It’s not a concept/design flaw. All weapons have tiers to them, as do all the faction enemies.
Exiles are the weakest race. Tier 4 is the highest tier. Higher tier, harder knockout resistance. At the same time, since they’re Exile, they have no HP. You bring the lowest tier knockout weapon, you will kill them - as they do not do enough knockout damage to offset the health damage.
I do not get how this is a flaw. True, the Iron one is not available until 30, so until then, you need to find T4s that aren’t weak in health. Perhaps Black Hand. Also, maybe Iron Truncheons should be available at a lower level, but right now, it’s logical.
And thats a design flaw. Thank you for summarizing it.
Low level area → low level truncheon → shouldnt kill low level t4. Its so simple. The game shouldnt be made for lvl60 endcontent players with high-end blunted truncheons. And for sure not the starter area!
The outcome is logical. And thats where the logic stops.
I’m sorry, again, statistics working as intended aren’t a design flaw. I too “thank you” for summarizing my quote. You should’ve read the rest of it.
This game isn’t made for level 60 players. It has nothing to do with “high-end”. Weapons have tiers to them. Factions have tiers to them, and inside of those factions there’s four tiers of enemies.
I will explain this one last time, and if you aren’t convinced… so be it.
Let’s go over some statistics. Wooden Truncheon. 15 knockout damage (light) / 20 knockout damage (heavy). 1 health damage.
Enemy tiers come in four tiers. Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3 and Tier 4 (which is named). They have their own health and knockout pools, higher the tier, higher the stats. This is also affected by what faction they are.
Exiles - Darfari - Black Hand - Lemurian - Dogs of the Desert - so forth. Exiles is at the bottom of the ladder, they are the weakest. You pick a named fighter, a tier 4, they have higher knockout resistance as it’s a tier 4, but since the faction is Exile, they have little health. So low and beyond, they die because your weapon of choice isn’t good enough. It doesn’t have enough knockout damage to break the bar, and the enemy has too little health to survive the AWFUL damage output of a truncheon.
You have the Truncheon at level 10, and the Blunted Javelin at level 21, the Iron Truncheon at level 30, Steel Truncheon at level 50 (everything else is irrelevant and blunted arrows are poop). You are complaining that the game is bugged because you are targetting the bottom of the ladder thralls with bottom of the ladder weapons and killing them… Exiles only have so much stats. Darfari T4s will survive a truncheon. Black Hand T4s will survive a truncheon. You don’t even need to be level 60 to know this or experience this. Also, your first thought as a low level player isn’t to acquire T4s, but they make it perfectly possible if you actually know which faction and enemy tier to attack. Plus, when you get to level 21, you have a much better knockout weapon, so you’re not limited to a wooden truncheon until 30, you’re only limited to what you know, and… that seems to be an issue for some people.
Thanks for summarizing simple maths, which everyone got in your previous post.
BUT: You simple dont get, what a design flaw is.
It just DOESNT matter. This is a starter area, which should be DO-ABLE with STARTER weapons (also include truncheons).
Heck, you can put the white tiger also in the starter area. Would also be a major design flaw, because with starter gear its closely to impossible to kill it.
In the past, there where threads with iron-truncheons. Where the issue, was either it didnt have blunted fitting and/or STR perk1 wasnt active. With lvl10, you dont have access to blunted fitting. But Sinners refuge is kinda in the starter area.
Big question: So starters cannot knock out T4 worker thralls, because this is a great game design? Thats “intended”? Because your “maths” see it “logical”?
Well, tell you what, its probably not intended. Like most design flaws in this game. Or do you honestly think, that it was intended that bearer packs drop 500 alchemist base? No. Its an oversight and never got changed, when the stack-sizes changed.
And this issue has probably the same “roots”. Sth was changed. Be it the truncheon makes more dmg, or you make less concusion or the T4 exiles got their HP reduced.
A White Tiger being inside a starter area would be a design flaw, yes, because it’s significantly stronger than anything else, plus in this what if scenario, it would be outside its original spawn area. This is an enemy that would kick your ■■■, it would be unfair. Starter area should have weak enemies, with weak health (such as Exiles, shocking?). Which are killed with weak weapons.
Starting players cannot knock out certain T4 thralls if the weapon they use is too weak or the stats of the thrall is too weak. This is normal game design.
Bearer packs dropping alchemical base have nothing to do with damage/health values, but I understand if you brought that up to support whatever argument you have.
This seems to be a waste of time, we clearly both have different opinions on what “design flaws” are. So, agree to disagree.
Simple Blunted fitting (the one that would go on a wooden truncheon) is not available until level 26.
what the problem seems to be is that at very low level, when you get the wooden truncheon (Level 10 BTW) that for some reason NPC’s are dying before they get knocked out. TBH, i never really knock anything out until level 30, so i have never tested wooden truncheon and no fitting.
