Why should you expect them to listen??
If they were listening, why has there been nothing about the changes and the fact that many players are not happy with them.
Not even a simple, âWe understand your concerns, and weâll look into a solution.â
Yeah, thatâs the only conclusion you can make when people cite numbers that donât exist to make their points. They are doing it because they think it makes their position more valid, which is a terrible assumption to make if you want to be taken seriously.
However, I would argue that you can cite existing poll information (as imperfect as that may be) since we need some sort of fact foundation to actually make assumptions based on something empirical. People arguing that the one poll that exists is unrepresentative of actual player sentiment are discrediting this poll in order to level the playing field and pretend there is NO DATA on this. Which simply isnât true. We have an actual poll where actual players voted.
If people REALLY want to get to the truest representation of player opinion, then they have to come up with a methodology or process that will give a more true representation, like a better framed poll to a wider audience or multiple forums for example. But since no one is actually doing that, we can only work with what we know and the feedback that gets cascaded to the official forums, which I would argue is a pretty good and reasonable source to go to see the state of player opinion. Reddit may be another source that rivals the official forums, but players who are actually passionate about the game are going to post here IMHO.
You are 100% correct that it will be impossible to count the opinions of players who donât play anymore or who donât engage with any forums. So that is why I joined recently, to raise my hand and have my voice counted after this patch. Because I do like this game, even though I recognize it needs work.
I understand what you mean, but thatâs like saying peoples opinions donât matter because they didnât voice them, or donât get on the forums. I didnât say it should count in the polls, but the fact that there are people that could have either opinion should still play a factor in their ultimate decision. Not taking their opinions existence into account in the overall decision is basically saying that because you didnât voice it, your opinion doesnât matter. not to mention, the people that just flat out quit without saying anything at all should speak a factor, because that data actually is obtainable. So, again, just because someone didnât voice their opinions doesnât mean that theyâre not there and donât or shouldnât matter at all.
it will go up for a very short duration IMO because they just added horses something that people have wanted for a long time. As they play it they will start to notice the other changes and realize itâs failure.
Itâs really up to FC to figure out how to count the opinions of non-vocal players if FC even care. Otherwise people like me who actually care and wonât quit will need to find their own way here to be counted.
I agree, FC will figure it out and itâs not our place to decide if their opinions say something or not, but when people are acting like those opinions donât matter whatsoever, that should be addressed.
Agreed, thatâs why Iâm here as well, but not everyone is us. not everyone feels that their opinion is gonna do something, not everyone has access to the forums, and not everyone even cared to voice their opinions because they flat out quit over the update without saying a word to FC. Their opinions canât just simply be completely dismissed by FC like people are acting as they should be.
What Iâm getting at is instead of talking about whose opinions matter and whose donât, well, Iâll quote myself from earlier.
Thatâs fine for you to think, but that doesnât mean that FC should think the same. They have fans that didnât voice their opinion and they know that. not only the opinions voiced are the ones that matter. simple as that. Weâre not voting for a president, weâre asking if a mechanic in a game should be changed, not the future of an entire country.
And apparently I have to repeat myself, again. Why donât we stop acting like someones opinions are better and find a middle ground. actually give a constructive criticism and look for a middle ground fix for the update that pleases BOTH hardcore sides? Arguing over whoâs opinion matters is doing nothing but dividing people even further.
The simple fact is that there are people out there who donât like it, and there are people that do like it. and instead of bickering like 5 year olds, why donât we actually do some constructive criticism of the update instead of each other or the words they used? because you clearly understood what I meant.
I agree with you. I really do. I think the bickering is dumb. But I also feel that bad player arguments need to be challenged for the sake of keeping the debate and vocal players honest. Bad arguments (and I do mean bad arguments, not opinions I disagree with) can affect overall opinion and that does matters in this case, since there is a unique ecosystem with this company and its vocal player base.
I also donât feel as optimistic as you that FC will figure out how to engage with their player base who isnât vocal. This is anecdotal of course and I can only speak from my own experience: I read about the changes originally on steam news. I read between the lines of the announcement and realized this was a massive change and game redesign more than a fun content patch with some tweaks to balance. I had to dig for info to truly understand the gravity of the changes and when valid concerns were raised by other thoughtful players here and there was no real response or even acknowledgement. They allotted about a week for player testing right before rolling it out to a live servers which then affected all modes of game play. Of course a lot of these valid concerns raised early in this process became the basis for a lot of complaints that we are seeing over the past week. This all points to a very non-transparent internal process. So I donât foresee FC going out of their way to really get a pulse of these non-vocal player base.
