Is the some sort of mechanism in place to prevent save scumming? I ask because Dux missed with his 75% Circuit Breaker shot from about 5 feet away so I decided to reload and try again, which he duly missed again, and every subsequent attempt at the same shot. I gave up after 10 attempts thinking it must be bugged but thought I’d ask if anyone else has encountered this?
GreyGamer
I don’t know if it was intentional or not, but they do not seem to ever reset the random seed used. This means that if you replay the same savefile, you will get the same results. Imagine if a Dungeon Master rolled a bunch of D20s ahead of time and wrote them on cards and put them in a stack. Each time he needed a role, he just picked the next card off. At some point, the player asks to play the combat over again. He says “okay”, and puts the cards back on the stack in the same order as they were before.
This is also how XCOM has traditionally done it. With the Enemy Within DLC, they added an option called “Save Scum” that you could turn on that would regenerate the random seed (basically, create a whole new deck of random numbers) on loading so that nothing was ever the same twice.
It’s not that it is or is not “allowed” - it’s your game and you can do what you want - but the way they implemented it definitely does prevent you from changing a bad roll to a good one.
Thank you very much for such comprehensive reply, it was exactly the info I needed. Now, having said that I had already hit that shot successfully about ten minutes earlier but had reloaded because I thought I’d forgotten something, it was then that I simply couldn’t hit the same shot no matter how many times I tried. Surely if the ‘not resetting the random seed’ happened for missed shots it would also happen for successful shots, or am I being a complete noob and misunderstanding something?
If you did something in a different order or used up more or less of the pre rolled cards, to stay with that example, then you may get a different result.
Maybe you sneaked around some time, moved to a slightly different spot or moved or take the shoots in a different order…
Hi, I did all you mentioned, made no difference.
When you shoot in a different order you get a other roll, but that one can also be unlucky.
I usually don’t save in a ongoing fight so I never have to fight the random number generator.
Edit: the main question I still have is: what actions do need a random number and what actions don’t. Maybe someone want to try this. I don’t know a convenient way to do it.
From my tests - all things being equal - none of those things you mention affect the random number generation. It only uses the next random number when a random number is needed. So if you have three characters with three 50% shots and two miss then one hits, it doesn’t matter which characters you use in which order. Moving doesn’t change anything, since there’s no random chance involved.
Even skills don’t make any difference, as they aren’t using a random value or simply lower your % chance to hit (which could make a previously successful shot fail).
I haven’t tried to figure out if you share random rolls with the enemy, though. For example, if you had one enemy and you took a 50% shot at them and failed and they took a 50% shot at you and succeeded. Could you hide instead and then take the 50% shot at them next round and succeed?
Also, I’m not 100% sure of how they use the random numbers for criticals. They could be pulling a random number off to see if the shot succeeded and then pulling another random number to see if the critical succeeded. They could be skipping the critical check if the first shot fails (sensible). So that could also make things a little harder to understand.
For example, two stalkers shoot and miss 75% shots. Then another stalker shoots and hits on a 50% shot and then succeeds on a 35% critical. That’s potentially 4 random numbers A, B, C and D. Now instead you reload and have the third stalker shoot first. She succeeds on her 75% shot and succeeds on her 80% critical, using random numbers A and B. Now the other stalkers go and take their 50% shots. They could also succeed because random numbers C and D were such great rolls.
So that’s a case where there were the same random numbers will have different outcomes when you have unequal shot %s.
A better question is does it change the numbers if you leave the area and come back?
So if you are stealth killing at the scrapyard and can’t seem to get an important hit in, can you go to the Ark come back with a different set rolls?
Does exiting to main menu or exit the game reset the seed? On some XCom Versions that works
No. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen an xcom where that ws the case, either. At least if you’re talking about loading afterwards, rather than starting a new game.
Unsure on that one. Would be a good one to try.
I have experienced the seed changing when moving from a different zone and coming back during a few runs of the game, so it may entirely be the case.
I could be wrong but ive noticed that location+ turn number seems to play a role. For instance i go in and on turn 2 fire with dux at the top of a stairway and miss then i try that shot again from the same location on turn 1 i get a different result. if i go to the same spot on the same turn i will get the same result every time.
That’s kinda disheartening to hear. Only just started to play the game (got it via Humble Monthly), I wasn’t expecting the random number generator to be neutered like described in this thread.
The game is riddled with bugs and on consoles at least it seems destined to stay that way (the bug that literally shuts down XB1X consoles is still not fixed after 3 months) but the fact that you can’t cheat by reloading is not a bug or fault in my mind.
What’s the point having percentage chances to hit if you are going to reload until you hit? If you want 100% chance then get closer, use elevation, throw glowsticks but otherwise you take the risk, that is a core part of the game.
I don’t think it’s possible. you will just keep missing the shot.
The game basically wants you to move into 100% chance via stealth and kill everything that way. I tend to miss most 75% shots so I never risk them.