Oh man don’t bring that one up to the new common core math folks 2+2=5 to them, it’s bloody insane
Killing another human over an opinion comes from lack of respect for their life, not their opinion. Only someone who values their opinion more than someone’s life will do that.
I don’t have to respect your specific opinion to respect your life. Hell, I can respect you as a person without respecting a particular opinion you hold, and vice versa, I might respect one specific opinion of yours without considering you to be someone worthy of my respect.
So let’s not conflate respect for someone with respect for an opinion. And while we’re at it, let’s not conflate tolerance with respect. Saying we should respect each other’s opinions so that we don’t end up killing each other is naive at best, and a thinly veiled coercion at worst.
…
Okay, screw it, I’ll go there.
There’s literally nothing scientific about what you just said, and I’m sorry if that sounds harsh, but I like math and I like science and it pіsses me off when people abuse them to try to make a philosophical point. 
Sure, 2 groups of 5 oranges and 2 groups of 4 apples makes up 10 oranges and 8 apples, but that has literally no relation to 2+2=4 whatsoever. What you said is “2+2=4 until 2x+2y=10o+8a for x=5o and y=4a”, which is just plain bad math. (It wouldn’t have been if you hadn’t used the word “until”, but then that wouldn’t have allowed you to make the point you wanted to.)
Seriously, truth doesn’t change. We can discover new truths without invalidating old ones, or we might realize that the old truth wasn’t really true because our understanding of the truth was imperfect.
That’s the whole point of the science, by the way, to continually expand and refine our understanding of the truth, not to change it. And that’s why I don’t like this whole “my truth and your truth” faux-respect trend. It leads to this whole “to make sure we hear both sides, here’s the virologist and a pillow salesman” idiocy we’re seeing in the world today.
People can earn and lose respect, and so can ideas and opinions. If you want your opinion to be respected, make it respectable.
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That’s not surprising since in almost none of your post do you ever show anyone who does not agree with you any. 
Case in point.
But you don’t know everyone on this forum nor do you know what ANY of them actually believe. So that’s an extremely empty statement to make.
His point was made rather clearly, I fail to see how you missed it. Unless you just chose to ignore it in order to have an excuse that is.
Again, an utter lack of respect shown to anyone with an opposing opinion.
No, you don’t. You do not EVER need to respect an opinion especially when it can be verified to be absolutely false. Hence the analogy of flat earth which was brought up. But I guess you still won’t get that one. But as @CodeMage you SHOULD respect the person regardless of their opinion. That is where you seem to have the disconnect.
Yeah, CodeMage already said that. 
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Why? Because we’re not allowed to decide who we respect? We must respect everyone, always? If that’s your point, I disagree.
I can earn someone’s respect and I can likewise lose it. There’s nothing arrogant or even controversial about that.
You kept insisting that we must respect every opinion and I provided you with an example of an opinion that deserves no respect.
For a person who insists that every opinion deserves respect, you’re very quick to shout and accuse people of arrogance. In this whole discussion, I haven’t actually disrespected you at any point. I’ve stated my disagreement and my arguments, patiently and in a civil manner. It’s not my fault that you’re taking it personally and ascribing some kind of arrogance to that.
You keep stating that, but you never explain why. Again, take the obvious example, even if it’s nothing you see on these forums, and tell me whether you would respect the opinion that the Earth is flat. And if you would respect that opinion, why?
I know people I respect. If one of them told me seriously and unironically that the Earth is flat, my respect for that person would make me ask them politely why they think so instead of laughing at them. If, on the other hand, I heard the same from a guy who used to be my manager and literally yell at everyone on my team, I would tell him I expected no better than utter ignorance from a person like him, because his prior actions made me lose all respect for him.
The word “respect” becomes meaningless and loses all value if we insist that everyone and everything deserves it and it can never be lost.
Dude, you have a chip on your shoulder. I have not treated you with any “superiority” or “arrogance”. Instead, I have done you the courtesy of engaging you in a conversation in which I have explained my own views. If that somehow offended you, that’s your problem, not mine.
Which is why I have been debating this with you, all this time. You keep conflating respect for an opinion with respect for a person. I respect you enough to talk to you. That doesn’t mean I have to respect that one particular opinion you have, the one that started this discussion about respect, the one where you say it’s a “good possibility” that someone who’s getting flagged too much is being targeted by a specific person who has a personal issue with them.
Again, not every person is worthy of respect, and not every opinion is worthy of respect. If you want me to believe that, you will have to convince me, among other things, that the ex-manager who literally yelled at my team so much that one co-worker took a leave of absence due to a nervous breakdown somehow deserves my respect despite that behavior.
I’ve already stated numerous times that I can respect you as a person without respecting one particular opinion of yours, and vice versa. You’ve ignored that distinction repeatedly, you’ve repeatedly dismissed my arguments as invalid without providing any counterarguments of yours, and then you accused me of behaving arrogantly.
