You are the example I was speaking of. You’ve held server location spots for years now, given your admission. Your nostalgia does not make a provocative excuse for your behavior, especially when considering new players.
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On the last few servers I’ve played on, decay has been turned off. The admins can simply use a Pippi feature to remove unused builds and frequently have done so. It made no difference if the player was logging in for a minute once a week or so. The idea was that the map locations are for Active players first and foremost.
Unfortunately for servers managed like officials, this isn’t possible. When you have ~1500 players across 400ish servers (on PC), you can’t really get to know them and tell if they are active or not. So you need a system to do it.
The way it should work is the decay time should not be simply refreshed to full. There should tick up at a rate defined by a server setting (hey another tool for server admins, look at that!). By default it could be set at a 25-30 to 1 ratio. So if you play for an hour, you get a little more than a day added to the time. And would need to play for about 7-8 hours a week to top it off. But then it would be topped off for a whole week. So you’d have some wiggle room there.
And then what Funcom could do is during the times of year where they like to double the timer, they could simply double the ratio so that players who are active can supe up their timers for that time period.
I’d even consider divorcing the size of the builds from the decay timer as well, and possibly apply it to all buildings by simply being logged in. For PVE-C servers you could even set it up so the timer advances faster during PVP times and slower during PVE times. That might be something to consider.
It was your choice to allow your base decay as it was my choice to keep my base, I did play a little during the time but there was a lot of just refreshes. I completely disagree with making it harder for people to keep their bases. We have the decay timer for that reason and if someone misses their refresh then usually the base gets raided and sometimes destroyed by others if it does not just go into full decay at the end of the 24 hour period.
I think it would be a very bad idea for FC to force people to play a set amount of time per week/month to keep their bases, it would lose them a chunk of customer base.
I only build one main base on a server and will sometimes make a small FOB if I feel it is needed. I keep my main base open so that people can travel though if they wish, they have easy access to a map room, wells and even bridges if they make river crossing easier. I do however keep my housing, crafting and storage areas shut off as that seems to lead to the temptation of having naked strangers logged out in my home, bad enough I had one in my courtyard for over a week before the body finally disappeared.
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I think it would be very good if they forced people to be active.
The map belongs to active players.
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Do you know what some online solo players do because they can’t get a purge? They leave their computer connected to their server all night. If people do that for a purge, what do you think they’ll do to keep their stuff refreshed?
Imagine trying to hop onto the server to actually play, but you can’t get in because the server is 40/40 due to all the refreshers.
If Funcom ever implements some kind of upkeep, I hope they actually make it so people have to do something other than just being logged in. And I do hope they implement one, because there’s nothing else – short of subscription – that will convince people that they’re not entitled to indefinite possession of a free, shared resource.
It is a game that is meant for enjoyment. Any game that forces its playerbase to play makes it no longer fun as it becomes a chore so they will lose customers. I personally will never join a clan/guild in any game that demands that I play at certain times or a certain amount of hours and would never play a game from a company that tried to enforce such rules.
People have lives. Some weeks they can play more than others and some weeks they only have enough time to log in and refresh that should not be held against them. If someone is playing on Siptah for a few weeks they should be able to keep their EL base without having to put in x amount of time to do so.
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Then do like I do, play on a server that allows for your playstyle. But at the end of the day, active players come first. If you’re so inactive you can’t be bothered to login for a few hours a week, you’re no longer a customer. But just taking up space.
That doesn’t really work for purges, so if people are doing it, they are wasting time. Purge decay happens whether you’re online or not.
But in any case doing such an action is an exploit, and easy to see. Got a couple 40/40 servers, check out who is bypassing the afk check (there is one, it does work), and ban them for 7 days. They lose their buildings
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Is that new? I’ve never left my computer on all night, but the people who told me they did this are people whose word I trust, and they said it worked for them 
On the one hand, if we ended up in a hypothetical scenario where we have 40/40 servers hogged by refreshers, those refreshers should definitely get slapped with a ban.
On the other hand, the last thing we need is more changes that create rule-related drama. I understand when people are unhappy because they got banned and they’re not quite sure why, but a large percentage of current complaints comes from people who know what they did and I’m freaking sick of that.
