Hi Zeropoint. Being able to breakaway from combat is of great importance to Singleplayer and online Solo play modes, as it is our only way to remain competitive against vastly superior opponents. Moreover, as WhatMightHaveBeen illustrated, this has already become much harder in recent times on account of the changes to the dodge system. So I dont feel that making escape more difficult is the answer on this one. BUT I am not going to get bogged down in these points, as they are not why I am replying. The reason why I am replying is to discuss this idea with you:
I absolutely and wholeheartedly support this call! In fact I suggested the very same thing; and several other combat additions (but refered to it as a ‘run in attack’) shortly after I first joined the forum back in 2018. Here is what I suggested:
1. New Combat Attacks:
(Arguably the most boring or divisive one) Charged attack-I feel it would nice to be able to hold down the heavy attack button for 1-2 sec for a slightly delayed stronger attack. Downwards thrust-as the name suggests, a downwards strike on a grounded opponent. Jump attack-as simple as it sounds, and useful for attacking opponents above you or those trying climb escape. Run in attack-when at full sprint, a quick lunge or opener attack.
These changes make good practical sense, would make the combat more fluid and interesting. Skyrim made good use of a charge in attack, and I would love it if we could do the same here. Should yourself or anyone else wish to read the thread it can be found here.
Even if they die they can just come back and repeat. If trolling is what they want to do, they’ll just use some cheap, easily replaceable throwaway gear, re-equip and get back into the fray.
Also - hit and run is a valid strategy. Especially for smaller clans or single players, it can be the only viable way to compete.
@Kapoteeni Guerrilla tactics are acceptable when you are out numbered. But come on, you’re telling me you don’t think there should be any risk to you if you turn your back on an armed opponent and run. Like no risk at all. And that this is an acceptable fighting strategy to draw out fights as long as possible, all the time. Because let’s face it, many people don’t use this just because they are outnumbered, they use it all the time, because they can. And in my opinion a pretty chicken way to play a game about barbarians. I mean, I’m playing on a casual server right now where drop loot on death is off, meaning there is essentially no risk if you die, you loose nothing. And people still do this, because they can.
You know the adage in real life is “never turn your back on a fight,” “always keep your eyes on the opponent.” Why, because someone could hit you when your back is turned. Not in Conan. Turn your back and run all you want, your opponent can’t touch you. That’s what I’m talking about, there should be some way to combat that strategy, some risk associated with turning your back during a fight. You can always do it, but it shouldn’t be risk free that’s all I’m saying.
@Croms_Faithful The run in lunge attack your are describing is exactly what I’m talking about, thank you. I really feel this is needed. When you are running so close to someone that you’re avatars bodies are literally touching, you should be able to hit them with an axe, sword, whatever. Not currently possible, because when you swing you stop, and they just keep on going. Disengaging from a fight should always be an option, but it shouldn’t be risk fee. People should be able to catch you if they are able.
I can safely say that I wasnt expecting you to make that a solution Zeropoint, but thanks! And I do agree with your follow up point too. I dont have any objections to a player having to be mindful and if necessary do some well time sidestepping while they flee, as after all this requires skill and timing. In fact there are certain enemy NPCs who I already have to do this with, such as Wolves, Rhinos and The Barrow King (all have charge in attacks). I will use Skyrim as an example again here. There are often times when enemies turn tail and flee, and I have to run them down with the charge attack. Sometimes I catch them and land it successfully, othertimes I outright miss, and they gain more ground as a result. However the point is that we stand a chance of catching them.
Yep, I know exactly what you are referring to here, although I cannot attach a technical gaming term to it. The problem is that when either attacking or dodging off of a run, this increased speed and foward momentum fails to carry over to, or impact upon the subsequent action. For example sake we will examine two actions; the first hit in the War Axe attack combination, and the dodge. The war axes attack open with a short leap in attack. However, initiating this from a full run does not make the openers leap any longer than than initiating it from a stand still. It is the same with the dodge. Rolling on the back of a full run offers no more speed or distance than doing so from a complete stand still. As soon as we initiate either an attack or dodge at full run, ALL momentum or inertia is cancelled.
Now this is where the Run-in or charge in attack could be a great mechanic. Both the attack and dodge should piggyback on that momentum, and be able to follow on without cancelling it out.
PS- Zeropoint I also like the idea of a jump attack, so that if an enemy is on a ledge, or tries to escape by climbing, we can hit them with a jump strike.
I agree a jump attack would also be useful. I feel like it would also be so satisfying to land one of those. But as you mentioned, with either the charge or the jump attack there is a chance the attack could miss, which would allow the person fleeing to gain ground. And this a good way to keep things fair. If the battle isn’t going you’re way and you want to retreat, you have that option, but you also have to watch you’re back, lest you get charged.
Charging would also be cool to use a way to open a fight. Possibly a risky maneuver, but it could give a big advantage. I think that a knowndown or cripple should accompany the charge attack to make the effect more useful if you do land it.
This is true. In historical battles (and especially when cavalry was involved), the majority of casualties were often caused after one side started fleeing and the victors chased them and cut them down. But there are many, many features in Conan Exiles that are not realistic or historically accurate, so I won’t get too stuck on this. Remember - in historical battles, most people didn’t die. They were either captured (a feature that doesn’t exist in the game) or successfully escaped.
What can be done in Conan Exiles is using ranged weapons to shoot runners in the back. Or mount up and ride them down.
I admit not being a PvPer so I don’t really understand what’s going on in the minds of people on PvP servers. On one hand we have people who seem to love chasing defenseless people and who are upset by not being able to murder weaklings who run away. On the other hand we have people who run away from fights. The runners were probably harvesting or exploring or otherwise not looking for a fight - I find it hard to believe that most people join PvP servers without the intention of participating in PvP combat.
