Log in, reset timer, log off- Players who don't play

[Nemisis]

@CodeMage

If so, I have no idea what it’s supposed to measure – Funcom never explained that – but all officials in my search list are “low”. The server list is empty if I set it to “medium” or “high”, so that filter is useless for the purposes of our discussion.

If, on the other hand, you’re talking about sorting by number of players, then you’re talking out of your lower dorsal orifice. The number of players shows how many players are currently logged in , not how many have built their forgotten theme parks on the server.

In fact, unlimited building and serial refreshing are two biggest reasons for why the number of currently logged in players cannot be used as an estimate of the server population.

Im talking about using current online players to find a low population server. Then, like I explained, a person can do some map checking and running around to see how many buildings are there, if any. If server performance is the highest, most important thing for a player when joining a PVE server…this is the least you would do, since (guessing) 99% of players when choosing a server dont do this. They go for a populated server for the community feeling, and I understand that.

@CodeMage

Did you also check the ping for them? Maybe your geographic location is better than mine, or maybe your ISP has a better infrastructure in place than mine. Whatever the case, when I sort official PVE-C servers by ping, the top 10 are usable, and the rest are going to be laggy.

There is not a thing in the world a game developer can do to solve this for individual players so its a moot point. You cannot cater games to people who have bad ping due to geographic location.

@CodeMage

If the options are between a turd soup and a turd salad, you’re not gonna have a great lunch either way. That’s when you go and start complaining about people who put turds in your food. That’s what some of us are doing here.

But going into a restaurant called “100 ways to serve turds” your going to get what you think. Find me another multiplayer game like Conan with the freedom to build and play the game that doesnt lag out, studder or have server issues when the server is populated either by people or buildings. They all do.

@CodeMage

This is precisely what I’m pointing out all this time.

I didnt quote your whole reply too long lol. Your not wrong here in anything you said. But that new player wants a populated server for that community feel. I understand that, and yeah on PVE thats a big part of the game. So, he wants that, and a smooth running server, and no buildings crowding everything and this, and that, then this, then that. The only things to do in Conan on a PVE server is running the dungeons, collecting thralls and building (and maybe RPing but there arent any official servers whose rules state RP so Im not gonna include this). I mean, on a populated server, what do you expect then? There will be buildings all over the place, from new, current and old players.

Maybe the solution is wiping? Nope, lots will be upset with that too. Shorten the decay? Seems unfair when that only caters to new people who dont have much time invested. Until Funcom does a drastic change to their rules (which could happen, theyve done big things before after years of denying it) the only solution if you want a smooth running server is to find a more empty one.

[CodeMage]

@Nemisis

There is not a thing in the world a game developer can do to solve this for individual players so its a moot point. You cannot cater games to people who have bad ping due to geographic location.

It’s not a moot point, and there are things devs can do about this. They already did them, in fact: they provided us with plenty of servers all over the globe, so that the geographical distribution will ensure that there’s something for everyone.

In other words, the devs provided us with options. And then some players started making those options worse across the board. Which is why the ball is in the devs’ court again, so they’ll deal with this behavior somehow

@Nemisis

I mean, on a populated server, what do you expect then?

Pretty much every other post I wrote to you in this thread includes a part where I’m saying that if you’re playing the game actively, then at least you’re “giving something back”, so to speak. You’re not just a drain on the server resources, you’re not just hogging the land, you’re actually playing the game. That was the whole point.

We don’t need to conflate all the things that drag the game down and pretend that a change is no good if it doesn’t magically solve all of them.

I would be fine with an upkeep system that requires people to be more active the more they built. They don’t have to be active at a constant rate, because it’s supposed to be a game, not a job or a recurring appointment. But they should be active on average and that average should depend on how much server they’re “taking up”.