So yeah, I agree with you when it comes to this hypothetical, but would rather have a better solution that avoids it.
I’m interested to see typically 0/40 servers become 40/40 overnight. I doubt it would happen though.
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And for about 3 years out of those 4, the average population was 0. The server was dead. Im not holding anything back from anyone…since it can just be blown up by someone if they choose to.
Or, if it bothered someone so badly that someone is built in a specific place…you could find a server where someone isnt built in the place you wish to build in. Unless you think that that idea is wrong, because its wrong for me to hoard a specific spot for a period of time.
But then doesnt that make you entitled when you go onto an old dead server and want someone to move or quit, or have repercussions because YOU want a spot that someone else has?
The map is huge, and there is a nearly unlimited space to build. Why do you need precisely where someone else is built?
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I really hope not to turn this into a 100 reply back and forth again (lol), but as someone who plays on officials…
… I just 100% disagree with banning people because they arent as active as some people want them to be. If youre talking about doing this on a private server - by all means, write the rules and enforce as you see fit. Nowhere on the official rules does it say people cant log in and refresh builds. Some people might take a couple weeks off as a break, and some might take a couple months off. Doesnt mean they should lose all their stuff because someone doesnt like the idea of refreshing bases.
And there is also nothing people can do to convince other players they are not entitled to build in a specific spot thats been taken. This depends on the type of server (obviously on a PVP server you can wipe it out, and PVE orPVE/C you cant) but as fast as you can say a person isnt entitled to a spot for as long as they want, the next person can say ‘well that spot is taken, build somewhere else or find a server where no one is built in that spot’, right?
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I’m not surprised you would suggest that unattended automated play shouldn’t be banned.
Not only doing so is a bannable offense on officials, but can result in a strike against your Steam Account(s):
But then again you have no clue what a hack or exploit is. You’re too innocent and naïve for that.
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Which is why a good upkeep system would allow you to take a couple of weeks or a couple of months, but definitely not a couple of years. Farm up for your break, then relax and enjoy it. After that, either farm up for another break, or give the space back.
Let’s not straw-man things… again.
It’s not about being entitled to building in a specific spot and it never has been. It’s about denying the use of a finite, shared resource without actually using it yourself.
Similar to your argument about “blocking resources”, it’s not about any specific spot, it’s about how this behavior adds up. I’ll sit on one spot, you’ll sit on another, NavyLily will sit on a third on, and so on, and so on, until the server is a ghost town: full of buildings, devoid of life.
“Hogging finite resources indefinitely is not sustainable” is only controversial if your preferred philosophy is “FYGM”.
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Keep in mind, Im talking about people logging in to refresh bases. And yet refreshing your base isnt hacking or exploiting. Are perhaps referring to a macro meant to keep your toon from getting auto kicked if afk?
That I could agree on, I dont think people should be using macros in games. But I dont think its ban worthy simply because I dont like it. If Funcom thinks macros are an exploit, its a few simple keystrokes to add “no marcos” in the rules. They would then need to tell people not to jam their keys down in such a way to make your toon walk forever until you die of thirst in your base, because you can do that without a macro.
Sure, if you take years off, then the question arises of why you are keeping your stuff. I cant speak as to why someone would…but hey, to each their own. Myself, I do play off and on again and I like my base, my location and what used to be my quiet corner of a dead server. If a server has no population, it aint hurting anyone to keep my base going over time.
So in your opinion, if a person isnt active (now we need to define active) they arent entitled to a spot because they arent online enough for your liking. So that person that has been playing off and on is now in the wrong because some new player came along and wants to build in the exact same spot someone else already has a base in?
Quoted from numerous people, including yourself “Funcom has thousands of servers”. At this point we should also make sure were talking the same game type (PVP or PVE) because that matters too. If it happens on a PVP server, you have two options - blow it up and take the spot, go to a different server, although I havent seen anyone on a pvp server rage or report anyone for building in a spot that they wish to build. Its also can be as simple as building elsewhere. If were talking about PVE…I cant say for certain peoples attitudes, but it almost can boil down the same - find a different place to build, or find a different server.
