Heavy Armor needs buffs

Conan Exiles General Discussion
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Hey, before I start, I should probably say that I play on a PvP server on PS4. So when I say things, I’m referring to this console and game mode.

So I’m relatively new, but I’ve studied up and like to think I know what I’m talking about due to my experience with other survival games and a variety of different kinds of fighting games.

I’ve read about how heavy armor used to be OP because of silent legion but then got nerfed into the ground, so I understand we’re kind of in that post-nerf limbo where the item is still weak while the devs gather data. But I think it’s been long enough and we should realize that heavy armor is absolute garbage in PvP and even sub-optimal in PvE from what I’ve seen.

I’ll start by talking about the dodge. Heavy armor has a garbage dodge unless you feel like wasting 40 points in agility. This is OK to me, because it’s still possible to dodge many types of attacks if you’re skilled with the dodge, but not everything. This is good. Heavy armor gives more armor so it’s a tradeoff. HOWEVER the reason this dodge is absolute trash is because of how slow it is on top of the range. If someone is locked onto you and you dodge an attack, they can literally just combo it and catch you with the second hit because of how long this short little sidestep takes to complete. It takes skill to dodge with this, and you can’t dodge out of attack range, so It needs to be sped up VERY slightly just so there’s a point in sidestepping attacks with it.

Next. The actual armor reduction. This is where I think it’s a little unfair. Reductions for epic armor sets are as follows:

Light-50%
Medium-65%
Heavy-75%

Medium’s dodge is sooo much better, but heavy hardly gets any armor to make up for it. 10% isn’t enough to make up for getting hit like 50% more. Either make heavy 80% or make medium 60%.

Continuing with the armor %, let’s talk about the helmet/weight BS. For those of you who are unaware of what I mean by this, I’m talking about the fact that if you have light armor, you can wear a medium helmet and still have a light roll, giving you a few more % dmg reduction. I think this works for medium/ heavy helmet as well, but correct me if I’m wrong because I’m unsure of this. Frankly, this is dumb. This clearly is a mechanic putting heavy armor at even more of a disadvantage because there is nothing above heavy so they can’t get more armor on a helmet. This also makes light helmets useless because you can just wear medium helmets. This is the one thing that absolutely needs to be changed, mostly because 1/3 of the helmets are useless but also partially because of the light armor meta.

Still on the actual armor, let’s talk about legendaries. Heavy legendaries are absolute garbage. Light and medium get helmets/chests that give strength, but all heavy gets is encumbrance and other useless stats on legendaries. It’s just really dumb, especially considering I love making unique builds with legendaries.

To sum everything up, the disadvantages of wearing heavy armor greatly outweigh the advantages. You sacrifice climbing ability, dodging, and overall weight for a measly 10% armor over medium armor. You also sacrifice the ability to have combat legendaries. While I don’t thing we should make them the meta, we need to at least put them in line with the other armors so liking a heavy play style isn’t just nerfing yourself.

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I disagree…
In my opinion the damage reduction seems more balanced now that it was before, every percentage getting closer to 100% is incremental, meaning that a few % more to a high value counts a lot more than the same to a low value and if you look at it there’s a 15% increase between light and medium, and 10% increase between medium and heavy.
You look at it just from a pvp perspective which isn’t fair, armors also have to be balanced for other scenarios fx putting it on a thrall, right now a T4 thrall with heavy epic flawless armor and a good weapon is an almost unstoppable tank that can easily take out bosses without your help.

I believe that armor should be a part of your strategy in fights and not an overwhelming factor that reduce skill and speed to something secondary, I actually wouldn’t mind if armors were reduced a bit more :slight_smile:

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The lack of evasion using heavy makes it far too risky to use.

Helmets are basically worthless on both thralls and players because any pvper worth their salt brings gas to a fight where if you’re caught without a mask you’ll regret it every time.

Personally i hate that the games fantastic combat system is dominated by light armour spear wielders for two reasons - mobility + reach. Nothing else can compare. Light armour lets you dodge, spear has insane reach. IMO if they moved the first spear attack to the second it would potentially fix this, as the dodge thrust, dodge thrust gameplay is what makes spears so effective. A sweep/thrust would make it a very different situation.

If heavy armour had a means of reducing/negating stunlocks, then it’d be more viable. If shields were more effective at stopping stunlocks agaisnt multiple opponents, they’d also be more viable - perhaps micro-staggering the attacker on a successful block so a proper counter is viable.

