Pay 2 Win Content

Conan Exiles General Discussion
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Interesting huh?

The breath of the red mother is a legendary that can’t be crafted that is subject to RNG drop rate.

I’ve only farmed 1 in my entire 7k hours. Granted I don’t go there super often. My friend used to farm for us like a machine and rarely got it though. Clan and I always deferred to him keeping it as he worked hard for the clan.

So yes, it is available in base game; absolutely way more valuable… but hard to obtain.

Whereas, as you’ve pointed out, the relic hunter torch has double the time compared to the in game equivalents and can be made on spawn.

(And sorry I missed the part where you wrote that it was crafted, been a long week!)

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We play the game too long before we met the relic hunter torches. So not carrying with you 2 or 3 pieces of wood and 10 to 15 fiber it’s not smart, especially when you start the game. The only reason i don’t use glowing torch is because i have to carry with me bones and glowing coop too, no give me a break :rofl:. I do understand what relic hunter torch gives as an advantage, but it’s not pay to win, nothing like it my friend. Always a pleasure my friend :hugs:!

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One thing this one notices is a particular flavour of malicious incompetence.

Many assets added to the game are developed with little thought for how they will impact PvP.
If the expectation is that the devs have no grasp of how PvP actually works, it becomes something of an ablative excuse.
The adage to not ascribe to malicious what is just as easily explained with incompetence.
However, after how long does maintaining ignorance and lack of capability, in a professional capacity, become malice?

There was a devstream some years ago where there was the notation, when asked how sorcery would impact PvP, that they would see. That same sort of chuckle and shrug one might notice whenever they are adding something to the game no one asked for that they know will be unpopular.

That is when this one realized that the devs for this game don’t actually give a fig about the PvP player base. Nor do they care how their decisions will impact that game mode. It’s not ignorance, not exactly. It’s apathy. It is the decision to not care.
In the Age of War, especially with the inventory UI enshittification, the rest of the player base got to taste what PvP has felt for some time.

But this wasn’t a bonding moment.
No, misery makes everyone grumpy and we get into this sorta pathetic who has it worst competition.
It’s like oppression Olympics, but for who is the most shat upon of players.

There is a truth, quite unfortunate in this one’s opinion, but it is what it is… PvP in this game is about finding the whatever meta has negligently been coded into existence and take every possible advantage of it until the next patch blunders it’s way into a different meta.
It’s true in duels
It’s true in raids

What is Pay 2 Win?
How far into Pay for Advantage does it need to go?
This one has a fairly high tolerance for many things (blood Crystal “Chakrams” and relic hunter torches… Those aren’t going to decide anything of merit) but others (specific shapes and styles of roofs specifically coupled with a bomber only meta) this one notes can definitely have bite and be very well utilized.

All other things equal, a longer lasting torch is irrelevant.
All other things equal, ablative structures that resist explosive placement can decide a raid and based on material cost can decide a long term conflict.

Mind you, all of that pales compared to undermesh bases and flying bases, to name a couple other issues that have been allowed to linger for so long they are features, not bugs.

And that’s the state of PvP
Which is a shame, because it could have been quite engaging.
As of Chapter 4 Age of War, even without the advantageous options mentioned before, it’s sad and stale. You will raid with bombs. That is all. Nothing else is relevant (ability to levitate castles aside).
You will duel with the mad lumberjack style. Because poke and roll got turned off.

But that’s the game, expecting otherwise by this interval is in the fool this one twice shame on this one zone.

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Don’t get me wrong, I totally agree, that the balance for items is off, but that does not only affect BP or Bazaar items. For me it is more a sign of balancing incompetence rather than p2win mechanics.
Concerning the torch. I still think it is a bad example, as a longer burn time with so little material requirements, doesn’t give you a big advantage, especially as the free low level torches also last through a whole night.
I only play pve-c, so i might not feel certain things, like the bombproof ceilings.
On scarcity, i took a break from the game and restarted a year ago, in that time i got 8 of those torches without extensive farming of the red mother, so rare yes, very rare, no

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I don’t know if it’s sad or funny what FC does.
But it’s undeniably fascinating.

They could simply solve such problems by adding building pieces of same shape and stats to already existing building sets.

They wouldn’t even have to do that for ALL building sets. Just for ONE to keep everyone’s mouth shut. Like that ugly reinforced stone T3 building set al‘merayah is made of.
It’s part of the base game. :man_shrugging:
Would also be lazy to some degree if they would do that only for this one particular building set, only to silence the complaints.
But FC doesn’t even do that.

They’re even too lazy for being lazy at this stage.
They simply don’t care.

