New dodges - please re-consider these changes

Conan Exiles General Discussion Feedback
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Im responding to multiple people and things said here, but I’m on phone so it’s hard to quote.

PvE is a joke anyways. This dodge change won’t change anything with PvE. People will still just bring thralls to solo bosses and kill everything, especially since thralls have been buffed

@JuanFra you said that the traditional dodge is the best of its kind. And yea you’re right. It allowed even a monkey to be near unkillable just by mashing roll in light armor and then jogging away to regain stam. Mobility was all that ever mattered

On another note, I agree that this new dodge is going to cause problems for PvP players. It seems like they designed it with 1v1 no thralls in mind. Gl trying to win ganks with this change.

Also, it seems to me that it’s truly only useless because of the hyper armor on all weapons. Like cool! We can skillfully use iframes to dodge attacks now!!! But you’re just going to keep mashing the attack button and combo us with hyperarmor because every weapon has hyperarmor and even if we dodge we can’t counterattack without trading oh ok.

The entire point of dodge up until now was to ESCAPE COMBOS. I like that they’re trying to make a change to combat, but this change isn’t supported by the nature of the weapons in the game. You can’t counterattack a weapon with hyperarmor. You’re still gonna be in the 2h mace light combo even if you roll, and you can’t knock them out of it. The mindgame of “do i counter attack and go for the trade or anticipate they stop the combo nd try to read their roll” is gone. It’s now just gonna be duking it out until someone runs away between combos.

I hope I’m not right, but objectively this is what it’s looking like

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The Dodges are different between armors, if you read the updates it tell you how they are different also, the dodge is now broken into two parts, the first part being the roll itself, all armors now roll the same speed, the difference is the second half, the point at which u get up and can attack, with light armor, your character stands and can attack much faster than in heavy armor, but heavy armor has the benefit of all that extra DEF to tank an extra hit if the dodge isn’t times right, so far in using it for PVE and PVP I’m liking the changes, but that’s just my personal opinion

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An area that people are forgetting when it come to the different tiers of armor (and mainly because it has been a while since a majority actually used heavy) is the impact on encumbrance. Sure i can wear HEavy. And if i put Bulk Plating on it, then i will have to carry less heals, weapons, etc as well as spend a few more points in agility, which impacts my carry weight even more. So yes, heavy may be the go to in a fight, but there are still some pluses to the lower wights.

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Over all I’m still of the mind this was an unneeded change.

I will stand by the statement of sweeping changes to mechanics and gameplay (especially for only -1- group of players) that already have counters in game as well as give the game a unique feel after they’ve been a part of the core game for so long is never a good idea.

It would have been less resource heavy and expensive to simply make the new med roll go to heavy and leave light as is. The way light armor is the roll is the only real advantage, 1-2 hits even from some normal mobs even in flawless you’re dead as the armor itself has been nerfed pretty bad at this point, and of course we have a ton of counters to people speed running/rolling away. Axes(constant stagger), bows etc.

and thank you everyone for keeping this thread going and for all the input whether for or against the changes.=)

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Thanks for the link!, I really hope funcom listens now that it’s out and people are testing it and still having the same or a worse opinion of things. I know some people still enjoy it, but personally I think it needs to be reverted still. The little wind up animation alone is an issue on multiple fronts, motion sickness included. ><

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Please DO NOT reconsider the changes. They are a massive step in the right direction. Intial acceleration is about 25% too slow, bit otherwise outstanding all round.

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If the right direction is making the game less fun, sure. The dodge mechanics may have looked too fast before, but they were fun, the new ones are just not fun, they have boring I-Frames in a slow roll that doesn’t go anywhere, feels like something from a game made 20 years ago.

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The more i play, the more i like the dodges. Timing means everything, and i stay engaged in the fight way more. Really the only real issue i see with the all the new animations, is the harvesting stop and pauses. that is very hiccup feeling.

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I hate this change, and find it asinine.
Right after that equally stupid weapon slow down.
These two things together practically fkd the gameplay up for me. There is barely anything fluent about it now. Was that the point? To make everything so telegraphed so as to not need to actually improve the infrastructure on your server ping and in the process bend pve and rp over and sideways?

I mean how backward can you get. Instead of buffing a said weapon you NERF all of them to its speed???

Who in the history of gaming ever did that? Seriously. You just made all the weapons in other words scale down to almost the same uselessness one of your worst weapons had. Clap… Clap… Clap…

Why the hell would I even want to play this game after 700+hrs and 5 DLC’s bought when you completely throw logic out the window for PvP balance? And all this I assume because some tart kids that can’t take losing in PvP kept whining. If PvP wasn’t for you then stop playing it. ffs.

There are a dozen ways you could balance/improve PvP, TAKE A HINT FROM SUGGESTIONS! I’m sure that if you did then you would of had many more and better ideas than this.

Sorry for the rant, but this is indeed asinine.

You give us a hardcore survival world (which btw I spend at least 20hrs alone balancing out NPC and Player damages in my server to figure out an even more hardcore and realistic approach, more damage outputs and more skill needed to survive) and made us useless. You’re so bloody slow even a pack of 3 hyenas is just a situation of turn around and run. No skill period whatsoever to try and dodge and block and fight your way around them. You’re so bloody slow they tear you to bits before you hit them once. The combat is USELESS!

