Event Log Player names: yay or nay?

Conan Exiles General Discussion
1

Hello Exiles,

we saw your discussions around the Event Log mentioning player names while taking, stealing, destroying or otherwise interacting with the environment.

We would like to make sure to get a feeling for what the majority if you think and what you would feel comfortable with.

Please help us by answering these polls and also share it with your friends so we can get as much input as possible on this.

These options are for official servers only. We are looking into adding admin/server setting for private server owners and admins to change this as they see fit on their own servers.

FOR OFFICIAL PVP SERVERS

  • Name shown
  • No name shown
  • I don’t mind either way

0 voters

FOR OFFICIAL PVE SERVERS

  • Name shown
  • No name shown
  • I don’t mind either way

0 voters

FOR OFFICIAL PVE-C SERVERS

  • Name shown
  • No name shown
  • I don’t mind either way

0 voters

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I think the solution, that you anonymize a player attack but still hint at a player is best solution. In many cases you can get a feeling who your enemy is. It’s also important to give solitary players a chance to fight clans or more active players.

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Please please please
 Don’t make the mistake to appeal to a vocal minority. Don’t fall into this trap.
For the love of Crom, removing the player name from the Event Log is very VERY BAD idea for so many reasons that I’m going to explain below.
I’m not usually participating to feedback as I trust Funcom to make the right call. That’s also why I also didn’t participate in the previous community discussions on the topic “Showing the name of who raided you is bad”
 but when I saw the patchnotes today, I was like “No
 They can’t possibly think about doing that ?!?”

I totally agree that listening to Community Feedback is good. However, in my opinion, you really shouldn’t blindly rely on it when it comes to game balance decisions, especially when it’s just reduced to a poll on a forum, where you’ll get the opinion of a very small percentage of your whole community.

Removing or keeping player name in event log is not just a small change, it’s a major game changer. And in the best games involving PvP, you KNOW who attacked you, raided you, stole from you. Why is that?

  1. Because when a player attack / raid / steal someone else, if he/she’s here for PvP, he/she’s supposed to be a tough guy/girl. And a tough guy/girl should be ready to deal with the consequences of his/her actions. This is the real “Sandbox” principle, and it should be kept intact that way. Wanting to remain anonymous when you do something negative to another player is just plain cowardness. You wan’t to be a raider? Just deal with the consequences. Other players are not just like NPCs you could farm with no reprisal. They have the right to have the tools to know who is responsible for impacting negatively their game experience. Removing the player name from the event log will accomplish only one thing: to encourage the worst behavior (griefing, harassment) from coward people who don’t want to deal with the consequences of their actions.

All points I’ve read in favor of removing player name from the event log so far are very questionable on the intellectual honesty level:

  • “In reality, you can’t know when someone vandalize your property or steal something in your house when you’re away”
    Really? In that case, what is exactly the job of the police? Investigation? gathering Fingerprints? Catch the robbers? Granted, all robbery cases are far from being all solved around the world, but at least, there’s is a fair risk for the robber to have to deal with the consequences of his actions. There is no 100% chance of complete impunity. You have nothing of that in a survival game like Conan Exiles (and it’s perfectly normal)
 but being able to have the player name of the one who plundered your base is a decent (even if it’s not perfect) way to balance the issue. Being able to make justice yourself by knowing who you should target is even consistent in a survival game.
    Furthermore, the point “it should be more realistic” shouldn’t come on top before “we should have a balanced game”. To have a good, fun game, “game balance” should be the priority before realism. An immersive game that is seriously unbalanced, encouraging anonymous griefing and harassment by design is doomed to decline quickly on the servers involving PvP, no matter what other improvements you make to the game.

  • “In general, you still have a fair idea of who is your ennemy, without having his name.”
    Yeah. Right
 This kind of stance is made whether by people who never seriously played sandbox pvp games before, or are deeply dishonest. All sandbox pvp games are full of betrayals. In Conan Exiles and many other games in the same vein, I can’t count the number of times where an attack came from the interior (from “allies”, from “friends”). Betrayal is part of sandbox pvp games DNA. And in that case, to balance it, it’s REALLY important to know when a betrayal has occured and from who.

  1. Knowing who has attacked you when you were away is vital, because it generates emergent gameplay: if you don’t know who exactly attacked you, how could really start a war between Clans with a sound reason? Clan War is part of the game, part of the fun on PvP servers. For example if a dominating clan raids all smaller clans on a server, it’s good that everyone will be aware of it. It might generate diplomacy and alliances between all the small Clans to fight back against the biggest clans. All these interactions are part of the game. Also, when someone in a Clan attack another Clan without permission, there should be a way to know it, in order to be able to properly administrate a Clan. All this is part of the game experience right now. Remove the player name in the Event Log
 And it’s all gone, letting just anonymous griefing instead.

