ Resolve. And the only way to become an asset, is to master the old world content. T1/T2/T3 Unchained, Khitai HMs and Turan and then T4.
Goad generates zero aggro on its own.
This is good, but it’s also important to sometimes understand why people do not get aggro in t4 for example. And for this you need self-insight. Sometimes you have top tier players just stealing the show, or someone with full geared toons, or simply the player just sucks 
But it’s important to figure out why one does not get aggro, and try to solve it from there. It’s pretty hopeless if you try to go tank the potato boss in t3,5 on a guard/conq when there’s a t6 dt next to you. But also when you’re in T5 on Vistrix and you’re doing 700 dps on a conq there’s usually not much else to blame than yourself. Again: Self-insight is important.
And just quick about goad and forced engange
Goad: Gives you basically exact same amount of aggro as the person with aggro at this moment. If you use this at 100% it does nothing except you put the debuff on it so no one else can goad for 30sec. I’d say maybe it gives like 95% of the aggroholders aggro since if you don’t follow up with anything (high dmg combo, irritate, aggro burst in general) you will lose it immidietly more or less. Sometimes you use it for saving someone (emergencies), and sometimes it is planned (Lotus Regression, Ethram-fal).
Forced: You are forcing the target to hit you for like 3 seconds then it goes back to the original aggroholder. This does not affect the aggrotable at all. Some bosses even refuses to be affected by this.
Is this topic about pvp or PvE? I see both mentioned, so I’m going to weigh in with some unpopular opinions.
In PvP, conq and many other tanks pop off if the game is imbalanced. If a team lacks the players who can actually deal with conq through movement and CC, the conq will pop off. Brute Conq has a chain of combos they must execute to be “efficient” damage/burst. If you stand still, you will die in seconds. Brute conq also has nowhere near the CC capability of guard or DT, as they lack a reliable defensive AOE cc. Their CC diversity is also very low. It’s an offensive class that can do very little to help their back line other than apply debuffs. Personally, I don’t think brute conq itself is much of an issue. Their survivability is clearly too high, however.
The issue manifests itself when the brute conq is on a team with a guardian or barbarian/bear shaman. With those classes and coordination, brute conq and barb will tear through most targets with relative ease. Personally I think FA9 needs to be an AA combo, as it is responsible for the majority of conq burst. This would also force conqs to choose between big burst with FA9, or survivability and consistent dps with BFC. No other class gets a khitai combo quite as powerful as FA9. I also think the debuff potential of conq is way too strong, and grant technique/plant banner should not allow the conq to apply torments on all damage.
Guardian has insane group buffs. Stand your Ground, Call to Arms, and Ardent Battle Cry are all huge damage boosts. I can imagine some really crazy combos with bear shaman and barbarian.
When playing my mage, a barb or conq alone is not something that feels difficult to deal with. It’s a combination of barb and conq that feels absolutely ridiculous unless you get support.
Anyone that thinks duels should be a metric for class balance should re-evaluate that opinion.
I also think barbarian is clearly far more concerning from a balance perspective than conq is, as half the classes can’t reasonably even hit barbs as they lag teleport across the screen.
Everyone is gangsta until they meet t6 necro in PUG mini
DT doesnt have kb. Conq have aoe kb, fear, insta snare, silence, charning kb if you want even on brute conq. I think conq have definetly better CC’s than dt. Guards can have better cc’s than conqs by sacrificing huge amount of dps and survivality.
Trust me i had a lot of 2vs2 matchups 9 years ago, guard + bs is one of worst. They couldn’t produce meaningful dps to kill someone, even tho it was when guard was actually very good.
Every classes are big threat if they’re two and you’re not getting supports actually. Of course conq is not very big deal when its alone and you’re in range
Duel performance also should be considered to adjust balance, because its also official content in the game. Hox got several buffs becuase they were too weak at duel and players moaned about it
Its mostly coming from bad ping/net code. When i played aoc in ~20 ping it was fast but didnt teleported and you could still land combos.
