Just spitballing, but what if you could not loot at all on pvp. No bodies, no loot bags from destroyed chests/vaults/kills. Then the focus would be on actual combat and destruction only. You could still destroy chests, but it would be to weaken your enemy in resources. It would shut down most esp loot hackers. Yes they could still use hack for easy combat and bomb placement, but would gain absolutely nothing else. Would also force clans to farm and refarm lost loot. Would add a real cost of war. How much dp is worth picking a fight.
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I’ve been toying around with similar ideas in my head for a while now. I even had an idea of removing building and all PVE from the PVP scene entirely and you simply fight king of the hill style fights for premade forts and castles around the map, and holding one gives you several different benefits.
So instead of smacking rocks and killing NPCs for loot and upgrades, you just PVP. And things would be a bit more balanced since the only gear would be the gear you can make in the bases you have, or even use your solution and you don’t lose gear from dying.
Effectively PVP would work similarly to Planetside 2 if anyone’s played that.
I am kinda on the fence about my own idea and the one presented by the OP though. Even if they’re not mutually exclusive in this case.
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Yeah, my thinking is with building you could box in certain high farm rate areas. I have been toying with that idea for my map (which i hit a creative wall on). Allow building aroind a iron mine, or village with named thralls etc. Another great side effect is only your clan mates can loot the bags and your body. Plus farming would now be a requisite skill to build up.
Games are supposed to be fun. Losing all your stuff is not much fun.
Uhhh, you are losing it either way if the raiders offline you. My suggestion just keeps it from being scooped by enemy. Thus they have to way using dp just to raze an entire base. Pvp should be more about combat, not loot hot potato.
Giving this a bit more thought, I think it needs to be taken further in a direction.
In all the times I’ve raided someone, I’ve actually never done it for loot. Its always been because of one of two things. Either in retaliation to someone acting in a manner that we felt we needed to raid them for. Such as attacking a clanmate or building in an area we didn’t want them to or participating in a raid that is already in progress to see one side win over another. Or for some sort of RP reason on a PVP-RP server. Such as raiding a clan for slaves (player slaves for selling or for using for work, not thralls), enforcing tribute and protection rackets, or whatever reason.
Raiding for supplies is just a waste of time and usually results in massive drama in most cases. Now my time in raiding is entirely on servers with set guidelines for raiding. Offline raiding isn’t allowed. Usually some form of declaration is needed so that the one’s being raided have some chance to get some folks online (so its not 1v30). And under most cases you’re not raiding someone to the ground. Though in some cases (such as raiding to take a spot of land) you kind of have to.
Think about it like this. Why spend all this time getting stuff together to blow up some buildings, potentially have a fight on your hands (even if offlining, there is a chance one person may login, and then call the rest in), just to grab a bit of what? Alchemical Base, gold, silver, and maybe some swag chest/vault with legandaries or some thralls?
None of that requires raiding. None of that is easier to get by raiding in most cases. And most importantly, its not sustainable. Wipe someone down and take everything, and they’re out of there. You can’t come back in a few days and do it again.
So the purpose of raiding isn’t really to gain resources. Its not about the steal. The steal is just icing on the cake. You raid because you want to kick someone in the dick. But if you want to PVP outside of some silly duel in an arena. This is how you have to do it.
If the server has rules on how you raid, then you follow those rules, but at the end of the day. You’re raiding to send a message or as a display of your ability. But if its an open server (like FC PVP servers) then the amount of force you have to show to get the point across is usually apocalyptic.
When you can raid someone to the ground. But choose not to. The ones who were raided aren’t going to take it seriously. They’re not. If you break down a wall, steal some stuff out of a few chests. They’ll think they’ve repelled you. Because anything short of raiding them to sand, is a failed raid.
Think about that for a moment. If you play on one of these open PVP servers and you login. See a breached wall, and only a few things taken. Do you feel like you got hurt? Or do you laugh at the raiders who couldn’t get to your real treasure and think you’re hot stuff because you didn’t login to an empty plot? (for the sake of argument, on this subject in these two paragraphs, lets not go into the issues with offline raiding, since this can be applied to online raiding too).
What I am trying to say here is I don’t think that taking away the loot incentive would make a large enough impact to be noticed. People are still going to raid others into the dirt to either send a message, or to show their dominance on the server.
