Is undermesh even "illegal"?

,

see here:

so

Since your postings are self-contradictory AND insulting, I am out of this :slight_smile:

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Funny that the server backend is actually Dreamworld. The question I addressed is in the OP: is it “illegal.” Is it against the rules. Yes, undermeshing is against the rules.

Case ripped from the headlines: are you actually saying that because Microsoft unintentionally left a webhook in Word, that it’s pretty much up to me to choose whether to exploit customer private data, and that I won’t be punished for employing it?

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Since your postings are self-contradictory AND insulting, I am out of this.

Let me make an example.
You are right and I made a fool of myself saying this.

Funny that the server backend is actually Dreamworld. The question I addressed is in the OP: is it “illegal.” Is it against the rules. Yes, undermeshing is against the rules.
Case ripped from the headlines: are you actually saying that because Microsoft unintentionally left a webhook in Word, that it’s pretty much up to me to choose whether to exploit customer private data, and that I won’t be punished for employing it?

Let me make an example about an other situation, you are thinking 1 way.

What if Microsoft released Word with a bug which you exploit the bug without knowing it.

That makes you guilty on paper, but not in your mind. The difference is that the world almost works on paper, not people’s mind. For example: Law.

If a person robs a bank, are you going to walk to that person and ask if that person can stop because it is illegal?

With games, it is an other story. They can release a not finished game/product without getting sued, which is weird because you bought a product and you won’t be happy with a half car.
What if you bought Conan, starting the game and you start under the navmesh because of a bug, makes you instand a criminal in your own words.

(Don’t come to me that people should have some basic knowledge, otherwise people werent rich in USA suing companies because the “lack” of instructions in manuals).

Yes, undermeshing is against the rules.

Like I said, almost everyone (gamers and developers) agrees to this in mind, but that doesn’t make you right on paper.
You can agree to a policy, but that is for online abuse. But they can’t sue you for undermeshing.

Can you search an article that a gamer is sued because of undermeshing?
They can only give a ban based on a MAC adress and/or Device ID, IP adress or ACCOUNT ID, because you broke the “House rule”.

So, it is the developers resonsibility to fix undermeshing, 100%

Don’t forget, if you bought Conan, you own the game/product.

If everyone keeps saying that these devs are doing a great job, it won’t get better by this and see no reason to work even harder.

So keep on reacting like it’s just a rain drop, a little (objective) criticism is not bad.

You would be a great manager :slight_smile:
“Hey, if a women delivers a baby in nine months let us hire 9 women and we can deliver a baby within one month” .

Some stuff needs time to be done and there is no way to rush this.
And especially fixing things. If you do it not right you have to do the job twice.

And bye the way, you did it again (“… and see no reason to work even harder.”). You assume that the devs are not working hard or do not work at their limits. Where get you this kind of knowledge? Do you know one of the devs or someone other at Funcom?
Or is this statement only the result of you negativ attitude at all?

lol.

Personally, with no knowledge of how a map this large is coded, the fix for all devs is to build the entire map as unbuildable/insta death, then “paint” in the areas that building and players are allowed. This way, they aren’t trying to find the holes where one can build/get to, but looking for areas to expand building/movement zones, and have way more prevention in out of bounds storage/safe havens. I would rather think “Well that is stupid, why can’t i build there” than , damn how did clan x get all that stuff under the map. Again, might be easier said than done.

In legal terms, the concept we’re discussing is called mens rea. Very few cases are actually predicated on this rather bookish idea, but a very notable one in US history, quite recently, hinged on whether a president’s son had criminality in mind when he allegedly attempted to set up a meeting. Because the judge ruled him as not having mens rea, there could be no corruption charge that flowed from these actions.

Similarly and appositely, there was a case where a pizza delivery driver was snatched up by robbers, fitted with a collar bomb and allegedly told to present a demand note to a bank teller. It was later determined that the deliveryman fitted with the collar bomb was somewhat in on the conspiracy, and thus possessed mens rea, which allocated or apportioned a small chunk of criminality to his actions.

Games are software, which in most cases, and even despite your purchasing or possessing the physical disk – you are simply licensed to use. Which means the developer, publisher or their contracted agents may withdraw your license for cause, or for violation of the software agreement, regardless of what was in your mind.

I have worked with Funcom in their Exploit Hunter program, and there have been many times where I had an opportunity to break their game with their consent. However, regardless of the cleanliness of my hands, I have never placed my license/storied ID in jeopardy, because I know that it might be withdrawn at any time.

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It’s not likely I’ll find any articles for your perusal, because most of the penalties enacted were the banning of an account. However, there are and were a lot of buildings and offices in Los Santos that are considered “no go” areas, yet players consistently found ways to get into them so that they could grief other GTA players without ever being at risk.

One of the disseminators of these glitches, a YouTuber named Br___go,* was banned permanently from the game, and due to his (at the time) residence in the EU was fined an enormous amount of money for cross-border fraud against Take-Two Interactive. It was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum and settlement. I was personally and professionally involved in this action against him, and while I’m not happy that this guy eventually started back up again once Scotland was “out” of the EU’s software enforceability, he was put out of commission for long enough that Rockstar was able to patch its own mesh. Even with their considerable power and cash, it still took longer than a year to complete.


* Citation edited, after a reasonable period for research of veracity.

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Another question:

Will funcom take action towards unique cases? Like will they join a server with enough evidence and delete them?