You’re not thinking about when the classes’ CCs are useful. All DT CCs excluding dooming presence are incredibly quick combos that go off nearly instantly, that are very easy to land because they’re either targeted or AoE. This makes their CC’s incredibly reliable, which means they can come in exceedingly useful when protecting a team mate. This plays to the classes’ strengths already because DT is also very easy to kite, meaning it is most effective when it is AoEing down the other team’s melee. Often a team’s melee group will push into the other team’s backline, where the DT can drop its’ CCs to both save teammates and dish out large amounts of damage.
Conq CCs are all more aggressively focused. Overwhelm is a long animation, and has a much narrower cone than mind shatter or dooming presence. It’s unreliable to rely on your conq to drop what they’re doing to come running back from its’ job to drop an overwhelm. Batter Aside is a knockback, and generally overlaps with the PoM’s role of dropping defensive knockbacks. Burst of Aggression can definitely be used defensively, but also has the stipulation that the conq has not bubbled recently.
The way conq is designed, unlike DT, is that it’s much better at chasing targets than DT, but worse at this role than Guardian. It can provide a multitude of debuffs on its’ target before the rest of the melee group switches onto that target, and its’ variety of quick knockbacks provide aggressive and instant-kill options if your team is coordinated.
Where guard excels is chasing targets down and providing consistent, uninterruptable DPS while also providing support and buffs for its’ team, along with speed bonuses and a bubble which essentially makes it un-CCable… A decked out guardian has ridiculously high passive crowd control resists, meaning the enemy team is often burning crowd controls from its’ limited pool to try to stop 10k counterweights from going off. I felt the need to compare the three tanks here for you, because you’re clearly in the mindset that hur dur conq is best tank and guardian is worst. Guardian is one of the most frustrating tanks to play against because often times you have to roll the dice and hope that your crowd controls land effectively, and is by far the most difficult tank to kite. Conq and DT are pathetically easy to kite in comparison, although in the pug minigames you likely play in, there are probably very few players even attempting to kite.
Guardian does not lose much damage by picking up the additional CCs in juggernaut. Consider the following builds:
vs.
The damage will be incredibly similar between builds. What you’re actually losing is survivability in the support oriented build, with the loss of the general tree. What you gain are reliable, quick CCs at the cost of what? 15% weapon damage? 500 protection on a class that is never the first target? Where is all this ‘lost damage’ coming from?
Any 2v2 team that contains a bear shaman + physical is hardly ‘one of the worst’. It’s not as strong as BS + Barb or BS + Conq, but to call it the worst is insincere.
Yes, 2v1 is always a big threat, but you’re missing the point. Barb has incredibly strong chasing tools, and conq fills the holes in barb’s debuff game perfectly. If a clothy is unfortunate enough to get breach+feint attack then a barb jump combos an upheaval/decap from across the map, it’s almost certainly a death.
HoX did not receive buffs because they were ‘weak at dueling’. What patch are you talking about? The class has changed very little in AoC history, aside from receiving really dumb PvE runes that make it braindead in PvP.
It’s bad netcode for sure. It has nothing to do with ping - I have always played at roughly 120 ms, and compared to 2009-2011, the servers simply cannot keep up with character positions when speed buffs are involved.
How fast dooming precense is? Its fasster than cut throat so it never gets interrupted at all? Its good cc its kinda must for pvp but its far from “fast” 
and i would always pick aoe kb over aoe fear.
Its faster than dooming presence…
Stun, fear dont give foes immune of it??? You not gonna use kb because pom will kb foes??? Lmao
And im not gonna add on your very personal opinion on guard. If guard is that amazing why only few guards are remaining rn? There are only 3 tanks in the game but one of most frustrating tanks? *3th out of 3 to be specific.
This is one of worst guard build ive ever seen before. But feat is preference its all fine as long as its working for you.
Btw you already lost a lot of dps actually.
