What if each clan (including solos) were allowed one vault, and vaults were indestructible? Immune to all tiers of weapons. Problems this might help with:
PVP is too punishing and people can’t be bothered grinding just to lose it all
Vault spam
Body vaulting
It limits the amount of loot a clan can store indefinitely
Less reason to wipe someone’s entire base. You know you can’t get their best stuff anyway, so PVP raiding loop is faster with less consequences
Harder to server hop with loot because you can only safely store one vault-worth per clan
Problems it might cause:
Clans could never take another’s land if the vault was placed there. Whoever gets the good spot first keeps it for as long as they refresh
You know you can’t get their best stuff anyway, so PVP raiding loop is faster with less consequences (some people might not like this)
It limits the amount of loot a clan can store indefinitely (again, some people might see this as a problem)
The reason I say a clan gets one vault and a solo gets one vault is that it goes some way to redressing the power imbalance between them without tipping it. Clans will still be way more powerful, as they should be. It just means everyone has to Marie Kondo their loot. Only keep what brings you joy (or your enemies pain).
This would lead clans into distributing all valuables before raidtime to their alts which are solos. Which means in your scenario a clan of ten people could put up to 11 vaults which are not destructible. This means not only 11 permanent landclamings but also 11 indestructable vaults. Enough to store multiple bases away.
Although it’s not easy to think of any change to the game that couldn’t be exploited by alt accounts. It’s one of those problems that seems impossible to solve. What if only clans could have a (single) vault? Not solos.
Anyway, I guess it’s a moot point. No matter what the game intends, anyone who really cares about winning that much and is unscrupulous enough will just make enough bodyvaults to store however much they want. Even if there was a bank with no presence on the server, people would just make alts to have a bunch of different accounts at the bank. Like low-level gangsters laundering money for their bosses.
So, in my experience people are rarely really defending their base in doing real pvp not just placing thralls in front of the base. How is that supposed to be if they know their loot is safe anyways? It would literally kill pvp even more since so many people on official servers refuse to really fight already.
Why border farming bombs and arrows if you won’t get anything useful out of a base?
And how would it help against body vaults? It would literally be worse than body vaults giving big clans the possibility to store everything safely instead of bodies you can just loot if you find them. (Yes, it’s actually possible to find the body vaults if you improve your scouting)
They have introduced a system which helps against offline raiding. They just need to tweak the existing feature instead of bringing something which is literally anti pvp.
Everyone already has everything they need by late game, especially in a big clan - there’s no reason to raid people as it is. It’s a problem with PVP in this game. Come on, no-one really raids for loot.
the idea is it takes away the incentive. Of course toxic people are gonna be toxic. But maybe more of the regular players wouldn’t bother making alts and bodyvaulting if they had a guaranteed safe place to store a bit of their loot.
With the current state of officials and the possibility to transfer every time the server dies out acutally more people do raid for loot because its an easy way to stock back up since you only can bring a limited amount of stuff. If i cant bring all the thralls and building mats i need do you think ill go and farm them? ill just bring my dragonpowder and get them the easier and faster way. I dont know on what kind of servers you play but i switched between like 5 servers the last month and theres alot of raiding for materials going on. Ofc if you have a main base on the 15 people server and you played there together with them for the last year theres not alot of raiding cause everyone is just sitting in their bases full with stuff they dont need but to scared to move somewhere where you acutally have to pvp and build up again.
People like to horde their belongings even though they have loads of it. If you give them the possibility to store it safely without anyone ever getting it by just abusing the system with their 5 clan members instead of a vunerable body believe me they will take it. Everyone will take it and everything will be full with vaults no one can access. Its just a horrible idea on so many levels not well thought though at all because all the points you brought up as positive can and will be taken advantage of in a worse way than it is right now.
The sad thing is, most raid for the loot. And the more bombs they spent on a base, the more toxic they get if there is none, because they think they “deserve” the loot. And if there is none, because the owner was smart, the ego can´t handle it. Its not so much that the loot is physically needed for anything, its an psychological thing. The loot stands for establishing dominance over others.