@Nemisis

Maybe the solution is wiping? Nope, lots will be upset with that too. Shorten the decay? Seems unfair when that only caters to new people who dont have much time invested. Until Funcom does a drastic change to their rules (which could happen, theyve done big things before after years of denying it) the only solution if you want a smooth running server is to find a more empty one

“What could we do?” Maybe have some in-game mechanics that requires players to play the game if they want to keep their stuff. “How about periodically wipe all the stuff people have built?” Or maybe some in-game mechanics that ensures people actually play the game? “You’re right, wiping won’t work. Perhaps we could make the refreshers to log in more often, so they spend 15 minutes a week instead of 5?” How about in-game mechanics to make them play the game? “You’re right, shorter decay won’t work either. I don’t know, maybe if they change the rules?” Or in-game mechanics so people play the game? “Damn, I guess there are no solutions to a problem this hard.”

Look, it’s not about a “smooth running server”, just like it wasn’t about “building in the exact same spot as someone else”, and it won’t be about any other thing on which you decide try to shift the focus next. What I’ve been saying right from the start is that it’s about the cumulative effect serial refreshers have on the PVE(-C) servers.

A dead server is bad. A server that’s stressed by overbuilding but has a lively community is not ideal, but it’s much, much better than a dead server. But a dead, overbuilt server? That’s just shіt. You can serve it on a surf-and-turf risotto that came from a Michelin star restaurant, but it’ll still smell awful and nobody should be forced to eat it.

[stelagel]

This is not bad. I believe the 100 hours in 3 months are a necessity to stay present in the server population. Yet…
This is their decision and they pay the prize for being more strict, no one else.

[Selene01]

The solution is an upkeep system like in RUST.

For example :
From 0 to 500 building pieces, 3% per day.
500 to 1000 5%
1000 to 5000 7%
5000 to 10000 10%

Something like this, the more you build, the more you have to pay the upkeep … and then play the game

[biggcane55]

That is what many have wanted. And simple as using iron bars for t1, Steel Bars for T2, and hardened Steel for T3. This way it requires some crafting time, meaning have to revisit. And the most you should be able to place in the station that drives this is 2 weeks worth of mats for the current build attached to it.

And to also help with thrall decay, can rephrase the feed stations to do this. Meaning it counts thralls and burns food based on that number at 1 hour intervals.

[Nemisis]

@CodeMage

Did you also check the ping for them?

@CodeMage

Whatever the case, when I sort official PVE-C servers by ping, the top 10 are usable, and the rest are going to be laggy.

@CodeMage

They already did them, in fact: they provided us with plenty of servers all over the globe, so that the geographical distribution will ensure that there’s something for everyone

So Funcom already solved the ping/lag issue and that becomes like I said, a moot point.

@CodeMage

I’m saying that if you’re playing the game actively , then at least you’re “giving something back”, so to speak. You’re not just a drain on the server resources, you’re not just hogging the land, you’re actually playing the game. That was the whole point.

I guess thats where we see things differently. You see people who refresh their bases as a drain on server resources, and I just dont. If their building are so big and massive as to be such a horrendous drain, Im quite sure (and you likely agree) some daily active players have just as much. Wipe their stuff too? Or do they get a pass because they are “active”?

@CodeMage

Look, it’s not about a “smooth running server”, just like it wasn’t about “building in the exact same spot as someone else”, and it won’t be about any other thing on which you decide try to shift the focus next.

So then what is it? First I thought it was building locations taken up that others couldnt have, then you said no, its not that. Then it was a drain on server resources, and now your saying its not that.

I aint moving the goal posts here…

@CodeMage

What I’ve been saying right from the start is that it’s about the cumulative effect serial refreshers have on the PVE(-C) servers.

…which is a drain on server resources as youve explained. But thats not what it is right?

So you would like to see all servers only have active players so people, both new and old can enjoy the game. Arent you denying those that have time invested in the game their gameplay by telling them they are in the wrong?

The rules (at this point) do not mention players or their bases that take extended time from the game. It does not mention it being wrong to log in and refresh to keep their stuff. Before you try to say that Im using the excuse of “well its not in the rules so fair game” technically, yeah its true…its not in the rules so its fair gameplay. But Im not using that excuse. Im trying to point out that everything you are seeing as wrong and want fixed or changed it part of the game. You said yourself that its a game and not a job. Let people come and go, and if they make the time every few days to keep their builds, let them.