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Even as one who generally speaking does not PvP, if you approach a topic with a view point free of prejudice and then apply logical reasoning you can easily begin to see how such things can, and do, effect PvP. However, the same should also be applied the other way around as it is often forgotten how the requests to “fix pvp” effect everyone else as well. :wink:

I feel that most of what goes on is this in general. Misinterpretations, misunderstandings and an unwillingness to look at things from the others perspective. It is not always easy, but it would help a lot! I know you often try hard to do so, as do many others, but there are a lot of people who never make any effort at all.

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I’m not even close to being knowledgeable about programming and I won’t ever pretend something is easy, especially when I have never done it or understand it.

I have to wonder though, where is the consistent SOP and workflow? There must be a master database that at least can be referenced manually or scripted for “Type A requires Value X” stuff right? I would hope so, that’s just for HP related values of course. Running into things like meshes can make things a bit more complicated in that realm but should be addressed from the start to avoid problems in the future… I’m just talking into the ether at this point, anyway.

That’s just so tough. I’ve oft commented on feeling like they’re understaffed and there’s been a lot of movement over the years. Projects changing hands without the benefit of a deeper understanding of the code is common from what some of our fellow forum members that are specialized have explained. Like having a messy room, you know where everything is, it’s in the right spot. But then your sister wants a specific thing but they can’t find it lol

So let’s say that is what is really happening… so is the master files’ pathway is screwed OR are they doing manual inputs? Or is it truly malicious… Or maybe I am talking out my ass?

Either way we see the result.

Being ignored almost every opportunity given and I am not the only one is a sure sign of that apathy. When we do see some communication it is in small snippets or in other places that don’t really make complete sense. I recall a certain previously popular content creator (they can very much be representatives) and how they went apoplectic when asked about their opinion on report meta. Or the reports from Zendesk staff that advised the complainant to go to PVE instead. Etc.,… etc.,…

When anyone points out something that might need some attention sure, it can be a thought to be considered but doesn’t necessarily need a change. But when we have people coming here of all places and the same issues keep on being brought up and in greater volume there needs to be some kind of communication. The ratio of PVP vs. PVE is considerable. How many PVPers are actually here? We get to know each other over time but not as many as PVE. If the volume of PVP complaints are similar though…

Anyway, if they simply told us to FO. Fine. That at least would be better than crickets - then change this and that and everything else and slap an approved sticker on it, high five and go on vacation…

I kind of agree here even though I would have hoped it was. There’s some like @Oduda, @UNfun, @RagnarRandom and E.y that have our backs. (Sorry I’m only allowed to tag 3 people :confused: )

Our carefully chosen and crafted gameplay experiences vary so much. It’s even in PVP. At least some can cut through all the vitriol to find some common understanding.

Recently the change to bomb placement distance for one. It has affected PVE in that building has become an exercise in micromanagement of space. I honestly thought that the change to bomb placement distance way back was to address almost or actual unraidable hanging bases. Wrong. It was because they tied everything to the placement of the build hammer - even placeables not rigged to it. Then changing it back caused the building distance to be affected instead of unchaining it all… how was this EVER a good idea?

So in some ways ya I agree that they don’t give PVP it’s due diligence but when they do something that is seemingly to “benefit” PVP, they also enshittify PVE in return. So then everyone starts gnashing their teeth at each other. Easier to let us players blame each other, no?

True. But I think it’s more of a commentary on the inconsistencies present, the idea of integrity and the promises that have been broken. Not so much that an extra 20 on a torch is game breaking.

The FOMO then sets in. Even for BP. “I didn’t have the BP back then but maybe if I buy it now I’ll get a similar torch”.

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Black ice and reinforced stone are almost identical except for temperature difference and artwork. It seems the taking the models of the pyramid top and nemedian rooftop cap (and various others - looking at you super fat pyramid pillar that is also used in PVP as an advantage) and throwing them into the build sets in base game and changing the artwork might be simple enough. Repurposing assets - truly reskinning XD

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I haven’t thanked you yet for treating me with common decency and respect. So thank you. I also feel the same in regard to you. I like your no BS attitude and sometimes you step in and just say what has to be said even when it’s something I don’t necessarily agree with.

The fact is that there really isn’t too many multi-disciplined players for modes. I would suggest most stick with a mode and become comfortable in it. So when a completely foreign aspect of the game comes forth and breaks the possibility of the comfort they have enjoyed, it can be jarring. Sort of like never having seen a tool and it being presented to you and you’re not sure what it does. If you try to use reasoning, it could be and is often a very incorrect analysis - type thing. So it’s like when we mention that tool does B and results in 2+3 because A did 1, it doesn’t make much sense. Becomes irrelevant.