That’s why I voted “show the name” for PvP and PvE-Conflict servers
To be honest, I’m clearly dumbfounded to see that it’s even considered to remove the player name from the Event Log
 for all these reasons explained above.

For informative purpose, I have played more than 1500+ hours on Conan Exiles, played games like EvE Online for years, and I am also a professional from the game industry (for what it’s worth). I hope that sharing my point of view on the matter will have at least a little weight. I’m a hardcore fan of Conan Exiles, and to see it becoming a paradise for PvP players who don’t have the guts to deal with the consequences of their actions will make me really sad, and will probably seriously hurt my motivation to play the game. Having many bugs on CE never lowered my interest for the game, but this really bad game design decision could
 I sincerely hope you will backpedal on this point.

Best Regards,
a Hardcore Fan of Conan & Conan Exiles.

25 Likes
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I think the major problem here is that you think raiding is something bad. In fact it is part of the core game mechanic and people should not fear reprisal by ‘naming and shaming’ when they do it.

In fact Conan was a thief. But if I get it right you advocate that the magistrate should have known immediately that he broke into his tower and is plundering his goods? The event log is completely breaking the immersive feeling of a PvP server. I think I explained well enough in the event log discussion how it has a huge negative impact on the PvP community.

You should keep raiders at bay by building against it not by tracking their names on steam.

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The only thing i would add on the PVP servers is removing the player list as well. Maybe there is something that says x amount of players on, but to me, the offline raiding would not be so easy to accomplish, because you don’t know if they are online. If you run within mic distance, or if you actually id them ,then kudos for you and now you know 1 of the players that is online. No player list and no names would make for such a far better experience for raiding, as one would have to actually research and scout pre-raid.

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Please, don’t twist my words.
I never said that raiding is something bad.

You seemed to have completely missed my points:
On the contrary, I totally agree that raiding/destroying/stealing is part of the game and it should absolutely stay that way. But you must have a “risk versus reward” balance. By removing the name of who did it, you just remove the risk and get easy rewards with no consequences. You can spin it all you want, that’s not sandbox pvp. That’s just “cowards paradise” where everyone grief all they want in perfect anonymity. It’s so incredibly naive (or dishonest) to think that everything will go well and people will show restraint once the names are removed


Yes, Conan was a thief, a character from novels and comics
 And in these stories you are going to maintain that he has never had bounties on his head? he was never been caught stealing or identified by magic or because someone saw him stealing? Did he never endure some setbacks/reprisals for having stolen someone else? Come on, you’re not really honest in your reasoning here. Moreover, to get the immersive feeling similar to the novels or comics, the best type of game would be a single player game, or co-op multiplayer game with good NPC AI.

We are talking about a sandbox pvp game here, there are compromises that need to be done for game balance sake, players should have the ability to fight back to make it fun. Getting the name of the player who attacked when you were offline is the only mean to achieve that at the moment. If Funcom comes up with another idea to find the culprit, then why not, I will be completely ok with that, but the players needs to have a way to find who did it.

And yes, I read your posts. And I’m absolutely not convinced by your points: removing the name will not go as you think: it will hurt everyone, solo players, small clans, and big clans. The only winners here will be the cowards wanting rewards without taking any risk. It will increase toxicity, paranoia and distrust. I would even say, there will be no more point of being in clan after all, because the advantage of being part of a clan was to be precisely a deterrent with the clear message “if you attack me, you attack the group” and that’s normal. Yes playing solo in a survival game is supposed to be much harder than playing in clan, that’s just common sense. Survival is always easier in group. That’s precisely the goal of the group. And I say that while being a lone wolf most of the time! So I’m not speaking for me. I’m just honest with the way it should be.

Regarding the fact of knowing the Steam account, what the point of mentioning it here?
We’re talking about the event log. In the event log, the player name displayed is the character name, not the Steam account ID!

I totally agree that Steam Account ID shouldn’t be revealed anywhere to avoid RL harassment accross the games for revenge of something that could have happened on a Conan Exiles server. But this is an entirely different issue, related to the Player List, not the Event Log!

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I think you said you joined Officials sometime around Release, like in May. During Early Access prior to release it was generally a case of haves vs have nots. Players with another monitoring device could see the Steam list constantly, while people with one monitor could/would check every once in a while, if at all. As a democratizing tool it’s great, but as a snitch it’s a pain. Personally, if the Steam list could be masked*, I’d like it if the Player List were toggleable and switched off for PvP.


