Dual-Wielding weapons in future conan exiles update

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23

This one disagrees that there is ever a universal best melee weapon. Too many factors at play. Polearms are extremely good in many situations.
Especially depending upon the polearm.

Dueling forms and battlefield forms tend to dovetail significantly, especially in situations with more armour on the field. If we see mail or more protective as kit for soldiers, swords, especially cutting blades, become less utile on the field and are almost relegated to EDC or dueling weapons rather than implements of war (to note, if Funcom is revising weapons, Swords should have the 0 penetration while Axes should be the middle ground between damage and penetration).
But that rabbit hole has been in the process of digging for literal millenia.

One important note is that a person can be a decent combatant while lacking formal training. Probably not going to win lots of duels, even tho many Maestro consider the untrained bravado less dangerous than only masters at arms, but good athleticism can carry quite a distance.
Especially if there is armour in play.

For those not using a system, this one always suggests getting a second weapon. Again, mostly for defense, but also Incase the primary is removed or one has ambivalent handedness.
Fights stick to the manual for about two seconds outside of the sparring hall.

24

Yes I was being a bit tongue in cheek :slightly_smiling_face: All weapons are tools designed for certain situations and the best weapon is the one designed for that situation.

I certainly agree that a back up weapon is a good idea. Thatā€™s why Highlanders for example had dirkand a broadsword (minimum). Just pointing out that using both at once does not appear to have been standard practice and I trust whatever reasons they might have had for that. None of us can say what really happens in a fight tithe death with archaic weapons

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25

Isnā€™t it kinda implemented already? I am talking about throwing axe and 1h weapon.

It would require to make a lot of different attack animations for each combination though.

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26

There are extensive documentations on how at least pre-modern European fights to the death went!
Itā€™s just a pain to get them.
Most are church or legal records.
Church because thatā€™s where all the records were kept in many cases
Legal because judicial dueling was a very significant part of jurisprudence in some times and places.

While the particulars of how weapons are used on the field are largely lost aside from poetic description or Roman manualsā€¦
The inventories of arms are not lost!
Further, there are legal records regarding how a levy, fyrd, or men at arms were expected to be equiped in addition to their numbers in fulfilling feudal obligations.
Mind you, the individual soldier or militia person may bring more than the mandatory kit, but they often had at least the minimum.

As far as this one knows, the Caledonians had a deep love of shields. With the occasional spiked variety seeing use. Single central spike, not like the puffer fish helms in the Pacific. A shield is almost without exception a superior option to a dagger. Especially when paired with a basket hilt sword. Mind you, the claymore was more a weapon of the age of Pike and Powder than the Middle Ages, but thatā€™s getting into left field.

This one can go rummaging for museum references, but itā€™s been a few years since Iā€™ve had those put together for a class.

Edit: Easiest way to get to the documents, or at least to look at them is to have credentials as a documentary Journalist, good references from other museums (easy enough to get if one has time to do volunteer work), or a recommendation from and education establishment.

In regards to having it in game.
It is as anti-practical as rushing into battle in a fur banana hammockā€¦
But rule of cool has to take prime placement in this regard. If the character can drink sewage with no adverse health issues, perhaps they likewise possess the near super human ability to make dual wielding viable on par with longarm or sword and board fighting styles.

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27

I dunnoā€¦ But I donā€™t think I would be OK with the ability to dual-wield all existing 1H weapons. Iā€™m fine with dual-wield being a specialty class of itā€™s own. I think having more items in that class might be nice tho!

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28

Agreed, imagine the idea some guy walking around with boss farmed 1H in each hand. it would be broken lmao though that idea right there makes me want dual wep so bad haha

but its a nice dream i suppose.

29

Well if FC follows the precedent set by most other game companies as soon as you add a second one the damage of each is cut to 45 or 50%.

30

Weā€™ve already seen that adding a second weapon reduces oneā€™s ability to apply problems like bleed.