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the best weapons offers up to 20% armor penetration making your heavy armor as resistant t9o blows as medium…

blade of seven 100% penetration and 20 something dmg not including dmg boost
kingslayer dagger 35 dmg 20%
ajas bane 51 dmg 23.6%
black ice javg if not thrown 51 dmg 24.75% thatr you can wear with an acheronian shiled for an addition 15% armor pen.

take all those add the bonuses and reduce your armor rating protection. makes your heavy armor pretty crappy and you cant dodge any attack from the above mentionned weapon sicne your back step is still in reach

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What I was opposing to is that increasing the armor value won’t solve anything in a pvp fight, a light armor and spear/poisoned daggers combination will always outperform any player in heavy armor.
I currently play on a private server that has AOC mod and there you have a top tier modded armor that can reach 80% damage reduction, it still won’t do you much good in a pvp fight, but it is so insanely OP against npc’s/bosses or on a T4 fighter thrall with legendary weapon.

What Ceronesthes suggest by giving it some resistance to stunlocking and/or perhaps also a chance to ignore bleed/poison would make it more useful, but I don’t ever expect it to be useful in a pvp fight unless roll/dodge is nerfed while fx holding a spear, if certain weapons reduced your ability to dodge and roll then maybe light armor and spears wouldn’t be such a powerful combination in pvp fight.

There might never be a perfect solution for using heavy armor in pvp fight but raising the armor value is definitely not the answer :slight_smile:

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I played so many games and I think one thing: the meta in a “competitive” game, like in pvp, will be always dominated by the best equipment.

The only way to avoid this if A is better than B it’s not making B equal than A, if A and B offers two different mechanics it’s not possible at all. T

he solution is to have a game system where A defeat B but B defeat C who defeat A.

So using A, B or C is a question about what do you think your opponent will use.

The problem in CE is the game have to be balanced for PvP but also for PvE.

In PvE spears sucks, because the reach of a spear is too limited to avoid being hit by big bosses and it already deals too few damages.

Obviously in a human vs human fight the reach of a spear is op instead.

For similar reasons heavy armor could be weak in PvP, but it’s already op in PvE on a thrall.

The solution if you want a balanced meta it’s not unbalancing the armors, but adding to the game environment factors making one choice or the other a winning condition during a fight.

For example don’t allow to dodge (or take damage when you do) if you hit an obstacle while doing it, so the terrain where the fight happens will be the factor for making wearing an heavy instead of a medium armor a winning condition (open spaces medium wins, closed space heavy wins).

Another suggestion: don’t allow reach weapons to hit too close enemies: in the real life a spear or a 2h weapon have this problem: if the opponent is just in front of you you have not the space to use your big weapon, the problem here is you can hit a foe with a spear even if your target is adiacent to you.

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Dont forget most people use light armor because of the super jump/swim very handy when you chase and the roll that are way better than wearing medium.

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in pve nothing is hard, i speak of experience and from my recent findings… achieving immortality ( exept to lava thirst hunger and falling to your death) is an easy step.
i am using medium armor with a t4 bearer that alone takes on red mother undead dragon and white tiger and does not die…

also, giving a dimishing return on stunlock would be the best because its impossible to get out of stunlock in any armor type or to increase the step back movement for heavy armor

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in pve spear = immortality if you know how to use it and when to use it.
venom infused daggers + blade of the adventurer// pteor 2 handed sword// star metal 2 handed sword

depending on your build. most build are gear dependant. i wont go in a fight with the wrong gears if i lose t4 vit or too much encumbrance and end up slowed down due to overweight.both would mean death

in the real world, where you train in martial arts you learn to adjust your stance and how you wield your weapons with the environment.

mixing irl combat with something that is based on fantasies is not going to give good results or will get the cry babies to complain even more. because it will be A- too hard for their diapers or B- too complexe for their pebble counting toys

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After looking through this I’ve decided that the best course of action for heavy is probably some sort of stun lock protection. While I still think medium should be nerfed by 5% reduction, increasing heavy probably won’t do much.

I will say that I have a viable duel strat that requires heavy armor and katana, but outside of duel, heavy is garbage.

The poise idea was good. Maybe make it so light has hardly any stunlock protection and medium has a little and heavy has a decent amount? Idk

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Grow up and stop being a keyboard warrior.

