Funcom apparently doesn’t understand that the players have at least been its customers

Conan Exiles General Discussion Feedback
149

if a “friend” used hacks, how i am supposed to know it?
i only ask you that you see it from my perspective.

it is impossible to be omniscient and know what all my clan is doing 24/7.
i don’t even know if he was hacking or not, so if they gave me the chance i would kick him asap.
but the ban didn’t gave me any chance to do… anything.

my point is that they don’t give me the chance to defend myself or the rest of my clan who recieved a ban because one of our members was accused of hacking and as you may know, accusations happens all the time, how i can know if what they are saying is true?
another thing, if i wanted to break the rules, i would have done since the start, from all the knowed exploits and more, and then the ban would have been 100 % deserved, but it wasnt.

i mean the same argumment i could use here, i cannot really control what my clan is doing other than KNOW if they are breaking the rules as if we are robots who can see everything.

As for the construction issue, i think that the best solution is to add a limit per clan ingame.
so if you have certain amount of building you cannot build more.
Now, another discussion would be if certain big building such as vaults count the same as a “foundation”.

i propose that the limit is per foundations, is for example, you have a vault, and that occupies almost 7 foundations wide, then the vault counts for 7 (just a random idea)

Same with cellings, walls, ect, it would take a good thinking of the limit system, but i think it can work.
the only thing would be to keep an eye to using secondary accounts/clans to abuse this limit system
but is far better than nothing.

150

Yes, but if you want to find out about exploits, you should go there. And since ToS affects all servers, it is for PvP servers that some rules especially need clarification.

You can’t break rules that don’t exist. There is only the spirit of the rules

This is just an unreasonable attack based on emotions.

It’s a joke? They just gave the merchers another way to get rid of the clans that hunt them. After all, to report, you need to find. How many people walk behind a green wall, for example? But large databases are visible to everyone. And if you don’t cheat, you must have a large base to protect yourself on the PVP server. So those who play fair are now more likely to get banned than mergers. Is it really that hard to understand?

Only beginners don’t know bugs. Not because they are honest, but because they still have little experience and have not been attacked by meshers 7 times a week. Everyone meets with cheaters sooner or later.

And by the way, about fair play. I recently saw a thread here that described an explicit exploit. The topic has 591 views, it hung for 8 days. I reported it as soon as I saw it, and after about 1 day funcom closed it. As I understand it, most of those who read an explicit cheat, honor prevented them from reporting this bug.

151

Hey! You keep that goalpoast where it is!

Glitches are different from bugs. Back in the day there was a glitch with a chair where you could get unlimited X by putting it under Y. At the time I discovered it, I told my clanmate, because we were about to be attacked, and all around our base there were chairs under Y for an umlimited X attack.

I still regret that slip. He still hounds me on my ethics to this day, despite the fact that it helped us.

We can choose to propagate these things, or we can fight them.

152

he doesn’t know because he probably doesn’t know what happens in pvp.
i know probably most of the glitches/bugs of the game, basically because you need to be prepared to play against people who break the rules.because it will happen.

i have meet some of the bigger exploiters that conan has to offer.
all the things you could imagine, these people would do it, undermesh, flying base, infinite bubble, duping, green wall, porking thralls, teleporting with loot… ect, ect, ect, i could go all day.

but knowing all that doesn’t mean that i want to play like that because its BORING.
in fact, i like playing agaisnt these people and win anyways. simply because they suck.

knowing exploits doesn’t make you a cheater, its make you a better player.

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153

I also once reported bugs / glinches (I don’t see much difference).
But what does this have to do with it? I’m talking about the fact that everyone who plays on the PVP server will meet and recognize them sooner or later. If you claim that you do not know them, then you either have little experience, or you are simply lying, trying to appear honest.

154

I kind of earlier said I’m usually the guy on the server who knows the things when they appear. I also said I won’t share my discoveries because that is bad. Knowing the exploits makes it safer for you, yes.

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155

If you guys spent as much effort on reading what other people say as you do on justifying cheating, then perhaps it would be easier to take you seriously.

And by the way, since you insist on your supercilious pretense, it’s not really that hard to understand what you’re saying. I don’t need to play PVP or know how to use glitches and exploits to understand that you claim that being banned for claim spam and stacking will supposedly leave you no other choice except to use exploits in order to stay competitive on official PVP servers.

There’s always a choice, though. You can pretend your hands are tied, you can pretend that it’s justified to cheat, but that’s all it is – pretense.