So tell me, after extending you the respect of debating with you in good faith, only to be met with dismissal and accusations of arrogance, why should I keep respecting you, as a person? As a matter of fact, given your pretty consistent track record of starting a discussion with me, ignoring all of my arguments, directing personal attacks at me, and then declaring the discussion finished, why should I keep engaging in discussions with you?
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I see it the other way around. People need to be held accountable for what they flag so they don´t flag arbitrarily just to shut an unwanted opinion down under the psydonym of the offender rules. And I see absolutly no reason why a grown up responsible person should have a problem with standing to what he or she flages unless he/she knows that his/her own actions aren´t that nobel as he or she claims they are.
But with this forum, if you flag legit another player who is part of the OG gang, then you will eventually be bullied passive aggressively.
Besides, after 2 flags, the mods can unflag after 8nvestigating.
The flag wavers are the ones that derail topics and start arguments, in my experience. But they dont get their posts pulled. Can basicly say anything and be rude as they wish.
Psst, this thread is useless, only FC representation that will see it are the Mods of this forum. They behave poorly too at times. They actively troll, find no infringement of rules but just dont like what you have to say. They call it harrassment when you ask why they pulled your post. Then suspend you for asking which rule you broke…same trolls, different title.
It is certainly impossible to lose respect if you lose out of some stupid discussions in an insignificant game forum.
Respect is not something you earn, it is a simple given human right. Quote: “Human rights are the basic rights and freedoms that belong to every person in the world, from birth until death. … These basic rights are based on shared values like dignity, fairness, equality, respect and independence. These values are defined and protected by law”
I think the confusion is largely semantic, and may be exacerbated by the language barrier.
I respect everyone’s right to have an opinion, but I do not feel the need to respect said opinion if I find it abhorrent, or if it’s an opinion that directly contradicts the truth.
For the first example imagine a person who believes that all left handed people should be killed. I would not respect that opinion, and would directly oppose anyone trying to make that scenario a reality. Yes it’s silly that someone would hate people for being left handed, but there are people in the world who hate others for reasons just as silly
As for the second part, flat earth has already been brought up because it’s so extreme but some people actually legitimately believe it. I respect their right to believe it, but I do not respect the belief itself.
Unlike the first group though I would be respectful to them while disagreeing with them.
I don’t think this would happen to such an extreme level, but I could definitely see someone being influenced by knowing a person they like has flagged a post
Wow, I haven’t ever seen the actions you’re describing on this forum. Every time I’ve had a post flagged I’ve received a message telling me why it was flagged
Editing to add example of one of the messages I got
“Your post was flagged as off-topic the community feels it is not a good fit for the topic, as currently defined by the title and the first post.
This post was hidden due to flags from the community, so please consider how you might revise your post to reflect their feedback. You can edit your post after 10 minutes, and it will be automatically unhidden.
However, if the post is hidden by the community a second time, it will remain hidden until handled by staff.”
This is sent by the system so it’s automated, if you click your profile and then the envelope that’s where I get them
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No, not in my opinion, since the two are closely related to each other. People often tend to take public discussions personally when someone else’s point of view does not match their own. They feel all the more empowered when other people step in and support their point of view and defend it. That ofc doesn´t mean they are automatically right in what they are saying but it kinda forms a psychological band of mutual “respect” where people feel accepted and encouraged that they do. Its called pack (or group) behaviour. As soon as someone is accepted in a certain group he will adapt and fall in line no matter if he may have a different opionion of his own to some topics that are different to his “mates”. Otherwise he would loose the “respect” of his own group and gets excluded. Having this in mind you can say it is quit hard to have a real, undifferentiated and respectfull conversation with eachother. The question remains: Is the content of a social conversation still seen as really important do to the exchange of information purpose for most people or do people participate in conversations more for the thumbs up and likes stuff. Tell people (the masses) what they wanna hear and be the good friendly nice dude with 100 likes or try to be yourself and deal with the outcome that may not be that glorious.
I personally never had a problem with beeing the “bad guy/girl” since I am more of a loner anyways and I don´t care much about what people say or think about me. But I know that most people aren´t like me. Otherwise twitter and facebook wouldn´t have become that popular. But this said, you should be aware that every conversation, no matter if you are at work or in privat, is always directly and indirectly influenced by human behavior and a certain motivation. The flagging system is just another typ of “influencing tool”. And therefor it is predestined to be abused. And the more a person feels “disrespected” by someone the more the chance is rising it gets abused.
edit: english is also not my mainlanguage. One part of me feels kinda sad about the fact that I often don´t understand disscussion the way they where probably ment. On the other side, I don´t feel much offended by most posts, even the ones that clearly are toxic. I simply take it as is. If someone is angry about something or somebody he will have his reasons. If he don´t like me or my views be it. I am not giving in but I am also not really offended by what gets written in an online forum.
And yet, here we are, on an “insignificant game forum” having a philosophical discussion about the fundamental nature of respect and arguing whether it’s a basic human right or something that each of us feels towards someone else in a certain measure. I see no reason to be dismissive of that.
You can quote whatever you want, but until you actually engage one of my arguments with a counterargument, you’re just appealing to some authority.