With how the game is now, (DBD on or not) and the culture behind PVP, that’s not going to change with some minor changes. And it sucks because I’m not posting this to shoot down the idea. Its not an idea coming from bad reasoning and its not one that I disagree with. I just hope some more people can give some insight and maybe throw some proverbial darts at the board so we can get a little more inspiration.
CE isn’t the only game suffering from this, so this is definitely not an issue that’s going to have an easy fix. But I think it can. We have games where people PVP all the time in. All competitive first person shooters, all MOBAS, and various other games utilizing either first person, third person, or both combat can do PVP as the entire game just fine.
Just writing this coupled with the idea I mentioned before kinda drives home the point. The biggest problem IMO with PVP and raiding is the amount of PVE the PVPers has to do. For every wall, every armor piece, every weapon, and every bomb you make… you have to PVE for. Clicking stone is PVE. Skinning dragons for leather and other materials is PVE. Getting legendaries or star metal is PVE. Knocking out thralls and wheeling them, only to have them follow to level up… again PVE.
All of those PVE actions have a ton of time and effort attached. So when you lose in PVP and have consequences, the consequences is losing that time and effort spent in PVE. And if you get soundly beaten or offlined, you tend to have NOTHING to show for it. In PVE when a boss kicks your ass you can have something you learn from it. That doesn’t always happen in PVP.
I think one of the ways forward for making raiding fun, and in general PVP servers more fun, is to take the PVE out of PVP. The million dollar question is obviously, how do we do that? Just something to consider.
I’m sure we lost a few players due to attempted wipes. They either take or drop all the loot. The frustration is knowing that just happened to one of us. Mek’s spire can get anybody up and going
again. Mild difficulty.
The wipe will always exist. What i am removing is the replacement bomb looting. This now makes it costly to raid. Most raiders favorite lootvis replacement bomb material. Thus wars will now have actual cost on both sides. Raiders lose dp, defendrrs lose building mats. War should be costly, even to the winner.
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I’m always trying to hide my dp and mats, but that doesn’t do anything for offline raids. Because they can take their time. With the extra dp found, they can blow up the rest of the base. 
At first I was thinking it wasn’t going to change a thing and just embrace the toxic that has taken over anyways. But that second point about costs. That has merit in the sense of the small raiders require gaining that DP back once inside. It won’t matter when alphas come down on folks but the smaller clans trying to climb up it certainly will affect.
The only thing I can question now is how much is that cost in functional terms? The 4X harvest rate makes it stupid easy to advance and stock up.
How about instead of no loot, only treasures can be looted? Gold, silver, placeable treasures. These are the only things that can be looted. Kits, chests, etc cannot. It still adds to the providing a actual point of raiding a base but its in a way that just isn’t that functional (except for alchem base components) and can provide methods that smaller clans can get status.
Also I think if we make treasures the means of how large your base and # of thralls you can have would do wonders for server health.
So the purpose of raiding isn’t really to gain resources.
For some , I think THEY THINK it is, as in the allure of POTENTIALLY getting some awesome loot, but most of the time in reality it’s not really.
Its not about the steal. The steal is just icing on the cake.
Again, for some THIS IS the reason, ie: just the thrill of it, to get in , and get out with something to show for it (even if its just a token amount)
You raid because you want to kick someone in the dick.
Can’t argue with that, lol
Perhaps it’s all a matter of Perceived loss Vs Perceived gain?
erjoh:
How about instead of no loot, only treasures can be looted? Gold, silver, placeable treasures. These are the only things that can be looted.
This could tie in with the treasure system they have just introduced, maybe just have them as the items you can loot or steal.
A leaf out of ‘Sea of Thieves’ maybe? No actual loot at all, other than cosmetics…
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I did a quick browse.
It seems to me it would be easier to modify the PVE-C type Server than the PVP type Server to accommodate some of the things being suggested here.
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Building damage is turned off on PVE-C.
We want building damage, but change the incentives around it.
I like that idea. Use the new treasure sysyem some. And when i mean no loot, i mean loot bags. So you can still scoop from open stations/dead bodies (and chests lol). Just not loot bags. It would also reduce stored data some. If destroy 20 chests, the loot instantly dissapears, no timer to decay. And tha 900 items is gone for good.
**side note on treasures, i wish some of the treasure gave off clan buffs in small areas. Like extra dmg%, health%, heal effectd. That would buff guards and make them have real game value for pvp and pve.
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