There’s a clear difference between:

and

No amount of “you don’t know what you’re talking about because you don’t play PVP” will erase that difference.

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156

Acting like cheating or spamming is required to be competitive in PVP is complete and utter nonsense.

Cheating by nature is going outside the defined rules of the competition. You are playing a different game when you cheat. The only people who conflate cheating with competitiveness are those interested solely in the outcomes of competition rather than the joy of the competition itself. You aren’t competitive when you cheat, you are greedy.

Trying to have reasonable discussion with people who freely admit they are willing to cheat, seems like a waste of time to me.

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157

The real waste of time is talking to people who need to explain what an oxymoron is.

158

You know, the more I read of this topic the more confused I become. I may be misunderstanding, but it seems like there are a large proportion of PVP players who want/need to build impregnable bases - I know foundation stacking has been stated as an exploit, and extending from the ‘spirit’ of that, it seems likely that Funcom’s intent is that players should build ‘normal’ bases, and then fight to defend them. But it appears that many players would rather not fight to defend what they already possess, and instead want to build in such a way that they are immune to attack. (With land-claim being just the latest element of that arsenal to be cracked down on.)

But doesn’t that rather defeat the point of PVP? I can entirely understand wanting to not lose what you have built - it’s one of the key reasons I don’t play PVP - but surely having that risk is entirely a part of the point? Why then would these players want to play on PVP servers (and not simply transfer to PVE or PVE-C - depending on whether they still enjoy getting in fights with players when they’re out in the world)? The only thing I can come up with is a possible mentality of wanting to be able to raid others, but not be able to be raided themselves. And I’m not convinced that can entirely be counted as PVP, at least not from any position of competitiveness or balance.

Like I say, I’m confused. I mean, is there another reason that players would want to make their base impregnable ‘by any means necessary’ (even if it means using techniques explicitly banned by the rules - even if not previously enforced as strongly)? I can entirely understand wanting to make a base strong - as strong as possible within the rules - but surely ‘within the rules’ is essential for actual competition. And without actual competition, what is the point of PVP?

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159

Unfortunately offline raiding is the meta. It’s the lowest risk/highest reward option. “Unraidable” bases have nearly alway been the meta with lots of variations over the years. As FC has eliminated some of the methods used over time the options available have become less varied. Spam and out of map bases are probably the most prevalent right now.

Most players just don’t want to log into to all their stuff being gone without even having had a chance to defend it. That’s why, I think, they have been so vocal with the rule “change” and increased moderation. It’s also why they are so likely to rule break - FCs previous lack of moderation led to this culture.

I suspect the meta will overtime shift to how solo/duo players have had to play the game. Hidden and diversified so when they inevitably get raided they can raid back for their things and then some.

As to why they don’t leave I can only speak for myself. CE PVP when done right is amazing. A fresh server where people have enough to fight with, but not enough to be scared to lose it is some of the best experiences the game has to offer IMO. As servers settle and power consolidates there is less and less PVP because it becomes an unwinnable endeavor in a lot of cases. Mostly because accrued resources is stronger than individual skill, again IMO.

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160

Ah - that helps clarify, thank you. Yeah, if you have to defend against the potential to just be wiped out when you’re not even playing, that’s going to change the equation. So it sounds like the offline raiding is actually the bigger problem? Or have they developed hand in hand to the point that bases can now only be raided while the owners are offline? I can see how the previous lack of enforcement can build that response - I guess I’d rather see a response of ‘good the rules are now going to be enforced’ than ‘I’ll just have to start cheating’ but faced with opposing cheaters (and the offline problem) I can see how people could feel backed into a corner - and it’s human nature to dislike change, especially if we perceive a disadvantage to ourselves (or those we identify with). And I guess it’s probably also good to remember that threats and posturing are common primate behaviours, especially when feeling threatened - and we humans often do that with words, so someone threatening to cheat may not actually intend to do it, so much as want to make their feelings known.

Your ‘idealised’ version of PVP actually does sound quite cool - even to a non-PVPer like me. A more even playing field, and the ‘hidden and diversified’ elements I can see being more fun :slight_smile:

That I think I can confirm, at least from my own anecdotal experience. As a simple example: I’ve played multiple characters, and rarely go for much of the same build twice - so I’ve played the PVE content on EL with characters whose strength varied from 0-50, and with a wide range of different weapons. Sure, the perks make a bit of a difference at certain stages, but the biggest difference by far comes from the weapons themselves, and most especially the weapon tiers. It often feels like the equipment, at the end of the day, contributes more than the character themselves. And, I’d imagine, that translates across to PVP as an increasingly wide gap, which would require an even greater skill divide to overcome.