I might log into a new server tonight just to test. Will take me all of 15 minutes oto hit L10, make a truncheon, then see how it works from there.
What I have not seen is what level is the OP? this matter for 2 reassn, can they make a blunted fitting yet, and how much have they put into str. IF they are level 20 and have stacked it all in str, then they are doing 21 damage, and may be too strong to knock out low level. If they have a thrall doing it with a wooden truncheon, then what type and level is the thrall. the thralls base damage may be to hig, thus killing the NPC before it is knocked out. My level 15 Lian can kill most exiles on noob river with its bare hands.
The reason that NPCs are dying before they are knocked out have to do with how much health they have and how much knockout resistance / how high of a knockout bar they have. Factions and enemy tiers are factors that are very important here.
If you’re gonna do some testing, I suggest IQoL. It’s a great mod for knowing values.
T4 thralls within the low lv area are for low lvs to begin with. Otherwise you would not want them in the middle game or futher. The same logic should be applied to each stage of the game. For instance why would you need to knock out t4 thrall from the starter area at lv 30 or 40 of 50? The only sound logical is, for example, with wooden truncheon - 10 hits for T1 thrall (from starter area) , 20 for T2, 30 for T3 and 40 for T4 - number of hits are out of blue. So if it woks not like that then it’s botched and it has to be fixed.
To make on thing clear: I got about 1900 hours in this game, I know how to get Thralls. I just wanted to point out to the devs that AFTER the latest patch the behaviour of the wooden truncheon and / or the low level T4 thralls has changed. If this is a design flaw, a mathematical anomaly or just a bug… I don’t know.
This problem also existed in lower levels, also with less strength (without the perk).
Sometimes I use a Level 0 Exile 1 thrall (that usually dies during that attempt) for help (equipped with the same truncheon). But that does not seem to make a big difference.
We all get that, and most know how the tier system works as far as map location/ race goes. That is not what we are trying to help the OP with. We are trying to identify if the OP has an isolated bug, or an overall bug that has not been noticed, or just ignored because it is not of consequence after you get better truncheons.
You can state the numbers over and over, but logic dictates if at level 10 I can make a wooden truncheon, then that tool should not kill the first thralls i encounter at noob river (the lowest T$'s stat wise in the game) if i am at level 10-20. If i was to have to wait to get a better knock-out tool, then why even give me a useless one? Equals design flaw if that is intended, and bug if not.
Thank you. Yeah, you should not be killing them with a tool that is available. Some numbers were changed, and it may have caused this. I think it happened once before a while back, where you would kill any lower area thralls with any truncheon.
Yeah, but I don’t think they ever intended for level 10 ~ 15 people to be going straight for the highest tier enemies in the noob river, but again, as much as I repeat it, it makes sense if you think about it. You’ll knock out everything but a named thrall at these levels, with a wooden truncheon. Anything higher than III, you will kill, because anything higher will be tougher to knock out with your limited tools, until level 21 which is where you get the blunted javelin.
Based on his response, the OP is level 25, only 10 in STR to get the knock out bonus. So they can’t yet make the simple fitting. Thus, an issue with the last patch,or a bug for them. The wooden truncheon should not kill any thing on noob river. It is the only tool you have to use.
Deirde Deathbringer is a fighter as far as I’m concerned. The initial message was about the issue with T4 fighters within the lowlv area. That they are being killed before knocked out with a wooden truncheon. Was it not?
Yes, it’s only about fighter thralls. There is NO problem with T4 crafter thralls (already got an armorer and a smith). I have not tried a T4 archer thrall yet.
T4 Archers will be the same story. Exile named range from 165 to 195 health. They’ll die to the wooden truncheon.
Also, yes, crafters are easier to knock out. It’s the fighters/archers that have the most, especially named.
But you’re telling me before this patch, T4 named Exiles were able to be knocked out with a truncheon? Are you sure? They’ve always been this weak from what I recall.
Okay, but it still should be viable to knock out a T4 Fighter in noob are with a tool I have available at that level/area. The fact you kill the lowest tiered T4’s with the lowest tool is broken. Again, most people just blur right to 60, so may not notice. But for a brand new player to the game, this would be a negative if i was to review it after my first play thru.
It would read “some recipes you are given access to at early levels are not functional with the early level content they seem to be intended for.”
Side note, if i got wiped, and started over, the first thing i would want to do is start getting any fighters i could. and just because they are low level, they still have a use. They can be meat fodder for setting up kill zones at an FOB.
The only sound logical is, for example, with wooden truncheon - 10 hits for T1 thrall (from starter area) , 20 for T2, 30 for T3 and 40 for T4 - number of hits are out of blue. So if it woks not like that then it’s botched and it has to be fixed.