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gRoW somE bALL ANd pvP

You’re a spear/light armor meta slave, so maybe it’s “ball” for you, but for the rest of us it’s “balls” as in two. Care to tell us your view on heavy armor?

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Born2bAlive

Good read, and agree.

As allways someone will loose, and that someone will alllways complayn that his preferred spec isnt the best, so the guy is really a lobbyist:)

In most games where pvp is an issue items allways gets all attention, why? because they win fights and gets players some sort of intention to get the wery best stuff.
This again drives the game forward in developement and all are happy, for a while:)

New items in uc gave me weeks of fun, and also you do not know what you will meet in pvp, wich makes it fun.
Some fights are important, others not so much, i dont see a problem here, just opinions of fun:)

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Oh yes, that is a BRILLIANT idea! Give top tier thralls that will literally 4-5 shot players while themselves take 80+ hits, stunlock protection. Absolutely brilliant idea. All because what, they underperform on players? Well they certainly over perform on thralls and we don’t need that to be any stronger.

Heavy armor will always be able to trade with medium and light and come out on top, even in its current state. The real issue is it’s not enough of a positive trade for its lack of evasion.

The solution isn’t in buffing heavy armor, but in nerfing the other two. Like many of you said, the dodge roll and spear combination with 50% damage reduction is what makes light armor the meta. Nerf the amount of reduction and the invincibility frames of the roll. Medium isn’t the meta, but because of it’s superior evasion to heavy, it needs slightly less reduction.

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Definitely am sick of people running around with Captains that have sword of crom and silent legion. I don’t even bother fighting them if they have it even if I know they’re garbage at pvp

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I agree,
Heavy Armor is Garbage. for PvP, and PvE.
90% of PvPers are in light armor because the dodge is superior.
10% of PvPers are in Med armor
If you are in Heavy, and you will lose.
The Damage output is insane for how little Defense is effective.
Even in PvE, If youre in Heavy, you dont understand that Thralls and Pets will tank for you. and there is no reason to be personally tanking NPCs/Mobs.
Stagger, and stuns, and dodges will make it so you take no damage from any creature.

Heavy Armor in this game has no purpose, being slow you die, being hit you die, the only reason Heavy Armor is used, is, Thralls. they use it. no one else does.
And Shield is garbage. unless youre blocking arrows. which than it is OP. way to OP.

Heavy Armor needs to be adjusted. to have a purpose.

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You don’t need it.

Imho in PVE there are 3 kinds of challenging fights:

1- Bosses you can block with shield: you can be naked without heals at all but with a shield and a good 1h sword ( after few testing predatory blade + penetration armor kit is the best regardless avoiding heavy attacks ) if you have good timing you can’t lose this kind of fights. And the predatory blade in light combo deals more dmg than a spear in a heavy combo.

2- Bosses you can’t block: you can use differents tactics, but the fact is the easier way is to have a thrall as a tank. Best dps setting for me is using venom daggers + 2h greatsword so this way it’s just making things as faster as possible.

3- swarm of enemies: they could be easy managed with a katana, I prefere it over spears because the spear has a drawback, when you manage to do a combo you reduce the distance between you and the target, and if you have to just deal 1 hit + dodge or pass back, well katana with its heavy attack deals area dmg.

Using this 3 tactics I rarely take serious wounds at all. (or at least, I take them when I fail timing or the game just have lag or desync).

I use the spear only in pve not-challenging fights just because I love it (it’s the only weapon hitting precisely where I’m aiming) and in pvp time against players (I play pve-c). In any other situation it’is not imho the best (or just the faster) way to win, in PvE.

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Shields aren’t invincible, they can break or be outflanked by more than one opponent or possibly someone in light armor. Leaving them vulnerable to arrows. They would make a lot more sense if they stopped someone attacking long enough to get a hit in when you block their melee attacks. Or maybe hit a key to smash with your shield and stun for 1-2 seconds after a blocked attack.

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Rolling is the single reason armor plays little to no value in CE. No point in discussing damage reduction percentages until light armor will net you a 100% damage reduction 95% of the time.

IMO “heavy armor dodge” should be baseline for all armor types and “light armor rolling” should be a lvl 50 Grit perk like double jump is lvl 50 Agility perk.

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Roll with every armor just change distance of roll game fix make hvy armor great again

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