So that leaves us where we are now. Players who are happy and those who are not - with a very real split of the number of opinions where the majority does matter and will effect future game design decisions.
Non-vocal players (which I was at one point) will still be oblivious to the critical mass of opinion that is necessary to get the attention of this company to make changes/ take actions regarding this game (which is why opinions matter in this context). The only silver lining for me is that there was enough critical mass of opinion to hold off on deleting legacy thralls until they put out a counter and hopefully figure a way to let us delete thralls remotely. And thatâs just how things seem to work here.
The whole combat mechanic is a mess. They fix one thing, something else breaks. It is no easy task. Just look at For Honor. It never overcame its problems.
I understand what an example is. but when itâs not of the same magnitude, the example fails to hold up. And actually, I would want people to feel the way they wanted. they could easily be on your side and all that would mean is that more people agree with you, not that my opinion wouldnât matter. Iâm not sure how else to help you understand either, but donât assume what Iâd feel just because you may feel that way if the shoe were on the other foot.
But should I post the definition of an argument for you to look at? because an âargumentâ isnât always heated.
itâs not about being right. we have a disagreement. the fact that you feel the need to be ârightâ is showing how much you think your opinion is higher than someonelses, man. people can agree to disagree and then work towards a middle ground in which they can agree. weâre humans, we have the intellect.
clearly you missed the point, bud. have a good time acting like your opinion is more important, things donât have to be written out to be said.
I was replying in the same way sarcastically, to sort of demonstrate my point. I apologize if I confused the subject by doing so. The entire point was we donât have the numbers. What we do have is either anecdotal or the polls on this forum to base our samples off of.
I would believe the polls are are more reliable source then my own experiences. (Which is actually funny in the fact that in my personal experience, the opinion among the people I know, most of them have enjoyed the leveling thralls and mounts, but hate the movement system, have been pretty annoyed with the roll, and it has 100% unanimous. Unlike the poll where a small percentage actually does like it.)
So yes, we could hypothesize about how many people are silently enjoying the game vs. how many people are silently irritated with the change or quitting because of it, butâŠ
When it comes down to it, the 60% vs. 16% poll for momentum is the best source we have.
I havenât spouted out any numbers. The only time i alluded to anything like that was me replying with your âgreat majorityâ to emphasize the point. I regret doing so now as it sent us down this pointless rabbit hole.
And about constructive criticism. I have posted quite a bit of that. Rather then repeating myself at this point, Iâm just interacting with the rest of the community and taking part in the discussion.
I donât believe I have once presented myself like a 5 year old and resent your perspective as such. If you want to think there was bickering, you can keep that to your side of the conversation.
Iâm discussing the patch, criticisms of it, and agreements or disagreements with others⊠No need for anyone to bicker.
And no one ever said your opinion doesnât matter. Just that its in the currently âknownâ minority.
yes, its a small sample. But its better then anecdotal evidence.
Funcom should be catering to the majority, as this is a business looking to sales more then anything else. If this patch is amazing enough its able to bring in more players then it loses, cold hard facts, Funcom did well, otherwise, if its the opposite, Funcom didnât do well.
Going by the only evidence we have, polls from the forums, posts, and maybe in a little bit after initial DLC hype goes away, Steam player numbersâŠ
More patches like this will be an issue for Funcom.
Thats the entire logic behind while majority is brought up.
No one is invalidating your opinion.
Some tweaks maybe be needed to achieve a good compromise between ânowâ and âbeforeâ butâŠ
I still find this new dodge funny, and I do not think I am a so skilled playerâŠ
well, I do not know but⊠butâŠ
âgit gudâ guys 
Well ive soloed bosses before also and its boring. When i say zero issues it means no i didnt die 3 times as i learned the mechanics of how climbing works.
I certainly didnt come here and whine about it.
So you want a Fortnite clone? The majority of gamers love it.
In case you have not seen the announcement