[Taemien]

@Selene01

The solution is an upkeep system like in RUST.

For example :
From 0 to 500 building pieces, 3% per day.
500 to 1000 5%
1000 to 5000 7%
5000 to 10000 10%

Something like this, the more you build, the more you have to pay the upkeep … and then play the game

I’ve seen this suggested a few times. So I decided to do the math on it.

At the higher end builds, that means some peeps with their 50,000 piece bases would have around 75,000 Hardened Bricks, 20,000 Shaped Wood, and 15,000 Steel Reinforcements to pay per upkeep.

I’m changing my position to this.

[CodeMage]

@Nemisis

So then what is it? First I thought it was building locations taken up that others couldnt have, then you said no, its not that. Then it was a drain on server resources, and now your saying its not that.

Is it building locations? Yes and no. Yes, because “where can I build” is part of the problem. No, because it’s not “I want to build in this exact spot and nowhere else”, like you tried to straw-man it.

Is it server resources? Yes and no. Yes, because everything we build adds up and contributes to server load. No, because it’s not about “a particular massive build bothers me”, like you tried to straw-man it.

Is it just building locations and server resources? No, it’s also this:

@CodeMage

Take a typical PVE(-C) “ghost town” server, full of grandiose (or at least massive) builds and with less than a handful players online during the “prime time”. A newbie comes in, expecting that playing this game on an official server means having fun with other people. Upon seeing all these builds, what is this newbie going to think? “Oh, wow, this is pretty creative! I bet I’ll meet a lot of fun people here.” But there are maybe 3 people on the server and the rest log in to refresh, 5 minutes a week, if that. Boooooooooring.

And this:

@CodeMage

A dead server is bad. A server that’s stressed by overbuilding but has a lively community is not ideal , but it’s much, much better than a dead server. But a dead, overbuilt server? That’s just shіt.

Not that it will stop you from pretending that I’m saying something mysteriously vague here, when it’s really as simple as: log in, see a bunch of buildings, expect to have fun with people who built that, have a shіtty experience, go play something else.

@Nemisis

I aint moving the goal posts here…

Okay, then maybe we need a name for when someone pretends that they can’t see where the goalposts are, ignoring the finger that points to the goalposts, and pointing in random direction and asking “Is this it? How about this?”

Credit where credit’s due, you’re abso-freaking-lutely awesome at that. After a while, it stops being a pain, and becomes weirdly endearing.

@Nemisis

So you would like to see all servers only have active players so people, both new and old can enjoy the game. Arent you denying those that have time invested in the game their gameplay by telling them they are in the wrong?

Yep! Now, you’re getting it! I am denying that a one-time investment should give you the free pass to keep your stuff indefinitely. And before we go into some silly debate about how things are done in the real world, I’m not talking about real world. I’m talking about this particular video game, so I have zero interest in chasing red herrings and discussing “possession vs. property” or anything like that.

It boils down to this: by squatting on your stuff for years without playing, you’re “taking” something away and you’re not “giving” anything back. There’s finite amount of that “something”. In order for “both new and old” players to enjoy the game, we should make sure that “taking” always requires a certain amount of “giving”.

@Nemisis

You said yourself that its a game and not a job. Let people come and go, and if they make the time every few days to keep their builds, let them.

The former doesn’t require the latter.

[Taemien]

What I find sad in this thread is how attached people are to buildings. If you built a base years ago, and simply login to refresh, what the hell are you doing? No seriously, step back and ask yourself what the hell are you doing?

It is a set of values in a database, letters and numbers. Nothing more. Its not an antique, its not a collectors item, let it go. Seriously, take a few screenshots, store them somewhere and delete that character.