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31

I was trained by the US military to use an enemyā€™s helmet, the heel of my boot, and the butt of my rifle as a lethal weapon. This is one of the reasons Conan Exiles spoke to me, is that we are really pretty deadly in melee.

Another mass media vehicle that shows dual-wielding in the Huron style is The Patriot. It at least aspires to be what a combatant might do to mimic or mirror the ā€œstyleā€ of an indigenous person. Part of what people forget about combat is we, even today, aim to create casualties who will yell out for aid. This removes a significant contingent of any squad from the battlefield. However, I would estimate dual-wielding like this in close quarters is super-ineffective vs a guy with so much as a broomstick.

As a last resort, a warrior with two weapons creating huge bodily havoc might have significant emotional impact on the rank and file soldier. This is what was teased with CEā€™s ā€œAI,ā€ that the cry out feature would be much better developed, and that the NPCs would react differently in such situations.

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32

If thatā€™s the intention, my weapon of choice would be a greatsword instead of two lighter weapons. The reach and momentum serve as defensive elements in addition to crushing your enemies and seeing them driven before you. (The sword wonā€™t help you hear any lamentation.) Itā€™s one of the few historical weapons with which training against multiple opponents was standard practice.

But indeed, severely wounding rather than killing on a battlefield tends to be more cost-effective. At minimum, another warrior is needed to take the wounded to safety, removing an extra combatant. An interesting historical anecdote is during the Conquest of Mexico. The Natives tended to try to incapacitate and capture opponents to be taken as sacrifices, which was always a risky idea when the opponent was fighting back, especially such disciplined troops as CortĆ©sā€™s core units. The Spaniard foot troops, on the other hand, were instructed to stab the enemies in the stomach.

(Now I feel like I missed something, because I wasnā€™t trained to use a helmet as a weapon. A trenching spade, yes, but not a helmet. Then again, I served in the Finnish Signal Corps, who are probably not expected to see much close-quarters action.)

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33

Helmeted enemy: standing half-choke/quarter nelson from behind, press down and twist while exerting body force. Heā€™ll go to the ground, snapping his neck. This is why they unbuckle the chin strap when running into close quarters. TMYK :rainbow:

34

Exactly that - implement two-weapon fighting with damage penalties of maybe 10-15% and make it right at the top of one the perk tree, with the penalties being much higher if you donā€™t have the perkā€¦I donā€™t mind waiting as long as possible for that

35

im not saying your idea is dumb or anything like that, in fact i would love if they did this. i would wait on this if they gave us even a sliver of hope.
plus what i said originally was to be taken as a joke.
now the proposed perks and penalties system isnt viable.
think about iron and steel, sure your system makes boss farmed dual fair but it would make regular dual wields, like two iron swords, worthless.
they would need less penalties, suppose we are mixing and matching different tiers?
im sure there is a formula for this that can be plugged in but they would have to buff and nerf tons of other stuff like armor penetration percentage, armor ratings etc. on top of making brand new perks, that means removing old perks and reworking the leveling system.

i imagine its why they never added this in the first place.

edit: not saying dual wield is impossible either. its just a long wait is all

36

@LostBrythunian Sorry Iā€™ve been offline for a couple of days. Yes, the particulars being mostly lost is what I mean - like you said we have records, and there are manuals from many times and places that show how things were erā€¦ expected to go! But aside from time travel or imagination weā€™ll never get closer than that. By the way, Iā€™m not trying to be argumentative or anything - I just find this stuff fascinating as a person from a military family who has always been interested in weapon fighting.

Donā€™t know why Iā€™m bringing this up exactly, but this discussion about improvised weapons reminds me. The ancient Greek general Pyrrhus was supposedly killed by an old woman dropping a roof tile on his head during an urban battle.

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37

And a spy drone was shot down by a lady with a jar of pickled tomatoes in a more recent conflict. In the real world, just about anything can be weaponized if you try hard enough.