As for the notion of realism… LOOOL.

  1. I can swing a sword faster than that, yeah, I have a one handed Greek/Roman sword, which is actually even heavier than normal 1 handed swords because its part fantasy in design and slightly heavier, and I DO NOT have bulging muscles the size of a cow. (edit: I also have a proper full scale authentic katana, and used several other swords from friends one handed and two handed… this is not realistic combat, this is slow motion after effects)

  2. You want to talk about realistic rolls?.. Here is an idea for people defending this with realism… NOBODY WOULD REALISTICALLY ROLL IN COMBAT unless they want to get their ■■■ chopped up.

With so many options, this was really what you came up with? You could of simply done a side dodge, and NOT A SIDE JUMP, side dodge, that being, a large step into a direction, the leg that goes into that direction being the first one off the ground as the other pushes, the animation of the character would naturally with that move make them go lower into a dodge as well. Not as low as a crouch, not as low as a roll either, but not as tall as a bloody jump that it was before. And most importantly of all, quick and dynamic.

You want realism? There is your realism. Who the bloody hell ever rolls if we are talking about realism, MUCH LESS WITH A WEAPON IN HAND that can easily stab them during a roll and in the process serve their behind for a beating?

Where is the dynamic combat in all of this? Everything I come up against (other than other players that are also struggling with these wonky as hell controls and also rolling around like idiots the same way I am) can dance circles around me 3 times over before I even do a single thing???

You guys really need to rethink this. Period. I had my time testing it and gave it the benefit of a doubt. It sucks. Plain and simple. Whichever way you go about. Including realism.

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I’m really disappointed in this. Seriously.

After all the feedback out there… this was the solution… I just can’t even.

I even wrote up an entire thread of how to make combat more dynamic. Instead what we get is clunky and wonky and unrealistic combat.

And when your behind is on the line, trust me, your reflexes are even faster. In real life I am saying.

This is just so wonky… Still playing mostly cause I just like to build stuff now. Thats about it. Just came up across a Demon Hyena. This is like the smallest kind of “mini boss” in the game. My blocks didnt stagger it, my attacks were not fast enough, the thing just went into a frenzy and started biting at me continuously while I am eventually stuck behind my shield like an idiot. I try to attack in one opening and I am 1 shot dead.

You can argue (and it would be true) the damage outputs on my server are too high if he one shot me at lvl 31 and 276 armour. And they are, they are at a total of 2.88x damage multiplier (1.6 damage taken generally, from jumps etc as well, and 1.8 NPC damage dealt).

And therein lies the dynamic aspect of survival the game had before. You were an inch away from death if you done something wrong, you needed good reflexes, and fast movement + attacks. Now I guess to make it fair again I have to drop everything down to a multiplier of 1 again cause we are that useless, and no hope in dynamically fighting anything. Just tank it away most of the time and heal away. Wow. Amazing.

The previous dodge was just enough to relocate and get a hit in. Now, its pointless. Yes, I can dodge, and they can just as fast or faster still continue attacking my new position. All I managed to do was change the location I was stuck in.

And while I am ranting, how about you fix your bloody spawning in solo games as well. NPC’s DONT SPAWN. And no, its not a mod thing. I took all mods off and the same crap persists.

Looooooving these last few patches guys… Loooooooooving them. /s

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I had the same issue. I didn’t have a single NPC on my map after the update. Even restarted the game for 2 times but nothing changed. I’m playing on PS4 so obviously no mods

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Yeah I thought at first it had to do with the “day cycle: catch up time” since I kinda spawned some npcs after I put it back to normal. Then I realised that it was still not working. What happens is that there is some weird priority for spawning? Or something like that. A region of camps spawned nothing for me, one specific camp though (Scavengers Berth) close by, always had the NPC’s spawned. Upon going to that location then walking back the Darfari camps previously stuck for days now had NPC’s.

I tried this like 10 times to see if its consistent. Sure enough. If I don’t go to that location, or something like an NPC capital or some very specific smaller camps, they never spawn.

It needs more testing, but the places I am sure off the top of my head where all the Dafari camps around the Desert river. That one location I mentioned was the only one that spawned.

Sure is immersion breaking running around empty camps and worse still running to the one camp that does spawn so you can have spawns in the other areas too. LOL.

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It is wonderful to see that I am not the only one who is intensely frustrated by the new dodging mechanics.

Personally, I am of the opinion that Funcom overreacted to one or two cowards that used dodge to run away. Just like when they tried to delete Steam Family Sharing to stop people from circumventing bans, without considering that it was the only way for legitimate players to make an alt character because the company refuses to put in an option for creating alts the normal way.

You have my unconditional support and my upvote, battle brother.

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Yeah I figured it out. Bravo Sierra is a common term used on TV.
Guess Im just a little tea pot short and stout.
Sorry if I offended any lifeforms, thats just the way some humans are.