Now take a break from Conan Exiles for about a month. I’m serious, I am not telling you all to do something I don’t do myself. But take a break. When you come back, when you start fresh. I guarantee that you will have some of the most fun in the game you’ve had for months if not years.

Try a different build with your character. Try a different game type. If you’re on PC, try mods, seriously they’re alot of fun. If anything try a new map, if Siptah isn’t your thing, try Savage Wilds, its the best of both worlds of Exiled Lands and Siptah.

Build in a different style, use building styles you never thought to do before. I swear to God its fun. Its how I’ve gotten over 4,000 hours played and still having a ton of fun even today. I’m probably on my 15th or 16th server and 23rd character by this point. I’ve played Picts, Nordheimers, Stygians, Zingarans, Vendhyans, and even Elves on high fantasy servers.

This game has way more to offer than 5 minutes a week logging in simply to refresh. If that’s what you’re doing now, you’re not playing the game. You’re not enjoying the game. I’m sorry no amount of reasoning or nostalgia is going to change that fact. If you’re not actively playing, then the gameplay and everything you’ve done in it is already dead to you.

Its time to move on. Its time to let someone else build in that spot so they can make amazing things. Don’t stifle others for your own ego.

[Tystin]

60 days is 2 months, and I never specified a set number of hours in my suggestion, that number is up to Funcom. I would also advocate for a 10-15 minute “inactivity” kick to prevent players from standing in their bedrooms while they are at work in order to cheat this suggested system of log-in requirements.

[Taemien]

Like this:

KickAFKPercentage=80
KickAFKTime=2700

I don’t remember if that is default or not, took it from a singleplayer config. But the first value determines when to turn the feature on. At 80 for a 40 man server it starts checking AFKers at 32/40. The 2700 is the number in seconds they can be AFK for, in this case that would be 45 minutes.

The settings are easily adjustable. Could even set the first value to 0, which means its always on. And the second value to something like 600 for 10 minutes.

Anyone using a method to trick this setting is exploiting and can be banned for it. I do believe this setting is enabled on officials. I just don’t know what the values are.

[Tystin]

I’ve been trying to convey this very thing. I’ve read arguments here on this thread to “play on another server”, “games are to relax, we shouldn’t be forced to play them”.

Both go hand in hand. One suggests running from a problem on Official servers and creating your own solution by playing on private or modded servers while ignoring the point. Official PVE has ghost town issues and there needs to be a solution. Requiring playtime to keep your investment I do not find to be aggressive, because, in fact, you are not playing a single-player game, you’re playing online and as some would like to think, their actions do affect the other players on the server.
The second suggests that requiring a playtime limit is not fair to the infinite resetters. I’d argue they are being unfair to the other players by forcing us to stare at their abandoned building knowing they have no consideration for anyone but themselves. In a single-player game, you save your progress, shut the game down and it patiently waits for you to return. On Conan Exiles officials’ online servers, it just does not work that. Single players are treating online servers like single-player save files.

[Barnes]

@Taemien

Anyone using a method to trick this setting is exploiting and can be banned for it. I do believe this setting is enabled on officials. I just don’t know what the values are.

It’s not enabled on Officials. It was for such a brief time but now it’s gone.

Keeping one’s session alive for diagnostic purposes is always allowed, even with AAA vendors. Rockstar provides a guide for “auto-walking” in order to prove whether the game, console or the controller is at fault. It requires the player to strap his analog stick down and leave the console online during a regular or private session. As a tech I have asked players to keep their sessions alive in GTA, RDR and Conan, and have even recommended a software tool designed specifically for the job.

I think it’s a bit rash to call for bans on something that is an effective diagnostic tool.

[Barnes]

@Tystin

I’ve been trying to convey this very thing. I’ve read arguments here on this thread to “play on another server”, “games are to relax, we shouldn’t be forced to play them”.

We started on this server in May, and invested significant time in it. We were hoping for battles and fun and destruction, and instead it’s just me, again, and my Apple Watch telling me to go to bed.