I’ve been on a PVE server recently. Some discussions have gone to PVP as we’ve all started to get to know each other on the server (I love that) and I’ve been answering questions. They’re either completely offput or like the idea of it but are afraid.

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:blush: There is no need to thank me for that.

I suppose I had not done so either, so I really aught to. Thank you @Kikigirl :grin:

Well I’m from Jersey so yeah, I am blunt and to the point most of the time. And I don’t take BS from people. :rofl: Sometimes it gets me put into time out. :shushing_face: But I don’t regret telling those people who deserve to be told off. :stuck_out_tongue: And sometimes you need to be a little harsh up from to get someone to see that they themselves are being rather harsh, but then you can have a reasonable discussion with them afterwards! It works out more than you would think!

Yeah I don’t disagree with this. If people spend all of their time in only one mode they tend to see things with blinders on and become unable to see anything outside of that point of view. It is not exactly their fault, as in they are not doing it on purpose. Well, some probably are. :rofl: But most aren’t. They just cannot relate to the other point of view because they have blinded themselves to said point of view and can no longer see it. But if they just take the time and effort to read, listen and learn and see how it applies then they can form a more informed opinion of the subject and then express how yes, that does effect mode A this way but it will also effect mode B this way, which the players of mode A might not have realized because they themselves were blind to. This is the only real way to get constructive discourse going so we can build towards suggesting real changes to the devs that will improve things for everyone, which should be the ultimate goal. A better game for everyone!

That sounds awesome! Even if none of them ever try it out, at least they will have a better understanding of how PvP works and what it is all about! If I knew what server it was I’d join up and so I could learn some more. :smiley:

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I went back and forth in my head over whether or not to even write another reply, half the reason I deleted my old forum account years ago was because every single thread that is even tangentially related to PVP gets derailed by people with absolutely nothing to add who, nevertheless, pretend PVP’ers are the real toxic ones. To my surprise, ages later, the same thing is happening - with even some of the same people involved! I suspect more than a few conan enthusiasts really are trapped in a version of the exiled lands, time stands still with this game. Same people on every server, same cheaters, same people on the forums. Depressing.

In any case, I’ve got a strong feeling a lot of people commenting in this thread aren’t even aware of what the problem is in the original post. Pyramid caps, like many pointy bazaar pieces, have collision that makes it impossible to place explosives on them. Many of the DLC/Bazaar gates and building pieces are similar. Without being able to bomb a base, raiding can be exponentially harder. If you’re forced into using arrows, it’s easier for a defender to repair as well.

This isn’t to mention the many new DLC/Bazaar items that can be overlapped to produce honeycombing with over 800k health per foundation space, considerably more than default methods.

Additionally, unless this has changed (I haven’t played in a long time, I’ve finally broken free from cleetus…) you’re not able to loot bazaar items from other players, even if it’s gear. Some bazaar items have launched with unreal damage levels compared to base items.

Imagine then, 2 clans are fighting - one with mommy’s credit card, one with default setups. Identical numbers, strength, skill, etc… even identical bases. In open world pvp, often clans will fight until one side runs out of gear to fight with. Except, one side can’t lose their gear because it’s mostly bazaar items, and those bazaar items hit harder. Naturally, by attrition, the team that doesn’t pay real money will inevitably lose.

So the team that doesn’t pay has to back off and lick their wounds. They decide maybe they can get some of their gear back with a cheeky raid, except they show up with bombs and guess what - the entire base is bolstered with bazaar honeycomb and caps that can’t have bombs on them. So, their base is just functionally harder to raid, and if you find an angle it’s gonna be more expensive, slower and risky.

Torch durability aside, can people see the issue? It’s like playing against a toddler, “y-you’re not allowed to take my gear… but I can take yours! Oh and my spear does a hundred damage! And no bombs on my base, that’s toxic! OH and also my base has like a BAJILLION health because mommy’s credit card says so!!!111!!!”. It’s kind of a problem.

That said, I almost wish I could post without bumping the thread, since it’s a moot point anyhow. Nothing will change, so the thread will just go in circles even if it does somehow stay on topic.

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I’m gonna mark this as “the solution” because this rounds up the topic pretty well.

Thank you @Ceronesthes !

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Even when the problem is explained it doesn’t matter. Just get treated like crap and gaslit.