Again, what you may see as a player acting entitled because they are built in a spot, and logging in to refresh, thinking they are denying a “free and shared resource” to other players…
…the next person sees that new player demanding bannable action against someone whose built in a location because they think they are entitled to want whatever they want? “Free and shared resources” also means not going in and pouting because you cant build in that ONE particular spot.
Dead serious question for a PVE server - whats wrong with building in a different spot instead of where someone else is? How does someones base location matter given that doesnt affect your PVE gameplay?
Sooooo…then a new person should just report a person refreshing their base because they cant build in that same spot? “Since your not online enough for my liking I want you banned so I can have the spot becuase Funcom says we have to share in the rules”? I just disagree.
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If a server is choked with unused builds that belong to serial refreshers, then maybe that’s one of the reasons for its low population?
Or you could stop ignoring the parts of my reply that you don’t like and pretend I didn’t write them. I explained this has nothing to do with the “exact same spot” straw man you’re so fond of.
False equivalence. “Funcom has more than a thousand servers” is very relevant when discussing whether Funcom is capable of having a dedicated admin for each of them. It becomes much less relevant when you’re talking about the experience of having to scroll down a thousand servers to find one that isn’t choked by kids who don’t want to share the toys in kindergarten but also don’t want to play with them.
And that is if you assume that all those 1000+ servers are available to all players, which conveniently ignores the fact that not all servers are for the same gameplay mode, or that not all servers are in the same region, or that not all servers in the same region have a decent ping for each player.
There actually are differences between spots, but like I said, that’s not what the argument is about. For someone who “really hopes not to turn this into a 100-reply back and forth again”, you sure like to ignore counterarguments.
When I talk about finite shared resources, I’m not talking about location only. Available surface area is one of those resources, but there are others, such as memory, bandwidth, and processing power. The more buildings you have on the server, the more you’re taxing that server’s resources. It’s part of the game, assuming that you’re playing the game. But the cumulative degradation of server performance in service of people who aren’t playing is just adding insult to injury.
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This seems hyperbolic, but it actually mirrors an experience I had in another game amazingly well.
There was 4 v 4 mode in this game and players got XPs for every match regardless of what or how well they did. This is good for players who aren’t great to be able to still level up, but unfortunately it’s also very easily exploited
It was common to have at least five AFKers each match and ended up making it basically unplayable. I had more than one match that I loaded in to find I was the only player not AFK🤮
It could be on some yes, on the official I was on, for about the last six months, my real estate was the only stuff on the server. In the last month, population has exploded, and of the people playing, no one has complained about our stuff, and has even gone so far as to compliment my open map rooms and walkways in areas as being helpful.
Then why exactly is anyone even upset if people are refreshing bases (obviously so long as they arent blocking stuff)? If the anger isnt because they can build elsewhere…by god, build elsewhere and let people have their bases. I dont see how anyone can be upset if its NOT about building in a particular area hence why I reference it.
Nope, its not. Search for officials, then type (pvp or pve) then click on population to sort for low instead of high. Literally three clicks. Its not hard.
While true, and I know the 1000’s of servers covers all Funcom’s officials across all types and regions, I will guarantee you there are lots of empty servers in each region of all types. Not hard to find some empty ones if thats what you desire.
Adding an Edit here: I just checked PVE North American servers, and searched for low population: 25 servers with 0 pop, 10 servers with 1 player, 8 servers with 2 players and 9 with population between 3-9. Thats 52 servers with 9 or less players. That quite alot to choose from.
PVE/C servers - 16 servers with 0 population and 5 with 1-3 players.
PVP servers - showed me 15 servers with 0, but these dont matter since you can destroy stuff you dont like.
^^^ Point here isnt a gotcha, but rather, there are options.
Ok, I can acccept that answer. Solution? Low pop servers. Take some time to scout out low pop or empty to see whats built. Almost certain that on PVE servers you can tell how crowded a server could be building wise, since lots of people build altars for the crafting. If you log into a server and see 500 altars on the map - its congested, even if its low pop. If you see an empty map with low pop, chances are your going to be alright. A bit of homework before starting works too.