At what point are we supposed to just quit? I keep hoping people will show up, but when they do they simply transfer out to Siptah after a few weeks.

[Tystin]

Barnes, are you a PvP-er? If so, I have no experience with this type of gameplay on Conan. I only play PvE so I can in my own time enjoy the content that is available. I prefer to join other players in purge events, surges and general gameplay.

[Barnes]

More or less. Mostly less. I ain’t been killed by anything other than pulling my bracelet in 13 months.

Still, if 3.0 comes out and it’s hot, why can’t I keep my boss castles? People might return. etc

[Brockweaver]

To add to the discussion, I would suggest Funcom implement a “Bank” which is tied to their account and not tied to any specific Official Server.

What you have described, I have seen and am guilty myself of logging into a server only to refresh an old project while actively working on a different project on another server. Many things lead to me hopping and putting a base in this status: player drama, sudden decrease in player base, offensive players, real life, etc. For whatever the reason my initial intention is to come back later and see if the server environment is more appealing. If the reason why I left persists, I’ll let the base decay and release my thralls. Normally within a month’s time.

With my suggested non-server specific “Bank”, it would allow players to place hard earned items or resources for later use, on any server, they may then call home. Otherwise, players are likely more inclined to hang onto an unused base longer than necessary.

Keep in mind, the new ability to pick up building pieces and the ability to transfer, already work to facilitate a clean “move” to a different server. My suggestion would just be the next logical step in my opinion. Funcom could limit the size of this “Bank” and could even restrict it even more by limiting the number of thralls. ie. one of each type of crafter thralls, 5 fighter thralls, 5 archers, 5 pets, etc etc. I would love to be able to upload a thrall from one server to be used on another and shuttling crafters between servers during a transfer is just a pain.

[Tystin]

That’s a pretty creative suggestion. My only issue would be strictly in the manner of how effectively Funcom can implement it. I am not a coder or anything close to it! I in a general sense would assume that implementing a playtime requirement based on hours played would be easier than a global banking system which requires Funcom to have some sort of memory of thousands of players “banked” items.

[Taemien]

@Barnes

It’s not enabled on Officials. It was for such a brief time but now it’s gone.

Keeping one’s session alive for diagnostic purposes is always allowed, even with AAA vendors. Rockstar provides a guide for “auto-walking” in order to prove whether the game, console or the controller is at fault. It requires the player to strap his analog stick down and leave the console online during a regular or private session. As a tech I have asked players to keep their sessions alive in GTA, RDR and Conan, and have even recommended a software tool designed specifically for the job.

I think it’s a bit rash to call for bans on something that is an effective diagnostic tool.

Amazon in New World, Blizzard in World of Warcraft, Daybreak in Everquest, Everquest 2, Planetside 2, and DC Universe Online, SquareEnix in Final Fantasies XI and XIV, Zenimax in Elder Scrolls Online and Funcom in Age of Conan will ban for AFK avoidance measures.

Its not rash, its normal.

Sorry but your diagnostics are not more important than someone else trying to login to a full server. The only reason this setting might be off (I’m not sure that it is) is due to the low populations of officials currently (again might seem to be turned off because they aren’t at the threshholds to activate the feature. I think default IS 80% capacity).

[Brockweaver]

As a player, I would respond much more positively to a favorable option to solve my dilemma rather than accept constraints to how or when I could or should play. People tend to react harshly when things are taken, especially when something is not also given at the same time.

In regards to the memory requirements, well the item has to take up memory someplace, whether its an Exiles, Siptah or Bank server correct?

It would be nice if a player had the option to decay / release all immediately, in the event they know they are not coming back. I recently abandoned a camp and manually had to delete over 50 thralls, this was a pain. I could have let them sit, but then they would persist beyond me and continue to utilize server resources.

I would imagine that if players were able to upload their favorite crafters, thralls, pets, and a limited number of items along with their character, they would be more inclined to hit a “Wipe All” button on the server they are abandoning. There are many players conscious of this and tools should be in place to encourage more responsible usage of server resources.