* As “invalid,” fonted or non-loadable characters will currently appear on the Steam List as “123” or similar, a character mask could easily be applied so that every name on the Server List is numerals.

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i play on PS4, but yeah, the tracking of ID’s is borderline insane imo. I know it is a tactic. I hate that on PS4, i have to go full no “offline” with my personal settings. But my psn name is still displayed if i click on from the player list. Removing that function would be easy imo.

I am not familiar with steam account Id’s. Is there a swtich like on PSN where you can hide, friends currently playing, etc? ON PSN, i can pretty much make it so no one even knows i am online. I would think Steam would have similiar settings. Sucks, but such is the life of a PVP exile :confused:

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@Tascha
Suggestion: instead of enforcing the removal of the character name from Event Log on all PVP servers and gambling on the Community impact, would it be possible to make it as an option and open a few experimental servers with the option activated, to monitor first and see how it unfolds? It would limit the risk of taking the wrong decision. As mentioned above, it’s a change that will probably not have just a minor impact on the Community so it could be worth it. But that’s just my two cents.

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Oh that all makes sense. I came here because of Conan from my cushy PS4 world, hoping to get back there for my leisure time someday. Old RDR/GTA5 was my former homeworld, and players from there were about as salty as anything in my known universe. Conan can’t be worse than that, can it? :eek: :wink:

In Steam, all you have to do is right-click the server and view server info. I keep that up on another monitor in case somebody is pulling something silly, like the aforementioned “invalid character” masking. I know all my clanmates do/have done this as well.

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The game had no Event Log at the start, and it was a JOY to play on PvP servers because you have to hunt and know your enemies when they attack or steal for you, this is PvP and no carebear system should exist, I have close to 2k hours of play.

Showing no names on event log is solo/small clan friendly, having names shown just punish those.

I understand the importance for the Log, but showing player names that stole things from chests or stations unlocked out in the open and close to windows is just silly, players must be cautious, simple as that, if someone break into your base go investigate who did.

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Ho I have no doubt it has been a joy for some players

I’m just not sure those were really ready to embrace the consequences of real PvP.

Calling “Carebear” a system which gives accountability to PvP actions
 well, I’m not sure either the use of the word “Carebear” is really fitting here. It seems quite the contrary in fact. Raiding a base of someone offline, with no chance of being identified is no real PvP, it doesn’t generate PvP combat, it’s more or less free loot with no risk of setback because it’s done anonymously.

When you say “if someone break into your base go investigate who did”, I’m really interested to know how you can investigate
 if you don’t have any name in the Event Log. The poll is about having player names in Event Log, Yes or No. If you have no name at all in the Event Log, how can you investigate?

If there is a way to name players destroying structures (which is the most important part in my opinion) while removing the name of those who just open unlocked chests and stuff remaining in crafting stations, then I would say “Ok, why not, as no player should complain or track robbers if they leave stuff in the open in a survival game”. What I’m really concerned about is the complete removal of player names for all kind of actions in the Event Log. This would be going too far, and will undoubtly backfire.

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Don’t show names. Give the little guys a chance. Or create thralls that notify you who. Large Zerg clans can spam structure all over the map that they rarely go to. If they aren’t operating out of a structure frequently and defending it actively then there is no reason to know which solo blew into it. If you are defending and using a base actively then you will know who is sieging it.

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What you just said will hurt more the “little guys” than big clans:
Big clans can have members who relay one another each day of the week, on the 6h time window to destroy structures. Now, if we’re taking precisely the example of a little guy, assuming he has a job and/or a family life and can’t be connected 6 hours a day, is it really honest to say that he will be able to watch his home as efficiently as a big clan? The answer is “No”. The player name removal will be a pain in the ■■■ for big clans, that’s for sure, but it will become a nightmare for the “little guys” as you say. This will just make their life even harder without even the possibility of retaliating.

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Yes, it generates PvP combat, you and others that needs to rely on a system to know who to attack, it was like this before and everyone just played fine, players that cant handle this usually go to PvE-C.

Talk to ppl, pay attention on chat, take a serious look on the surroundings and the bases of suspicious players you know, see if there is nothing new around like a campfire, chest, artidan table or even a vault, its not easy but certainly thriving. If you have no clue just do the same, raid the ones you think who attacked you, they won’t know either if you dont leave any traces.

Like @RaidBoss said, I agree that could exist a Thrall messenger that (if not killed) could add names on the event log, there is always room to please every crowd.

