If i had to design "Down But Not Out" system

[WildCat]

… i would do it this way:

• Thrall would go down on the ground not just kneel as if they need to catch a breath
• Reviving would require some kind of healing item: either bandage or an aloe potion
• The revived thrall would get only as much health as the healing item used in the process provides
• The revived thrall must be fully healed before they can go down again, otherwise they are killed but no cooldown or strikes or anything

If a thrall died but the player it was following is a sorcerer and has their arcane staff with them then player can still save the dead thrall:

• First, player needs to use their arcane staff to capture the dead thralls soul before it escapes
• Thrall’s soul is added to player’s inventory as an item
• Player has to go and find a thrall of the same gender and same or higher tier, knock them out and bring them to sacrificial stones
• At the sacrificial stones player can use the soul of their dead thrall and the body of a captured thrall to bring their dead thrall back to life

I mean i’m happy we now can save our companions but this looks so stupid the way it was done: thrall just gets down on one knee as if to catch a breath and all you do to a mortally wounded guy is just yell at them and they magically get up with 50% health and can do so three times in a row…

[sestus2009]

Not much on the Sorcery and have not have not had a chance to see a Thrall get hurt yet but that makes sense. Didn’t know they take a knee now.

[Oduda]

@sestus2009

Didn’t know they take a knee now.

Must have been one of those infamous arrows.

[Rekt]

I think that the system as it is now is sort of a prototype. I think funcom is testing the waters to see how positively this change is received before spending more time and effort on it to make it look/feel good and/or realistic.

I like the change as it is for now. Is it funny to run to to a thrall, give a little “oorah” and watch them get back up? Absolutely hilarious to me. Do I think it’ll stay this way? Probably not. If the change is well received, then I think Funcom will polish it up a bit. If the general consensus is that it’s another change that no one asked for, then I think they’ll remove it and end the experiment.

[Oduda]

@Rekt

If the general consensus is that it’s another change that no one asked for, then I think they’ll remove it and end the experiment.

I do not believe that this will be the case. They have actually put to much effort into this system already prior to this update. All of the changes to both pets and thralls for some time now have been leading up to this new system, though as I had asked in a previous post I had made about these changes, why they did not wait to make one big overhaul instead of nerfing pets / thralls to the point where they were dying off en mass and THEN giving us the ability to “get them back up”. That point aside, I have a feeling this DBNO system is going to be here for a while, if not for good.

@Rekt

before spending more time and effort on it to make it look/feel good and/or realistic.

I have not tested this new system out yet myself, but I do hope that this is the case. Improvements are always good (just not the sort of “improvements” that they made for stack splitting, or inventory management, or even the dye bench ffs).

[Rekt]

@Oduda

why they did not wait to make one big overhaul instead of nerfing pets / thralls to the point where they were dying off en mass and THEN giving us the ability to “get them back up”.

Could be considered another factor of “QA Testing” or something similar. If the thralls were weakened, but the gameplay remained the same, then it was simply a case of thralls were brought to reasonable levels and no further changes were needed to keep them relevant. DBNO being introduced shows that, as you said, thralls were dying en mass and that something needed to be done. I’m not speaking for certain, of course. Just putting my thoughts and conjecture out there

@Oduda

stack splitting, or inventory management, or even the dye bench ffs

These are the changes that no one asked for, and I hate. every. single. one. of. them.

[CodeMage]

@Rekt

If the general consensus is that it’s another change that no one asked for, then I think they’ll remove it and end the experiment.

I don’t remember them doing that ever.

Okay, maybe the stack split, but I can’t remember anything else. The closest they came to it, apart from the stack split thing, was when they introduced the momentum-based movement and everyone yelled at them because our characters suddenly started handling like vehicles (or horses) in Rockstar games. Even then they didn’t actually remove the system, because they needed it for upcoming features, but simply dialed down its parameters to where it felt almost like the old system

@Oduda

All of the changes to both pets and thralls for some time now have been leading up to this new system, though as I had asked in a previous post I had made about these changes, why they did not wait to make one big overhaul instead of nerfing pets / thralls to the point where they were dying off en mass and THEN giving us the ability to “get them back up”.