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161

When does “within the rules” end? Nobody knows that. And how can you build the most secure base within the the rules, when you do not know where the border is.

This is the same if you are given the opportunity to level up endlessly, but if you level up too much, you will be banned. Is this adequate? According to the regulars of the forum - yes.

162

@Morlang
I am pretty sure you know what spamming is, and know it is now a bannable offense. The size of your base does not get you banned, the spamming foundations all over gets you banned.

I completely understand your frustration with PVP and the cheaters. I played PVP for 6 months and gave up.
I also understand that you think there is no clear definition of the rules, and FC has been very lax in enforcing them for undermeshers and exploiters in general. I would agree with you on that point.

The people you call “fanboys” are not trying to put up a wall to protect Funcom. We see the changing / new enforcement of the rules as a good thing, and just want the game to be better for everyone.

You seem a reasonable person, you have not gone off the deep end while discussing this, even though I did try to trigger you a bit. . .lol.

I would just say, play the game to the best of your ability, do not cheat, and hope that more clarification comes soon about the rules.

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163

No, it doesn´t make you a better player. You just learn to deal/cope with people doing it to be able to survive.

The truth is that Conan Exiles Pvp is all about exploiting and bugusing the system one way or another. Sometimes unwillingly because you don´t recognize i´ts a bug or exploit because there are so many. But often times it doesn´t really matter in the end. The only people that don´t know about all of that are the ones that are new. But as soon as they understand how Conan Pvp really works after getting raided to the ground 4 times in their first week, they start thinking, learning and adapting. Its often times the only viable option if you wanna survive on a heavy visited pvp server. Some people may enjoy abusing the system, but mostly people are pragmatic, just doing it to avoid getting permanently raided. Everybody who says otherwise is lying.

The point that pve players will never understand is, that Pvp in Conan Exiles as it is right now, not designed for having fair and fun fights like its aiming for. Its about hunting and humiliate week players, doing max destruction to buildings and getting as much loot and thralls as you can. And once again, who is denying that, is lying. Plain and simple. 90% of the time people are joining pvp servers for the destruction and the loottaking. And they doen´t care how you as person feel about getting raided every day as a newbie or casual player, leaving you with an hughly destroyed and empty base, because they want to feel the power they feel they have after raiding someone elses base to the ground. You can argue if this is a bad thing or not but in the end it is what is. The humans natural urge to destroy. And it really shines bright in Conan Exiles.

There are only a handfull of people that do pvp just for the actual fighting, but this people mostly play on special private pvp servers with their own settings that fitts this needs. Its a small portion of the actual pvp player base in Conan. And no, I am not talking about pve-c. Raiding is still a hugh part of this servers, but the focus lies on the actuall fighting.

If we are talking about bugabuse or exploits we don´t only talk about stacking building pieces or using slope roofs, building in trebs, vaulting underwater, using macros, overpowered meta weapons and stuff like that. It starts with little things like using bugs (something is giving too much xp that is actually not supposed to) to powerlevel your character to max in an hour or two, giving clanmates teleports to obelisks they didn´t discover yet and the like.

I can still remember the time when thralls had a bug and could endlessly carry stuff in their inventory. And I still hear people saying:“oh we would never use that. We didn´t even know about that”. And we saw the same people using it before confronting them. Every day more and more people did it until the whole server did it, because people couldn´t keep up building their bases with the ones who did it. The same goes for bodyvaulting using a specific weapon because its damage got off after an update. None of this stuff was supposed to happen but it did and got heavenly abused. Would have Funcom even fixed half of it over the years, we wouldn´t be in the situation we are in now. Pvp wouldn´t have become that mess it is today. It didn´t had to become one but it did because it got negleted. And yes, I am aware, you can´t prevent bug or exploit using of any game but it is a big differents if only a handfull off people is using it or the whole server is becoming a big and massive abuse system. Because it piles up to the point, where it gets very unhealthy for your community and the game in general.