But people want to choose their battles. That’s smart, of course - only a fool rushes into a battle they’re likely to lose. And one can’t be at 100 % alert 100 % of the time, so sometimes the fight finds you. At that point it would be needlessly brutal if there was no chance to disengage. It’s too bad the game doesn’t recognize the difference between an honest harvester and a trolling hit-and-runner.
You know Kapoteeni, you speak a lot of sense. I agree that the game is not completely realistic nor should it be. I do feel people should be able to choose their battles, disengage and retreat if needed, as I’ve said multiple times.
However my point here is that the current fight mechanics allow people in a fight too easily game the system. Draw out fights that could be two minutes into twenty or thirty minutes of cat and mouse chases, because whenever you get close to the kill the person just runs away enough to heal, then back at it. Evading and healing I have no problem with, I just personally find the whole cat and mouse game very frustrating, because there is very little I can do. And seem to run into this the majority of the time. But I’m not playing official PvP, so maybe my experiencing would be different there.
By the way, bows also suffer from the problem of hitting anything that is moving more than a mild walK (but I’ll admit I could just stink with the bow).
You’re point about horses is interesting. I just got in a fight with a Calvary and ground combat, which really changed the dynamic. I got run down in the back multiple times with the horse and that knockdown takes ages to recover from, wow. If you could call your horse this might be a recourse to catching someone that is running. They could call their horse too, but then you might actually have a fun chase. My experience with horses and PvP though is limited so I will wait to post any real opinions either way on it.
Horse and pvp is totally broken tho, 1st u deal way to much damage on a horse back, u give bleed every single hit aswell. And out of raid time ur not able to kill the horse if u knock the guy using it down. He must be on the horse and that’s to overpowered.
But yes horse is good for chasing aswell. But hunting a horse while using a horse is almost the same as hunting someone on foot, just a bit harder tbh.
I experienced this exact thing. It was not during raid hours so I kept getting run over with the horse but couldn’t damage it with my spear, something should probably be done about this, but that’s for another thread.
To your other point, I have tried using bows, still can’t hit people so long as they are strafing or zig zagging, or at least I can’t hit them enough to stop them. But I’ll admit that may be due to my lack of experience with archery. I maintain however, that a melee build should have some option to catch someone running. The charge attack I believe would be the best way to fix this.
Zeropoint you have to understand that the fight can’t only be one-sided in your favor my man. If you make it that in any situation you can kill someone it would just make the game unfair for people. Imagine you get raided, and try to escape with your stuff, and this (charge attack your talking about is a thing) what do you do to save your stuff. Imagine toxic alpha just running at people and killing them over and over again because of this (charge attack). Being able to run aways from a fight is a good thing and need to be in the game. I am sorry some people are abusing it. but like I said before I have no issue with them myself And yes with a bow you need parctice to be good at it I recommend getting up close on the person and autolock on your enemy than only use light attack ( the 3rd perk of strength and 4th perk of accuracy is a wrecking ball in pvp) keep practicing and you will become a pro my man.
But I 100% agree with the horse problem. I think the only way to fix it, is that we can only use weapon on horses back during raid hours. Very simple fix to had into the game.
Well I think we will have to agree to disagree about the charge attack. I don’t think it would make it fights one-sided with a few safe gaurds. Namely, it would require a lot of stamina, could miss and would have a cool down period in which the attacker couldn’t move. So if you missed, the person rolled out of the way or something like that, they can get a running head start or turn around and hit you. What I want basically is the option to strike a moving target with a melee weapon (that’s about it). This isn’t applicable to just stopping some one who is running away, this I think would make fights more interesting in general, because you could run at some one and strike at the risk of leaving yourself open to attack. But glad we are on the same page with horses in any case. I appreciate your feedback and suggestions here.
Then my question is, how far will that charge attack go? U know either way that guy that escaping can use that charge attack for escaping aswell. That’s what people cryed about with old roll for example, they didnt understand u can roll aswell to catch the guy up tho. Same with that “charge” u talking about, it can be used both ways.
Sorry but this is a useless topic. It just is. Nothing about this, or any other survival game is in any way, fair or balanced.
It was said that you don’t turn you back on an enemy in the real world. Wrong. If you are going to die, and you know the only way to stop that is to run…you run, as fast as you can. Sure, in the real world, there are guns, but not everyone has a gun. Often the smart play is to run as fast as you can.
Here’s a thought. Bump up your Grit, so when he runs out of stamina, you still have some left.
So by charge attack I’m referring to an attack, in which you swing your sword and move forward maintaining your initial momentum. As in I’m running up next to a person and I am so close we are practically touching, so I swing my sword in a charge attack, continue moving forward and possibly hit them (if they don’t dodge out of the way). Maybe with a knockdown affect for a good measure, or maybe that would be too overpowered that would require testing. The charge should not go far or be significantly faster than the sprint, Maybe no faster then a sprint. It simply allows you to attack while maintaining your momentum. That’s pretty much it.
I can see I upset a lot of folks, perhaps thinking I am the type of person that likes to chase down everyone I run across and ruthlessly slaughter them. This could not be further from the truth. I am mostly a casual pvper that likes a good fair fight, let the best player win. I will reiterate once again, that I am not advocating for the removal of the ability to disengage from a fight. Sometime retreat is the best option, I get it. You should be able to do it. However, I will stand by my claim that current mechanic of melee fighting that robs you of momentum every time you swing a sword, axe whatever, is not only silly, but allows for exploitive behavior, which is quite frustrating.
All I want to do is be able to hit something I am running right next to. Is this such a radical request? Perhaps to some it is. I appreciate your opinions. But so far I am not convinced. Adding some feature like this I feel would make fighting more interesting and more realistic.