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Thank you for the reply but let me object in some points please!
The reason you deleted your previous account is because you were stubborn my friend no other.
Then believing that people over half century in life still uses mommy’s credit card is silly, isn’t it? Stop seeing others like children ir objects and start seeing them like true adults that play a game and speak about… A game!
Then again , not all the pvp players play to loot others. Because this is the mentality of some or many , this doesn’t mean that this is the mentality of all.
People tend to believe that official pvp is the only pvp this game has and this is wrong by definition.
I do agree about “pointy hats” and explosive difficulty, but i didn’t see them stopping you ever.
I do respect however that the inability of looting others gear, even if you cannot use it is wrong. Yet i am not convinced that a 40 minute torch is either game breaking either pay to win. The worst part that will happen after this conversation is that this torch will end up being similar to others or even worst. Because my friend, unfortunately, Funcom does the same mistake over and over again. Nerf to the ground bazzar and bp items showing the middle finger to the most supportive costumers!
Another point that’s sad with the new system affects pve as well my friend. Let me explain how.
When this game started i was buying dlcs on my sons account. On PlayStation the console “owns” the dlcs so each user of this console can use them. When bp and bazaar startedy son had a really full program reading for the stupid education system my country has, melting these kids to the ground, not allowing them to live the best years if their life and make them spend their time reading non stop.
Anyway, i find it logical to start buying bp to my account now, since i was the one with free time and not my 17 year old son (sad).
My son loves a couple of things, the blue horse for example. Well now that his national exams finished, his daddy’s credit card bought him Crom coins, yet i don’t know when Funcom will ever decide to give to this poor boy this freaking horse with this rotation system. Or the (useless) colossal snake.
So please don’t assume that people who don’t fully support your saying, are minors or don’t respect your opinions. They do, but they have their own as well and the least they expect is a similar respect, nothing else, after all it’s a game m8.
Sad and unfortunate you’re not happy anymore with the game, i really enjoyed your sessions :metal:.
@Kikigirl nobody ever treated you like gal or crap, why you even mention it i cannot tell.
For what is worth, yes you are stubborn like Cero, but i never had the chance to see you play. If i was on pc, i would give my right arm to play with you guys.
Cheers!

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I respect you very much my friend.

However, this is a problem which Cero has explained succinctly. Any time PVP issues are brought up they’re attempted to be silenced. There’s varying reasons for it but largely because PVP is not viewed as in a positive light and is inconsequential.

This very post is proof of that and the subsequent comments of ignoring the true intent of the topic in favour of pointing out other possible flaws instead because of “fatigue” of the subject. And ultimately not caring because it is PVP.

I can guarantee if you went back to PVP and attempted to raid a base with these you’d then understand the glaring inconsistency. Building in PVP can be just as much an artform as building in PVE except with different end goals. You can be very creative in using advantageous pieces to ensure either slowing down a raid or outright stopping it with purchased content < - this is why it’s being called P2W. It’s not used to make bases look pretty or a preferred theme; the purpose of the each individual purchase and use is to largely prevent bombs being placed because there are issues with the collision mesh. It is a widely known fact in the PVP community that many BLB/BP/Twitch drop items have some kind of unfair advantage.

So it’s technically an exploit. But it’s being dismissed because it’s not important to everyone else and Funcom needs to make money? < - this is the message we’re getting from others.

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The problem is that people in here my dear friend tend to enjoy fighting each other for absolute nonsense, try to pick fights by quoting words and change meanings, than trying to communicate and provide correct feedback. Then again there are people with low experience in the game exaggerating to almost everything. This combination creates fights not conversations and the outcome is often against players. It’s sad that people after all these years believe that pvp and pve are different worlds with different citizens.
No they are not!
Then again the war between official gaming and private… Omg!
Not to mention the latest fight between discord and forum… Sad!
After all these years and all this experience sister you must go and sit where you belong, to the elders chair no matter if you’re still a young flower. “Elders” share opinions and even if they are different, these opinions have basis. They don’t use ego just common sense. A different prospective! You are not above me neither bellow me, we are equal!
It doesn’t matter if i play pvp now or if you think that i don’t you cannot really know. But pvp for me was always different from others. I don’t “cry” for sticks and stones i lost, after all i joined to this game to loose and spawn in desert. Domination in this game is absolute boredom undeniably from pve to pvp, at least for me. I play the game to engage and laugh. I play pvp to feel my heartbeat on my t shirt and sweat on my palms. These feelings pve cannot give in normal sessions at least :laughing:.
If i ever made you feel that your opinions do are not respected from me i apologize. But please don’t feel this way and above all don’t ever believe that i am here on Funcom side and not the player side. Because these sides do exist and are the only correct and true sides! But these are the only sides, all the rest are useless!
All the rest sides that we, the payers players create, are the sides that create this confusion and wrong feelings.
Stop feeding them sister, i don’t years now and i observe and reply respecting every single opinion. Agree or disagree is irrelevant, respect is obligation from my side!