After years of not doing anything about a broken pvp system that evolved and exists around all that bugs and exploits there are, Funcom now suddenly expect people to follow rules. Rules that not even clearly stated in a way they need to be for pvp. They are resonable for pvp-c and pve players because they make sense to them and are easy to follow. But they make no sense for pvp at all, because people do not know how to cope with the broken mechanics under this new rules. The whole pvp system is broken to the bones. And before this broken system is not getting a lot of love and fixes, people will keep abusing it to the max and find more new ways to ship around the stones Funcom throws into the water right now. Because they need to if they wanna continue playing pvp. Funcoms rules do not fix the situation for pvp players, it makes them worse. I understand the intention behind it but rules alone do not work. A car doesn´t get fixed just because you wash it from the outside. It looks clean, but still doesn´t run.

Ofc people officially always say:I don´t do it, but we all know by now reality in conan is a lot different. And nobody in his right mind would officially admit that he is doing it. Why should he? To fear to get punished for something everbody is doing in the backyard without getting caught?

And no, I am generally not against some ground rules. But I am against using rules to cover up a completly broken system. Because it will not fix it.

Ps: think about it. The abuse it so strong now that even the rules get abused to get rid of competetors or unwanted people. This is madness and for sure not healthy for the remaining pvp crowd. And yes, I get that pve players might not understand what I am talking about and therefore always thinkt that posts like mine are way over the top. But I can assure you, they are not. Play pvp every day for the next 6 month and then we are talking back and then you can tell me how fun and relaxing it has been for you, dealing with all that bugs and exploits you will not have to deal with if you play pve or pve-c. And no, I do not only see only pvp as a focus piece, even though I am mostly a pvp player. I also do enjoy pvp-c and pve inbetween and they are equally important to me since building and crafting is what I love most in Conan. But what I see is the hugh unhealthy gap between the different playstyles and that the focus is shifting more and more torwards pve because the pve crowd (no offense) is easier to please. Give a pve player a new building dlc and he is happy building a new castle for the next 6 month. Way more forgiving and understanding community. I think most people do not realise that pvp players do not have that luxary. The fixes that are urgently needed can not be weed out with a new dlc. They relay on that fixes because without them they have a misserable and abusive gameplay experience.

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164

This

Just note that solo players are not weak.

Survival mechanics, in this game, are good. Build mechanics are good. Dominating is mistaken as eliminating.

165

It’s so weird to see pvpers and pveers constantly throwing the other side under the bus and blame them for ever problem they perceive the game as having.

PvPers ask for balance changes that some PvE players don’t agree with, the typical response they get when they object is “you don’t understand because you don’t play pvp!” These balance changes are often even resisted when a huge outlier is pointed out

PvE players ask for bug fixed, and then get told that those bugs are necessary because pvp players are relying on them. They need them because how can they protect their base from hours of attack without being online.

Every one else is cheating so they have to cheat as well, at least that’s a fairly common refrain I see given as the reason cheating is ok.

“Everybody” speeds won’t get you out of a speeding ticket if you’re pulled over for speeding, even if there is a kernel of truth, most people do speed at least occasionally

I do think a lot of PvE players know exactly what official PvP servers are like, and I bet it’s a large part of the reason they choose not to play official PvP and would rather PvE(C) to avoid the toxicity and the feeling that they have to exploit to have any kind of chance of success

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166

PVP on Officials is exhausting. I played PVP for six months in EA. The constant having to monitor your base, the offline raiding, the toxicity, all combine to just make it more like work and not fun at all.
I would never go back to that environment.

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167

I’d rather chew on crushed glass and rinse it down with some battery acid before I play on an official pvp server.

Its not enjoyable or fun at all. Granted my personality type also is not fond of constantly being aggressive and attacking… I am a builder and I enjoy building things. You can’t have both builders and lots of pvp on the same server. Never really could I have found in any game.

The pvp not being fun is amped by the toxicity of its player base. This same thing is found in any game that features pvp and why I avoid the pvp servers in general. New World, for example, is a shining example to why I dont enjoy pvp games. Not because the concept of pvp is bad to me… but the playerbase that it attracts is usually the opposite of what I want to spend free time among.

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168

I suspect this is just a vocal group. Idk if I’d go so far as to call them a minority, but they don’t represent the majority of official PVP players in my experience. There are plenty of PVP players that keep it above board, I hate to see those good ladies and gentlemen get lumped in with those willfully breaking the rules.

Is there cheating? Yes. Do you have to cheat to be competitive? No. Do you have to cheat to beat cheaters? Depends on your skill level and how patient you are with Zendesk. If you take the law into your own hands to handle cheats with cheats you should be big enough to take your licks should you get caught.

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