Or will i have to wait for an update/patch for the mesh to be fixed?

This is so lame, do your stupid job @Hugo @Ignasi

I’m sure Funcom have some staff members that could check on officials servers, when screenshots and /or video is presented in the way they ask for. If they get caught doing it they should deleted from the server but not a ban for 1st timers, 2nd time just ban there account! And thats up to them, hence the reason i don’t play anymore!

It’s the decisions they took.

Allmost all decisions are on paper on their own website, if you also consider for example the bugs that are fixed and with a new update it comes back, it’s like stitching wounds and all efforts is being done at least twice. That time they could spend what they were planning.

If my experience with this game is like they bring new updates with new elements, it bugs other things and most of the time the element itself.
Not properly coding is it? You can work your ■■■ of making the character beautifull, but if you can still undermesh… it doesn’t add and/or fix crucial elements to the game except for roleplay gamers…
Yes there will always be room for improvement and flawless coding is almost impossible.

In this case, the approach and adjustment for the situation are poor.

But if the bugs stacks up compared with their original plan/strat, they will get to a point of making hard decisions. Accept the fact that the game isn’t working as it should and fix the priority bugs first, which gives the enjoy and purpose of the game back. Resource is the most important element (for PvP - official), if people can hide resource where you can’t come, that brakes the game.
They can continue bringing new elements (like horses, dungeons etc), but if the speed of fixing/resolving bugs is slower compared the new elements which they bring in, you are making the game unplayable and will be a mess which in this case in my opinion already started with the mounts patch.

If we talk about mens rea, we could throws some examples here;

I played Halo2 on console, Multiplayer online ranked system (best ranking system ever made for multiplayer & clans). You had these days the “standby cheat” which may still work if not on dedicated servers and what this basically is, is blocking everyone’s IP adres except your teammate & servers IP. To find a match, your teammate will be host otherwise the game couldn’t start for me. This gives your teammate always the host for matches, if you are host you have power. Blocking their IP in a firewall will boot them from the game and switching firewall security from low -> medium gives the other players no chance.

What I did, I didn’t cheat in a way that I abuse the system for wins, but I perfomed this action so my friend was always host so we knew it would be fair play. After some time JTAG was introduced which are some mods with aimbot and killed the whole game instantly regarding the ranked and thus online multiplayer system.

So yeah, I’m a bad guy…

Will funcom take action towards unique cases? Like will they join a server with enough evidence and delete them?

Cost to much time.

Or will i have to wait for an update/patch for the mesh to be fixed?

If you believe them, it will get fixed somewhere in your lifetime.
But fixing mesh is hard, but I’m not a hardcore developer, but you can add an extra layer under the nav mesh (few inches in terms of design) and if that get touched you instanlty die.

They could (not that they have members only doing this job, but they could pull members from projects with less priority to perfom this action), they should have done this for damage control.
They didn’t, so it comes to coding.

You know where that goes…

Status:

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Like you did.
Your decisions was not longer playing the game.
Even if it is possible to play the game as you like it on a private server, where at least the problem of undermeshing will be fixed by the admin.
So even if there is a way to play (let us name it a workaround) your decision is stop playing and rather spend your time on the forum and blame at Funcom.

And before you say this is not a solution, it is, because the majority of all server are private server.
So it is your personal choice not to use this feature Funcom gave us for free!

And therefor why should Funcom stop developing updates and additional stuff to keep the majority of player at the game, just to satisfy the minority of player who have decided not to use the opportunity of private servers.

As long Funcom keeps the game running and fun for the majority they are fine.
And seriously, if players are leave the game, because they do not accept, that the possibility to run or rent private server and to play on moderated private server, solves a lot of problems, I wouldn’t be angry about.

And before you say this is not a solution, it is, because the majority of all server are private server.

Seriously?
Or 1: So the games magic relies on private servers…
Or 2: Why do you think private servers or a better options these days…?! And I wouldn’t join a private server unless I know the resource won’t get lost because some random person can’t pay bills or something.
Or 3: Something else…

Critism… Please…

Your decisions was not longer playing the game.
Even if it is possible to play the game as you like it on a private server, where at least the problem of undermeshing will be fixed by the admin.

Yeah, devs priority and responsibilty.
I did played on private servers, still there are to many bugs that brakes the core of the game.

So even if there is a way to play (let us name it a workaround) your decision is stop playing and rather spend your time on the forum and blame at Funcom.

Your decision to respond on a random guy which has his own opinion and share it with public.
You don’t like the message, why don’t you spend time where the people have opinions that you like.

For under-meshing their is no accidental use of it. So 1st timers should be banned for this. Most of the main exploits are done only by doing specific actions, so 1st timers should be banned on these. I could see if someone built above caves and stopped a spawn as something of a hey, you might want to move, because in future patches this may delete the base. But under the map??? You have to go thru steps to achieve. duping? you have to go thru steps. so allowing for a 1st time warning means you are okay with someone exploiting your game.

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And therefor why should Funcom stop developing updates and additional stuff to keep the majority of player at the game, just to satisfy the minority of player who have decided not to use the opportunity of private servers.

  1. How do you know that I’m the minority? Because this forum is PRO Conan?
  2. You are an example why developers continue making (bad?) games, you bring the money in and if the game has problems you make your own private server or work around it.

If I was a developer, I wish the whole community was like you.
Easy money, less effort.

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