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I loved these changes because it brings us a little closer to realism. No gladiator with armor, sword and shield leaps like frogs, light as a gazelle. The gravity effect is great for me and I’ve been winning my battles like before, or better, as this improves my fighter skills.
Going back to the previous battle form will make me very sad!:desapontado:

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Although I agree the previous jump was silly (hence why i have proposed a hundred times an actual side step dodge, not a silly jump) the fact that you think the roll is more realistic is beyond me… Have u ever tried rolling during combat reenactment? Especially in armour? Especially with a weapon in hand??? That is farther from realism than even the silly jump was before.

This is a bad choice for heavy armours.

I just found a mod that reverted the attack animations and speeds at least for swords and two handed swords back to what they used to be.

And at least they have made some improvements to the system since last time I gave my feedback, and agility speeds up the dodge and also gives you x2 armour at the 40 mark perk. Medium armours are starting to feel like they did before, but not as unrealistic. The old roll was big enough to change area codes.

So… I’ll live I guess.

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Light armor users should get the old dodge brought back to them (I’m a heavy armor user) but let them be more easy to stagger and stun

Medium armor users should have half of the old dodges length, and be slightly harder to stagger and stun

Heavy armor users should either keep the new short dodge or get the jump back dodge returned and be able to fight thru more stagger and stunning hits

Also all the 3 armor types should have altered running speeds from what they currently are, a light armor user should be able to outrun me while I’m wearing heavy armor no matter how much more grit i have, let them use their speed to counter us heavy armor users.

Imo i should never be able to outpace a person in light leather armor while wearing my full champion set.

But if he turns to fight he should have to use that speed and maneuverability to win against the heavy armor user while we absorb more damage and tank thru more stagger

Also wearing one piece of heavy armor with a full light armor set should change your armor class to medium not heavy

The guy above mentioned a side dodge to which is a pretty good idea as well if it could be implemented correctly

Opinions?

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Real-life fact: sword tip moves faster than human body. Dodging a sword blow is very difficult. Rolling on the ground is an invitation to stab you dead. That’s why putting an object between you and the incoming blow, such as a shield or your own weapon, tends to be the defensive method of choice in most armed martial arts.

Game fact: there’s no blocking/parrying feature with weapons. Dodging is a dynamic game mechanic that looks “cinematic”, and it’s probably easier to program than parrying with weapons.

Real-life fact: armor makes you basically immune to swords. But throughout my 30+ years of gaming history I’ve encountered only one game that actually gets this right. Because Conan Exiles is not that game, there needs to be another way to prevent incoming damage. Hence, dodge-rolling. At least it’s not Matrix-style bullet-dodging.

I’m afraid realism was never on the table when this game was being designed. Neither was it on the table when Robert E. Howard first created the character and his Hyborian Age world.

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Exactly. My point precisely. That is what I was saying to the person I responded to… I have no idea why its not showing.

I mean if we are going for realism, like you said proper armour is immune to cuts, meanwhile the hyperborean slaver armour is NOT heavy armour by any stretch of imagination :rofl:

Along with so many other things.

Rolling? Really? Some people are seeing this as more realistic? LOL… Meanwhile sidestepping can also look cool, last I checked Henry Cavil looked just fine doing it in the Witcher and it was cinematic enough.

Sure for cinematic like purposes everything is slightly altered and exaggerated, for example weapons are not as heavy as they look in games where they feel like a ton of bricks to swing around, they are light, whilst telegraphing hits is not something anybody does in real combat, but also it doesnt look as cool as a big savage swing.

As far as realism never being on the table. I agree on all else, but whole heatedly disagree with that. I believe what you mean to say is that simulation was not on the table. Realism, absolutely was. Otherwise hammers could cut and swords would bruise and donkeys would fly. Every single part is based on realism.

The thing is, how far from it you stretch to create your fantasy world whilst also being believable, and for a game how you implement things that mimic reality which for obvious reasons are an even further stretch from reality as they resemble something as opposed to literally doing it (like building a wall in seconds, lol).

Its all about striking a balance and setting the rules in your world that make things feel believable and at the same time unbelievable (in the good sense) to further stretch your imagination. Rolling, I would be ok with, and never argued its cinematic appeal. Only reason I am arguing against it now is because instead adding a sidestep to the heavy armours (no roll, or no silly hop) they added a roll there too which is ridiculously slow and cumbersome. The whole speed of it is useless unless you get agility up (a change that was not initially there if my memory serves me well)…

TL:DR-
I am ok with less realism. I am ok with the roll. I am not ok with its speed. I am not ok with it being used for heavy armour. And when I hear anyone say “its more realistic” to defend it because its speed actually does resemble more realism, I will continue to tear that fallacy down by proving that if realism is what they are going for, this is overall less real and nobody in their right mind would ever roll during combat.

p.s. Sorry, but I kinda detest the whole “its a game, its not meant to be realistic” argument. Well then, lets throw caution to the wind and have legs for a head and tails for hands. Cause… why not right? :laughing: The idea is to have a balance of mechanics. And that is why I am not complaining over the roll as a roll in its own, otherwise I would have done that before the patch when our light armour used to let us roll three blocks to the left and right. lol.