Second one seems kinda usable.
Try it if you cant beilive it. We didnt try every possible combination but they were definetely bad. Barb+bs is really strong but we found that pom + barb works even better. Fun fact
It says you’re definetly playing caster as main. They were given interrupt on hellfire and phoenix cloak got significantly buffed.
And most important thing, funcom removed after-delays on all combos by fixing combo molding. It was the game changer for hox. Before this, Pillar was unusable. The patch wasnt only for hox, but hox was the only class got actual advance from the patch.
People would play anyclass if its good enough. Conq revamp made the game as Age of Conq for example. Guard is just bad in pvp. And not even good on pve as well. Thats the fact even apes know.
Lmao Yeah it seems like my mistake.
But its kinda sad that is the only part you can quote on my thread. 
If you think an unkiteable tank that can nearly one shot clothies and is by far the hardest to CC is bad in pvp I’m not sure what to tell you. You also have insane hit rating which makes it by very far the best ranger/sin destroyer. Heck you can even stack both hit rating perks and still get plenty enough crits thanks to feats (although that’d be a gamble with t1 gear like we’re doing on Fury).
Yeah a guard without team buffs and heals will lose some matchups 1o1 (I suspect not nearly as many as you think) but nobody in their right mind cares. There are plenty of impossible matchups in duels, it was and will always be the case. Brute conq is way too strong in pvp OVERALL that’s the only thing I can agree with.
Guard sure is boring as hell in pvp once you’ve played it for some time because your damage output consists of just spamming CW. It has too many broken and useless feats and there is no alternative to CW when it comes to damage which sucks. Other classes usually have a few more viable options but they too have their share of broken and useless feats.
Yeah, Shadowed Soul anti CC/ dmg boost and Dark Burden ranged snare are indeed very quick and the later can’t be avoided.
Dooming Pressence can be interupted most of the time because of it’s long animation, yet if you manage to make the opponent exhaust his options you can hit it easy enough or if he doesn’t pay attention.
It has a better effect when there is a nice concentration during group fights, especially in close quarters (narrow places) like Lost Temple, when there is 2 melee groups fighting.
An example: Reaper of malacodor feated then unhallowed blight, a quick sweep combo because of it’s AoE effect to deliver the Unholy dmg you have build and then Dooming Pressence with VoM stacks running, can deliver a massive dmg output and hardly anyone can manage to resist it during that time.
Of course Shadow Hex + Spreading Shadows if coupled with it’s buff from Shadowed Soul if used together, adds even more.
Although you wont find many using Spreading Shadows or Reaper of Malacodor since they just affect 3 targets max and Blighted Soul/ Blighted Touch AoE, proc enough anyway, but their effect will affect a Dooming Pressence of course as will everything.
You only really need an AoE from a Demo combined with that and the enemy group is nearly destroyed if caught in a narrow space that way.
But really, and that applies to even skilled DTs, we suck in duels compared to Guardian unless we lvl AAs and use the best tools we can get. I only saw a few DTs excell in duels, but they are very skilled and experienced.
I believe Guardian is one of the few classes that can survive DT very good and gain the advantage through knockbacks and stance dancing. Far better dueler then DT. If he had more dps though, he would indeed gain a reasonable amount of DT kills.
Where? I want it explicitly explained to me where all this “lost dps” is coming from. 30% weapon damage from improved frenzy + sustained rage in general?
Dude, the interrupt on HFB has been around since 1.05 which was released in 2009. Same with the Phoenix cloak duration + speed feats in possession. 1.05 was the same patch which gave guardian the broken bloody vengeance, rangers insanely powerful crossbow penshots without line of sight, and made demonologists the best class in the history of AoC for an incredibly long period of time. Compared to the rest of the broken stuff in 1.05, nobody batted an eye that hellfire breath interrupted or Phoenix cloak was extended.
I’m also not sure the HFB interrupt was added in 1.05. It might’ve been like that since launch.
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