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Exploiting is subjective. It is what Funcom says it is. So if enough people 9n 9ff8cials feel 15 minute refresh runs for months on end Is exploiting the decay mechanic, they can decide.
Best way to “win” an argument on something like this is to conclude why you think it hurts or helps Funcoms business model. The numbers will dictate what they (Funcom) decides.
I for one know many who tried game and left because of the amount of “dead” bases on officials. So for me, it hurts the games growth potential.
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Are you talking about this filter?
If so, I have no idea what it’s supposed to measure – Funcom never explained that – but all officials in my search list are “low”. The server list is empty if I set it to “medium” or “high”, so that filter is useless for the purposes of our discussion.
If, on the other hand, you’re talking about sorting by number of players, then you’re talking out of your lower dorsal orifice. The number of players shows how many players are currently logged in, not how many have built their forgotten theme parks on the server.
In fact, unlimited building and serial refreshing are two biggest reasons for why the number of currently logged in players cannot be used as an estimate of the server population.
And now we’ve gone from false equivalence to false dichotomy. No, “empty server” is not what I desire and it’s not the only possible alternative to “dead server with lots of buildings”. But more on that below.
Did you also check the ping for them? Maybe your geographic location is better than mine, or maybe your ISP has a better infrastructure in place than mine. Whatever the case, when I sort official PVE-C servers by ping, the top 10 are usable, and the rest are going to be laggy.
If the options are between a turd soup and a turd salad, you’re not gonna have a great lunch either way. That’s when you go and start complaining about people who put turds in your food. That’s what some of us are doing here.
Yeah, “homework” is precisely what I do. I’ve played this game long enough that I know what to look for, so I spend some time scouting out the servers before I choose one to settle down with my new character. Hell, sometimes I even spend 30 minutes running around, before I decide, because even if there are few T3 shrines on the map, you’ll still sometimes get a bunch of bloated semi-abandoned crap infesting the server.
So yeah, if you do some “homework”, you can pick the least shіtty server. Congratulations, are you having fun with the game yet? And that’s if you know what to look for, which requires sticking with this game long enough to learn that and liking it despite all this. Which brings me to my next, and final, point:
This is precisely what I’m pointing out all this time.
All this nitpicking about how many servers we have available and hand-wringing about how it’s so hard to understand why people complain, all of it deliberately and willfully ignores the cumulative effect of serial refreshers, at least on PVE(-C) servers.
And that cumulative effect is detrimental.
Take a typical PVE(-C) “ghost town” server, full of grandiose (or at least massive) builds and with less than a handful players online during the “prime time”. A newbie comes in, expecting that playing this game on an official server means having fun with other people. Upon seeing all these builds, what is this newbie going to think? “Oh, wow, this is pretty creative! I bet I’ll meet a lot of fun people here.” But there are maybe 3 people on the server and the rest log in to refresh, 5 minutes a week, if that. Boooooooooring.
Some of these newbies will be very lucky: they’ll stumble upon a server with decent ping where the average population during prime time is high enough to have fun with other people, but there are still decent spots to build, and the server isn’t so full of elaborate theme parks and follower zoos to make it lag horribly. These people have lucked out. The rest will either get bored of low population on a ghost town server, or get bored of not being able to swing a cat without hitting someone’s huge build, or get bored of constant lag.
Veteran players, on the other hand, know what the score is. They’ll make a list of servers with good enough ping and then go spend up to 30 minutes on each, then pick the least crappy one, settle there, and hope that things will work out. If it was a good server to start with, they’ll have fun until either other people get bored and turn the server into a ghost town, or a clan of trolls and griefers lands on it and ruins the fun for everyone, or maybe someone new builds a whole ton of stuff that brings the server performance down to its knees. If it wasn’t a very good server from the start, they might stay and hope that eventually some of the stuff will decay and someone new will walk in and start actually freaking playing the freaking game.
Of course, some of this crap is already being slowly sorted out by Funcom. The bloat is slowly being weeded out through reports, so at least we might stop having to worry about the server being a lagfest. Let’s hope that Funcom focuses on the ghost town effect next.
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