No offense intended, but I think you’re putting too much faith in the existence of some overarching vision. Looking back at all of the changes, I find it much easier to explain them all as reactive, rather than proactive.

[Oduda]

@Rekt

These are the changes that no one asked for, and I hate. every. single. one. of. them.

You and me both!!! One of the main reasons I have only logged in for Chapter 4 twice. That’s it. 2 times this entire chapter!

@Rekt

If the thralls were weakened, but the gameplay remained the same, then it was simply a case of thralls were brought to reasonable levels and no further changes were needed to keep them relevant.

I can understand why you would think this, but they had been planning this DBNO system for a while. The changes to followers in Chapter 3 was put into place in preparation for it. The reduction of bearer hp was also a predetermined change put into place because of it. I am fairly certain that the “promised” pet revamp has been put on the back burner because they wanted to wait to see how they would be after this was implemented (new flash, pets still suck).

[Oduda]

@CodeMage

No offense intended, but I think you’re putting too much faith in the existence of some overarching vision. Looking back at all of the changes, I find it much easier to explain them all as reactive, rather than proactive.

Maybe, but I started this thread back on April 14th about the recent pet and thrall nerfs and the very first post was about DBNO. These were the literal first words in reply to my post.

DBNO sounds like a great feature,

So yeah, months ago this system was already known about in detail. Funcom therefor had clearly been working on this for quite a while prior to that. Thus I do not feel that it is too far fetched to think that many of the more recent chances (and in pets lack of changes) are specifically due to this system.

[Rekt]

@Oduda

new flash, pets still suck

Which makes me sad. I want to ride into battle flanked by dire wolves and not have them immediately roll over and die.

@CodeMage

I don’t remember them doing that ever.

I don’t either, but eh, I try to remain at least a little optimistic. We forum users tend to be a pessimistic lot. I know too that Funcom haven’t done enough to remain in everyone’s good graces, but, I mean, I’m still playing Conan so something is working as intended at least.

@CodeMage

I find it much easier to explain them all as reactive, rather than proactive

Also probably true. Teimos has too much HP? Nerf it (and to be fair, he really did need it). Other thralls have too much HP? Nerf it (debatable). Thralls hitting too hard? Nerf it (also debatable). Everyone’s thralls dying en mass because of all of the nerfs? Introduce something to help (it’s new, so opinions haven’t fully formed yet). DBNO seems pretty good, though. In my current playthrough, it has helped me not lose my thrall to things like staggerlock, knockdown spam, and other mechanics that it finds itself the victim of through bad luck or bad AI. 3 strikes with a 15 minute timer seems pretty good to me too. Not too long as to make it impossible to lose a thrall, not too short as to be impossible to use.

@Oduda

they had been planning this DBNO system for a while.

Was there a news announcement or some patch notes that mentioned this before it was implemented? FTR, I’m not accusing you of anything, just wondering if there was something I missed in the time I was away from Conan.

[Oduda]

@Rekt

Was there a news announcement or some patch notes that mentioned this before it was implemented? FTR, I’m not accusing you of anything, just wondering if there was something I missed in the time I was away from Conan.

I HAVE NO IDEA

The first I ever heard about it was in the thread I linked above, which I made two months ago. Several people were already talking about it in there.

The Down and Not Out feature is interesting, and I would say that it does work as advertised.

This is just an example.

[Rekt]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing that! I suppose I could go read through the past few month dev updates, patch notes, news announcements, and Q&A’s… but I’m not exactly writing a thesis on the DBNO system, so I think I’ll pass lol

[Sera67]

I like new system… only because its saved mine from fall damage several times.
Which would have been nicer fix.