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Just a small aside on the meta-commentary.

Asking a Duelist to put aside personal grievance may not be as reasonable as asking a Stonemason or a Civic Planner.

It is not universal, but one may find that those who willing step into the battle pit for recreation are more ready for a fight, than to avoid it. Asking a Boxer to be above fisticuffs is paradoxical.

Mind you, this one’s horse in this race is currently dead. The telekinetic ied style of raiding is this one’s least favoured. Yet it is the only game in town.
Thus anything that previously might been shrugged off (so it can’t be be bombed, god stomp it) can no longer be ignored or hand waved.
But this one rambles in circles.

The joy of PvP in this game ended for this one, and with it, their participation on any meaningful level. The prey is thin and meager. The only hunting method remaining, other than what this one enjoys. This one is saddened that the joy is also dying in other eyes. But for those who still want a fight, some want a clean fight, and that’s understandable.
Sadly, it has been proven that such an expectation is unrealistic.
But as a 'Murikan, this one always sympathizes with those who rage against disparity and injustice, regardless of how doomed the cause.

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Indeed that should be the goal. Constructive and polite feedback is very important. I’ve had so many issues trying to do this though… the OP is neither here nor there. There is some interpretation that can be gleaned from it. I saw through it all immediately because I know what was being shown. Fact is, so did some others that commented before me and was admitted to be so.

Very true. We’re all players and I’d say that most of us love the game. I personally want the game to succeed and be there for me, friends and the community at large.

These are multi-faceted issues with all kinds of talking points. It is worth mentioning that when problems are brought up they don’t always come from nothing though.

No but I know you used too ^^ So you have at least some basis of understanding of what PVPers are talking about.

I’m not a hardcore/high PVPer and never have been. I’ll get my hands dirty in team fights and will go out as I don’t have gear fear. Probably a little over half the time I lose because my skills are not in combat, they’re in everything else. Sometimes I survive. But it’s all exhilarating! So being my skills are in everything else - I tend to be the godder and bomber on top of being Base Mom. I love the aspect of understanding how and why people build, why they put that piece here or there, why they’re frantically placing a SPECIFIC piece trying to stop me and I get all these on-the-fly realizations.

Like the time I first encountered the pyramid caps and I was frantically trying to place down bombs to cut off a particularly important room and couldn’t. I get your point in that you can still bypass it in some circumstances as I did (I’m crafty and relentless); but if these pieces were regular rooftop caps then it wouldn’t have caused the problem I experienced. These have been used in ways that have stopped raids entirely. Not getting killed off and all bombs looted or any other respectable defence. Using exploitable pieces that are ONLY available via purchase.

As promised and requested since, simply ensuring that any purchased content meet minimum standards and base game equivalents are offered is the solution.

Until then (or even if that happens), remember that new players might come here and read these exchanges. If they see certain comments they may believe them to be true if there’s nothing to correct or provide a different informed viewpoint.

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My dearest Po (Pauline) had this role :cry:. I miss her sooo much. She was so smart, so intelligent and so patient. I learned from her a lot. She was the only female on our clan so in my eyes she was our little queen to protect. Predatory blade was for her combinated with shield. We spend hours training her how to do damage but above all stay alive. When lower lvls were ambushed her she was bringing them down with the predatory blade cutting them like butter. Combat in this game is taking the right decisions on specific times and stay as cool as possible. If your “hands are shaking” find a window and escape. In times fleeing is better than bravery.
And trust me i know that no matter the language here, people loved this game more than anything else.
In topic now i want the community to understand each other and devs find the way to keep all the modes happy. So far the tactics devs followed brought fights between people who play different modes.
There’s some suggestions from my side…
The building community loves different shapes. But when different shapes appear should have low hp so it won’t be difficult for pvp to break them.
Bp and bazzar items must be shared like dlc items. If Funcom insist not to, then allow pvp to loot them and dismantle or toss them away.
For gods sake give us back a greater capacity on arcane cupboards. Such wonderful pieces with so much space to cover should have greater inventory. It’s not game breaking neither pay to win as long as devs make it look like not pay to win.
Because i believe that the whole problem starts from the conveniences some items bring. If these conveniences are game breaking then people have right to complain. Vanilla should and stay equal and in cases stronger than dlcs, bp, bazaar and twitch!

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Funcom just needs to set up BLB and BP gear like DLC. Making it useful to steal in PvP. The ridiculous Funcom Live Service check on gear is annoying.

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