I for exemple, am fine with showing names if the player destroy something, but stealing should remain unnamed.

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You have to apply a #in front of your name. I started doing this so our enemies would not track my online activities on battlemetrics or steam.

Regarding the discussion here: From what I get the main argument here from people who wish player names on the log is ‘accountability’ for ones actions. In my opinion this is a really misguided game concept. It leads to social ties dictating the whole PvP dynamics on a server. I however think that the balance on a server should be by builds vs farming and using raiding resources.

more arguments...

I don’t want any social predicament for raiding a rarely used farmbase that stands out in the open. Right now such buildings are rarely attacked because it might draw a bigger conflict to a small opportunistic attack. So players choose to spare the hassle and even very poorly designed buildings remain unraided.

I really believe in game balance by building designs and raiders taking (purely technical) opportunities when they find flaws in bases. I do not believe in moral judgement regarding this and I really dislike any tool in-game that is encouraging people to take things personal instead of tactical. The event logs important info should be: ‘build smarter’. It should inspire you to improve your base building and not to track down a player name. Actually some experience of mine where even going so far, that the so called ‘accountability’ creates an atmosphere of bullying and clique building. Everyone is just trying to please the alpha clan and only solo players or foreign sounding names are free for everyone to abuse.

One other thing is that not knowing who raided you and on the other hand being carefully while raiding is adding a special kind of thrill to the game. I can say this because I played even before the event log was introduced. The whole world feels more vivid and dangerous. Much more like it was promised in the CE trailers :slight_smile:

I don’t want to bore everyone with the details, I posted enough on this :slight_smile:
I noticed that I am seemingly a minority with my opinion on this forum. However please be still open to my arguments. My arguments aren’t less valid just because my opinion is not uttered as frequently as others. Please also note that casual PvP focused gamers are not as present on funcoms media channels as roleplaying and PvE-C interested players. It might not always reflect the playerbases needs what people want here on the forum.

If you take away each element of PvP that is spicing things up, there won’t be any great moments of triumph or agony anymore. Getting raided is as much part of the game as it is to dominate others.

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Ohhh dear please, please, if you decide to remove them in any case, leave the option to turn them on a server-to-server basis. My server has issues already with griefers because it is PVE. It would be a nightmare if the names were anonymous.

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IF YOU DO GET RID OF NAMES MAKE IT OPTIONAL ON UNOFFICIAL SERVERS.

I’m in a server that is pve with a strong community work together aspect. We thrive on being able to trust one another. Having the ability to see who is breaking the trust in the server has been a great help for keeping our community going. Please don’t do this we don’t want to be forced to have all containers autolocked it ruins our server. UTTERLY.

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I have played CE back then in the times before the event log got introduced. And when it came it took away a huge fun aspect of the survival gameplay. I thought it was really sad even then, but I also understood that there was some need of a widely accessible debugging tool for the EA period. There was also a time when a lot of people accused chinese clans of eploiting and it resulted in salty racist and xenophobic conspiracies growing in the CE community. I totally understand the devs intention to show the player base 1. that their stuff didn’t vanish into thin air and 2. that not only chinese players took their stuff (this is what Joel said to me on a dev stream).

Now however, we got rid of most exploits and the EA period is over. So I feel it is really urgent that we get rid of the event log naming players to finally create the CE survival and PvP experience that was intended. After all the event log is like keeping debugging prints when writing a python script. At some point you feel that the code is ready and you want to take them out.

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I agree with most of what you say here, about the EA times of Conan. No event log
the game was actually fun talking to people, watching them, wandering around and paying attention to every single detail so you knew that “whats-what” and the "whos- whos"of the server. It was epic, it was a lot more fun. Now, you just click a button
aaaand oh? You attacked me! To WAR!

Sorry @Keithoras I 100% disagree with every argument your using here. The event log sure does turn the game into a carebear state. There is no rules about needing to engage in war, or clan battles or anything like that. The motto is Build, Survive, Dominate. It makes no mention of “clan wars”. Those can happen as a result, but wouldn’t two powerful clans know better then to risk their stuff over a war for no reason? You think that small clans or solo people will have a hard time? Wrong, this makes it easier. They can simply deny the attacks, since there is no proof, and their bases still need to remain small and hidden (nothing changed there) If larger clans don’t believe solo players about whether or not they commited the attack, they just wipe him out. Well, they can wipe him out if they seen in the log that he did do the attack, or if there is no log, they can wipe him the same. At least this way, with no log, they have a chance at being anonymous.

Bring back the old Conan!

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