Them taking a knee makes sense, Thou… I got 15+ year in LotrO, and your health bar is a “morale” bar. hitting 0 isn’t death… you just don’t have morale to keep fighting, so you kneel.

Also, you rush over, yell at them to get up… and they do.
Works out really well visually.

Having to using healing item… wouldn’t mind it. But they only heal like 150hp-200hp… not gonna help much. They have a 2nd hp bar that drains when hit…
Watched Rocknose King merc my lv17 to 0 insanely fast and drain grey health bar…
Close one as is…

Stag…Stug? Thag? w/e his name is, basiclly chained her with ground attacks to almost nothing.

Personally, I like the squishy thralls. Been saying that since release of game. I’ve forced myself to use T2 and T3 since t4’s are really over powered for to long.

@WildCat

The revived thrall must be fully healed before they can go down again, otherwise they are killed but no cooldown or strikes or anything

No thanks, the game systems wouldn’t allow this to be fun or fair. getting a thrall fully healed cost a **** ton of healing right now. I got better thing to do then micro manage them even more,

I doubt this would be fun in pvp…

@WildCat

I mean i’m happy we now can save our companions but this looks so stupid the way it was done: thrall just gets down on one knee as if to catch a breath and all you do to a mortally wounded guy is just yell at them and they magically get up with 50% health and can do so three times in a row…

It look fine, Enemy hit them, they dropped, enemy moves on before confirming kill. I yell at them to get up.
It works.
50% is good… If your thrall was dropped already… giving them 10% would just be evil.
And counter would be leaving them in down state…

and counter to counter would be giving them a down timer…

counter to counter would be removing yell and adding a 5mins animation of you helping them up and bandaging them, and carrying them back home so they can rest for 7 in game days?

counter to counter to counter.
They now perma injuries, and lose -50% to stats cause they’ll never fully recover after there 7days!

We can keep going…

Them taking a knee, and getting yelled at works really well gameplay wise. I’ve used feature more on saving them from fall damage then anything… been quick and easy to get back into playing game.

Which is what I really want…

[CodeMage]

@Oduda

Maybe, but I started this thread back on April 14th about the recent pet and thrall nerfs and the very first post was about DBNO.

I missed that one, thanks for the link!

I haven’t read through all of it in detail yet, but it’s clear that they did, in fact, use that system to justify some of the changes to thralls.

@Oduda

Thus I do not feel that it is too far fetched to think that many of the more recent chances (and in pets lack of changes) are specifically due to this system.

No, it’s not too far fetched. I stand corrected.

It still feels very haphazard and like they never finish what they start. Since it’s not purely reactive, like I thought, maybe it’s because they’re understaffed?

Perhaps it’s because I tend to judge them on a much longer time scale. They just can’t seem to settle on one thing and see it through.

@Rekt

We forum users tend to be a pessimistic lot.

Hey, I remember when I was still optimistic. In fact, I was optimistic for years.

@Rekt

DBNO seems pretty good, though.

Oh, yeah, it definitely does. I don’t actually share the opinions from the opening post of this topic. If we’re to have a system like DBNO in the first place, the last thing I need when a follower is getting pulverized by a bunch of enemies is to go perform some cumbersome field medicine on them.

It might be more realistic, but it would make for bad gameplay.

Now the sorcerous revival idea, that one I like a lot!

@Sera67

I like new system… only because its saved mine from fall damage several times.
Which would have been nicer fix.

Bingo! I don’t actually mind followers receiving fall damage, but not when that fall damage is because of the flaws in the AI. If you kick my follower off the cliff while screaming “THIS! IS! SIPTAH!!!”, then it’s okay for it to be hurt from the fall. But if the follower falls down into the Sinkhole after the teleport because the game isn’t coded well enough to prevent that, then fall damage is not okay.

[wolffspider]

@Sera67

I like new system… only because its saved mine from fall damage several times.
Which would have been nicer fix.