Already very small children show this behaviour in RL when they want the toy the sibbling is currently playing with and try to take it away. If they can´t they get angry, start screaming and crying. But some just accept it and move on. It depends on the personality of the child and how the environment acts. In RL we learn pretty much early on that we do not always get what we want. Partents and society are setting the boundaries. We can move freely inside this boundaries but if we cross the line there will be consequences. Humans can not live together without having some kind of “rules”. But not always this “rules” make sense to us or are beeing of an constant nature.
As children its easier to accept boundaries, even if we try to max them out to see the reaction of our environment, because our view of the world is just simple and colorfull. But the more we grow up the more our worldview is changing. We get influenced not only by our society but also others, the environment we constantly live in and the experiences we make over time with others humans. We learn that boundaries can be stretched very far if we have the ability to lie, manipulate or persuade people. We learn that money and influence are very powerfull tools.
And now combine all this and give us the internet. A space where most of the world comes together, where you can easily pretend to be someone else. Where humans feel there are less rules and control instances. And hell breaks loose.
Agreed, but your concern of exploiting the idea of the special vault as stashing unraidable loot applies to a current pvp meta way of do8ng it. So it is tied to the topic.
My take…without the risk of loss, there is no reason to play PVP. PVP in this game isn’t battle royale and having a secured method turns it into that type of game. Measures that prevent the complete anhilation of a clan is just some mix of PVP and PVE-C.
If I wanted to play it safe, I would play PvE. Take out the body vaulting and let characters decay like thralls.
So what I’m hearing is that giving people an in-game way to guarantee the safety of some of their loot won’t take away the incentive to hoard and transfer loot between servers and multiple accounts. Nothing will change, because adults now are apparently dumb toddlers. It’s not about the thrill of the fight or the loot being useful, it’s just about taking it and having it, my preciousss. Got it.
I play on one official server at a time, and I’ve played on four in the last year. I’m not in a clan and I don’t communicate much with other players, I just see them coming and going. Maybe they’re raiding because they need loot, but I assumed they were raiding because… you know… it’s PVP. I haven’t been raided or raided anyone for ages but people fight me when they see me which is fun.
Ha! Well in my defence, I’m an ideas person not a detail-oriented person This is why I put these ideas on a forum. So other people can have input.
Look if that’s really what most players are like, then that IS sad. I know there are a few toxics everywhere. But here I am thinking we’re mostly a bunch of grown ups playing a game to chill and have fun. Guess the joke’s on me.
In principle I agree with you. But do you really think the way people are playing PVP at the moment is how it was intended, or what most people would expect it to be like if they were thinking of playing? This combo of transfers, alt accounts and bodyvaults has created a perfect storm, as you put it in your other thread. Clans with literally (potentially) infinite resources offline-raiding across servers and then hiding? If the price of stopping this pointlessness is losing “pure” full-loot PVP I think it’s worth it. But eh… you lot have convinced me. I doubt protecting loot would solve the problem anyway.
This would certainly fix a lot of the current PVP problems. Body vaulting combined with server transfers with loot are just… a disease for PVP. The issue though is that they’re also very useful QoL features for people who want to play casually (or even just take a break). Removing them would make the game worse for single players and PVE, and busy PVPers. People shouldn’t be punished for not making a game their life. I’m sure that’s not good business.
I certainly wouldn’t object to those things being removed from PVP only, but Funcom doesn’t like to separate the modes. I had an argument with Ceronesthes on here before server transfers were implemented. He said it would destroy official PVP and I said it would be OK, because it was not really different from body vaulting. He was right.
In my experience, PVP attracts the best and the worst players. People who have courage, honour and generosity like ancient heroes. But also cowardly bullies. People who are funny, cunning and resourceful. But also arrogant uncaring people who see the other players as nothing more than NPCs, cattle or prey. At the moment it feels like there aren’t many of the good ones left, as the current exploits heavily reward what I see as an anti-social and boring playstyle.
I consider anyone posting about the game to be one of the good ones, as they obviously care and want it to be better. Any ideas? I saw someone on Reddit suggest that lootbags should instantly decay if a clan is offline to prevent offline raiding. I thought that was a pretty good idea.
This is why I put these ideas on a forum. So other people can have input.