If you haven read what I wrote about the abusive manager, go read it, and then come back and explain why I should respect that person. Or if you don’t want to read my crappy writing, let’s go to a more extreme example, and have someone explain why I should respect Kim Jong-un.
That is one of the most wonderful straw man arguments I’ve seen lately. What you were attacking in that argument is not respect, it’s conformism and peer pressure. Just because those can be detrimental to a discussion, that doesn’t lead to respect being a basic right that every person and every opinion and every idea must be accorded.
Look, I understand that English is not your main language, or @Palm522’s for that matter, but this is really not about the language. You both understand me well enough to reply to certain parts of what I wrote, yet you both simply ignore the rest. I fail to see how anyone can believe they’re having a “respectful” debate that way.
If you have a problem with me and my examples, then take @OctaviousWrex’s:
Unless someone can explain why I should respect the opinion that “all left-handed people should be killed” (excellent example) or why I should respect Kim Jong-un as a person, I don’t think I can change my mind on whether respect can be earned and lost.
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Re read through post. See how when someone innocently asks for a mechanic thatbthey think would be cool. 1/2 of the responses will be about the poster and not the post itself. Then come back to your conclusion this forum is not rampant with passive aggressive posters, who use volume to subdue innocent opinion posts.
I’m not sire I get what it is you’re referring too? Is there a particular thread you had in mind because I’d be happy yet check it out
I haven’t notice this pattern you’re mentioning, I see lots of posts about suggestions, but I’ve not seen this passive aggressive group think that seems to be implied
Some people get passive aggressive at times, hell some of us get downright active aggressive from time to time
I’ve been in more than one heated debate with fellow forum members and have not been flagged during those debates. Even when my hardheaded self was arguing the much less popular side of a debate.
The times I’ve been flagged were for being off topic, and I was totally off topic when it’s happened to me
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There is a point when an idea becomes so abhorrent as to remove any potential respect. I will never respect an idea that actively promotes hurting people I care about.
There can be no middle ground in an argument where one side believes the other doesn’t have the right to exist.
I’m not sure if I can be more clear on this without directly referencing real world politics, which is against the forum rules as I understand and specifically why I used anti left handers as my silly example rather than referencing an actual historical example
I agree it’s almost always best to try to respect everyone regardless of their ideals. As I mentioned in the flat earth example I may not respect their opinion, but I would do my best to be respectful of the person when arguing against it.
Respecting someone’s right to have an opinion and respecting their individual opinion are two different things though, they are neither mutually exclusive nor inclusive
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Fact: Noun. a thing that is known or proved to be true.
Perception is irrelevant, a fact is verifiable and provable. You cannot “perceive” a fact to be different simply because you chose to.
Neither. 
Exactly. There are just certain things that are so horrendous that they should never warrant respect.
It actually is a historical fact that people who were left handed were considered to be taboo and or even a sign of a “criminal mind”. Here is an article about the subject.
Bingo!
OK, I appreciate you clearing up your stance. You are not claiming that ALL view or opinions should be respected (such as things that would be considered human rights violations). Previously you made it sound as though you thought EVERY opinion or view should be respected outright.
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This “people have a right to post their opinions uninhibited” argument is turning into a Realism vs Anti-Realism debate quickly.
Maybe I am misunderstanding, but are you taking a Truth Pluralism position? If so, it is likely (correct me if not) that you and @CodeMage and @OctaviousWrex dont even agree fundamentally on what the “truth” is.
Furthermore, by joining a public forum there is an implied agreement that there is some objective truth to the subject matter that we as members are to debate and reach consensus on. To proclaim that all truths are equal and untouchable seems to me to fly in the face of our very presence here and strikes me purely as a means to garner some moral self aggrandizement. But maybe that is just my truth…
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I loved the films, I may have seen them hundreds of times, especially this music echoes in my head right now that I speak about them. Still I haven’t read the books, my selection of reading books was always more real life and classical, I am a boring person, I know. Persons however who readed the books of lord of the rings didn’t comment the movie so well 
. Some others comment it bad as @CodeMage, they expected more… I had a friend that was in love with wolverine of X-men, he didn’t like that in the films he was acting like a puppy (that’s what he said). For me Hugh was awesome. But… Whenever I see Hollywood efforts in ancient Greek stories I go really upset.
So I guess I can understand both sides… I guess
No, a fact and a truth are fundamentally different. A fact is something that is verifiable testable and proven. A truth however is a perception of reality.
As an example, there is an automobile accident and there are two witnesses. Both of them tell the police what they saw, neither of which tell the officers the same thing. Now, they are both telling the TRUTH based on their perception. But that does not make either of their stories to be FACT. That is why “eye witness” evidence is the least reliable source of evidence in court cases. It cannot be tested and verified, it is only a matter of perception no matter how truthful the person is being. A FACT however can be tested and verified and perception has absolutely no barring on it at all. You cannot perceive a fact to be anything other than what it is because it has been proven to be what it is.
That is correct, and that is why truth is irrelevant. Fact is not the same as truth as I already have shown.