Them taking a knee makes sense, Thou… I got 15+ year in LotrO, and your health bar is a “morale” bar. hitting 0 isn’t death… you just don’t have morale to keep fighting, so you kneel.

Also, you rush over, yell at them to get up… and they do.
Works out really well visually.

Exactly!

Also, if the just fell down like any other corpse, you might overlook them being in need.

[Oduda]

@CodeMage

It still feels very haphazard and like they never finish what they start. Since it’s not purely reactive, like I thought, maybe it’s because they’re understaffed?

Perhaps it’s because I tend to judge them on a much longer time scale. They just can’t seem to settle on one thing and see it through.

Oh I can agree on this for sure! That is the thing with Funcom, even from back in the days of Age of Conan. They have great art teams, and they have great ideas (usually), but implementation and follow-through are NOT their strengths.

@CodeMage

Hey, I remember when I was still optimistic. In fact, I was optimistic for years

Glad to see we crushed that out of you. J/K J/K

@wolffspider

Exactly!

Also, if the just fell down like any other corpse, you might overlook them being in need.

That is a fair point, you would need to have some indication that the thrall is in fact “DBNO” and not just another feast for a crow.

[jmk1999]

Nope… your idea sounds too tedious and unforgiving. I get it, there’s some people that like to feel punished, but as others have already stated, the game isn’t on par with what people want. It’s not forgiving due to bugs and poor design. Why should we suffer with added insults to injury? Also, I don’t like to micromanage my thralls either. It’s annoying enough I need to make sure they’re outfitted, eating well, etc. I’m not gonna heal them up with extra materials just to ensure I can keep battling. After all, most of the time they go down, you may not be in a position to even waste time on that as it’s already a dangerous situation.

I’m gonna pass on your idea, man. Sorry.

[Rekt]

Also, new bug with the DBNO feature that I just lost a thrall to: If they die of poison, then they don’t get 3 strikes. They just die

[LostBrythunian]

@Rekt

I think that the system as it is now is sort of a prototype. I think funcom is testing the waters to see how positively this change is received before spending more time and effort on it to make it look/feel good and/or realistic

Or they are doing a rough copy pasta of the rescue pawns system in Dragon’s Dogma.
Following in the proud tradition of adding things to the game that showed up in other popular games for a few minutes.

That said, this one has seen, over the years, many requests for a rescue/ressurect/ect system for property people.

This one rarely uses thralls other than as caddies anymore. And some of the caddies have been nerfed so low that they simply can’t be loot mules in any relevant area anymore. But for those tough enough, it may be useful.

Personally this one prefers the OP’s idea to the current one. However, this one knows that this subsystem as a concept was requested and hopes it makes someone happy. It certainly doesn’t make this one’s game play worse

[mynotaure]

Hello everyone .
Now having a better understanding of Funcom’s practices and their way of working, I agree with the opinion of @CodeMage .
To compensate for or try to minimize the bad decisions concerning the enslaved NPCs (executive and abusive nerve and questionable choices made arbitrarily), they put in place this resurection system.
They did not rework the enslaved NPCs in anticipation of the addition of the resurrection of the slaves , they all simply tried to put a band-aid on the bad decisions made regarding the enslaved NPCs .

FunCom has abituated us with their never -made promise and their words retaining the reworking bde functionality : “We nerve the annihilates of pets in anticipation of a recast of the system”: redesign that never arrived !! .

As we say @CodeMage And as we have noticed , Funcom serves us to the functionality or incomplete addition to us.
I have already said on another thread: they are art of going in all directions to never happen anywhere.
Each update has made Obselete or made an unnecessary previous functionality. The last example and the reminiment (that no one requested) of the inventory.

I am not here to spit my venom on FunCom, I like Conan Exile, this game had a huge potential but it is clear and to note that the bad choices and other dubious decisions my away of Conan Exile.