Why canā€™t we just throw rocks in the game? People have been doing that since before they were people. Why canā€™t we take a long stick and call it a quarterstaff and bludgeon people with it? Why canā€™t we strangle people with a piece of knotted thread?

Before going into any fancy dual-wielding fantasy martial arts, could we first improve the very basics of old-fashioned labor-saving devices for crushing your enemies?

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38

No worries at all.
This one could go on for far too long on the topic. The HEMA group that tolerates this one is currently rebuilding some Messer techniques, beyound that, we are very acquainted with Silver, Lichtenauer, and Fiore. However, there are numerous oddities when converting from manuals to practical. One, some manualā€™s (for dueling specifically) are either incomplete or deliberately flawed. Two, some have satire we barely catch due to loss of context. Three, a few of them have techniques that are perfectly viable with modern, through tempered blades. These maneuvers would be very questionable with pre-modern steel of anything but the highest quality we have found. So there is an excellent chance our superior armaments allow us to use a technique in a way it was never intended.
That is a huge danger of reconstruction from broken lineages.

Military manuals are more reliable, as the orders of the individual soldiers or even formations are not nearly as secretive as dueling is. The actual strategies and especially blue print equivalents of fortifications are much more prized.
Of course, what is used in a duel may be near useless in war, and the habits of a good soldier or knight are suicidal in duels that eschew the wearing of armour.

John Talbot, the English Achilles, the Terror of the French, died pinned under his horse when took an axe to his noggin.

Takeda Shingenā€™s death is a subject of wild speculation. A personal favourite being that an assassin stabbed up his fourth point of contact while he was engaged in a #2. Given he had well documented gut troubles (possible IBS, possibly any number of complications due to his rumoured prodigious drinking habits) a sudden pain while engaged with effluvium would be nothing out of the ordinary.

Great warriors die to misadventure all the time. Likewise, one unlucky circumstance can end a duel abruptly and with a disappointment.

Many knights passed to the ā€œheat of battleā€.
If one wants a taste of the ā€œHeat of Battleā€ put on a full set of sweats and biker leathers, then 'Murikan Football pads over that. With arm and leg weights. Now practice boxing. In the Summer. No hiding in the shade. With more ale/wine than water to drink.
Medieval gear was better fitted than that, but aketon/gambeson + mail/brigandine does not breathe. Especially as much of it was double layer wool or canvas with padding between those layers.

But thatā€™s a digression.

Bringing it back to game, this one would love to see more ā€œimprovised weaponsā€ such as broken bottles or metal tankards, especially as off hand weapons. Especially not as legends or rare drops. Instead the broken bottle can be crafted by hand. 1 glass flask + 1 stone. Low durability, low penetration, but causes bleed.
The tankard could be reinforced at the blacksmith bench with an iron bar.
If we must make a feat to learn them, perhaps include them when one learns the fermentation vat? Or better yet they are unlocked the first time one drinks and alcoholic drink, adds the feat bar brawler?

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39

You know, not many games have quarterstaffs for some reason! Iā€™ve noticed this. Even though theyā€™re a simple, ubiquitous and effective weapon in all times and places. Theyā€™re classic. Conan has a couple of mauls that look like staves. Elden Ring doesnā€™t have them, even old Skyrim doesnā€™t. If itā€™s not a wizardā€™s staff it doesnā€™t get a look in apparently.

I really like using the oar in Conan, I love that it has the maul moveset. Put an advanced blunt fitting on it and knock people out with a stick! But itā€™s a bit of a novelty weapon.

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40

Iā€™ve suggested many times that they could add quarterstaves into Conan Exiles by simply reusing the old spear light attack combo. Beating people (and dead horses) with sticks should be a thing in the game.

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41

Sorry, but dead horses should be POKED with a stick! :face_with_monocle:

42

I will totally dual-wield spatulas.

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