Remove the Orochi Tower


#41

I was never crazy about the tower. However there are a lot of hidden story/lore Easter eggs dotted around in there if that’s your thing. It was a few hours of content, I play this game for the long haul so a few hours is really nothing to me personally but I can see it being a bit more of an issue for a player that plays very casually or doesn’t plan on doing anything beyond the story. But as others have stated where do you draw the line. There’s lots of places people would perhaps like to “skip” but the issues surrounding that is well laid out buy @Samera and really not worth there time for the few people that absolutely cannot bear to spend the few hours needed to get through it.

As for AEGIS I loved AEGIS, the concept was actually very good and could have been much better implemented. there were 2 primary issues;

1.) It put pauses in your combat (switching controllers) anyone here like overheating with elemental? Yeah didn’t think so. Imagine not being able to prevent that.

2.) It was exclusive to one area and obtainable buy a very bottle necked amount of content. Most people either couldn’t get in the groups that were able to easily grind it or simply wern’t endgame focused enough to want to care about it.


#42

Gotta say that I love the Tower in SWL, despite it being too easy, but that is not the point right now. I liked how the story finally felt as immersive and coherently spun as it was in TSW. I was slightly disappointed in the old game’s solution. I mean, I stand in front of that huge freaking tower, I get ready for the longest end-fight and then I skip soo many floors. That didn’t feel alright. Three floors and I’m through? Meh feeling.
If they would have done the climb all floors back in TSW, I would understand people saying it is a grind. It was hard and the corridors were full of AEGIS enemies. It would have simply taken a single, not overgeared character too long and it would have been frustrating maybe.

And yes, while I hated the endless grind with the AEGIS, I really miss it. Kaidan is a walk in the park now and feels even less threatening than CF. I liked the fact, that we had to further lose our humanity by implanting chips so we could keep up with the Orochi and filth bomb created monters as well as the supernatural things we had to face there. Stone me if you want, I want AEGIS back and I never thought I’d say that. But I know if it will be implemented in SWL, it won’t be much of a bother. Everything else got streamlined and so will AEGIS. *shrugs


#43

the Tower was awsome in TSW, its is far more easy now than in TSW

first change was in the assault of the tower, you do not need to kill the tank before fighting the tank comander.

Guess most ppl gave up cus they did not get the drones to explode at the right spot

Also the tower is different, we have combat floors, sabotage floors and invetigation floors.
You have tons of easter eggs, yo can see the arch from egypt in the tower for instance.
The fluff from the Management notes and Computer entrys make it worth reading all the stuff.
The Tower is not about combat and getting to the top most haste. Ist about connecting loose ends and Show you how evil or not Orochi might be.

Yes I can understand it is taxing, I played the tower first day it was out to finish it and it took 8H for me, it can be done faster but I took breaks and read the most entertaining entrys form notes and PC

from my point you Need to play the Assault Mission 2 times to get Archivement and to get side
also the way to penthouse cus of the Pacifist Archivo. Thats all rest you do once for each toon and you cant blame Funcome if you play so many toons :slight_smile:

If we get ever to the moon I would love to see a Mirror Tower on the moon.

To Aegis, a easy way to bring more challenge to TSW. But it set you back to bloody nooob if you enter kaidan.
downing Mobs with shields up took ages and I died often cus Regeneration was to fast.

This I am a SUPERHERO that can lay waste to entire armys with my left small toe is BORING.
If you want to see stuff like that watch MARVEL movies
I do like the idea to be a tactical nuke of Gaia but for god sake right now SWL is a no brainer and no fun at all.
Cus we dont die anymore, we dont have mobs on the normal map that we need a special build for.

What happened back in TSW, I needed to play the tank Mission to get Aegis 5 times to get all controlers, yes I did it before the nerv. Till than with one Controller I always feeled danger in kaidan, cus I could not kill a 750hp mob cus he had Aegis. THAT WAS AWSOME, threat, danger, thrill, fun all cus of AEGIS.
All ppl had the same issue, tons of pow in arms but no Chance to land a hit cus of Aegis, you needed to adapt to the change and adapted to the combat flow you needed to consider if fighting a Aegis map.
was it 5 sec Switch time at the beginning? or was it 3 sec? not sure anymore.
Well if you cant do stuff for 3 sec cus you change your aegis, better have a plan rdy how to survive that 3 sec.

Today most would use the FAN Gadget Switch aegis and keep fighting. But in TSW not all bulds had a nice Impair AOE so I do understand why alot ppl did just die from aegis Switch cus they Tailored their toon to FIRST STRIKE NUKE ALL, the worked well on all maps expect kaidan cus of Aegis and BAM I Need to adapt or perish, not all could do it and gave up frustrated cus the normal way to play mmorpg, DEAL THE HELL DMG AS MUCH AS FAST AS U CAN, did not work if you did not had the right AEGIS.

Somehow AEGIS brought all to the same lvl in Kaidan, a fresh start. Grind 5 quest with 3 days CD if no GM or Patron and then u can start playing Kaidan. 10.4 ppl died in kaidan cus they cold not manage Aegis Combat.

And those where fun, mob with 2 shields or even 3 woot that was something I needed to Focus on, gosh if you fight 2 Mobs with different Aegis types, so much fun not to die. Down shield of mob one to get leech heal back, Switch shield while moving to get less damage, impair if needed. Down second shield try to damage the first mob a bit before he gets shields back…that was entertaining.

I miss Aegis alot, far more better then 2 Greens one blue 2 blue one purple 2 purple one yellow 2 yellow one red…

Sad it is gone


#44

So I finally got out of this damn Tower, yay me, I beat the most boring thing that I’ve ever done in a MMO (and believe me, I played some very bad ones) :stuck_out_tongue:

This exactly, it’s the mandatory aspect of doing all the floors that compeltely kills the fun.
During the 1st floors, I thought “hey this is nice, I gotta explore this mythic tower that seems to play such an important role in the Secret World lore, let’s try to find every little bit of info I can” … after 5874 floors I was like “will this f***ing thing ever gonna end, I’ll Google and YouTube everything and steamroll as fast as I can without even thinking about what I’m doing” :astonished:

Hey, great idea, let’s bring back everything that made TSW fail miserably and provoked the relaunch as SWL !


#45

I am afraid this statement is not correct.
They did relaunch cus they did not made money anymore.
making issues took to long and did not brought the revenue they needed.

Yes Aegis did scare some ppl away but it is not the main reson they did Relaunch TSW as SWL.


#46

And why do you think they did not make money ?
Because there weren’t enough players.
And why do you think there weren’t enough players ?
You said it yourself :

Anyway, this isn’t a thread about that, but of course they’re not gonna bring back the things that made TSW fail in the first place :roll_eyes:


#47

yes it is not the place for it, we had post about that too I belive.

removing the tower will not solve anything.

And somehow the tower is a complete map for its own.
Like Kaidan, other side of wall Kaidan and Tower

feels like KM, SC and BM

we all need to pass BM to get to egypt, no one is complaining about that.
and you also need to do it with all toons, no one complains…

and imagine you also need to pass CF to get to Tokio, no complains either


#48

Even if (and that is a big if) the tower qualifies as a zone of its own, no other zone prior to it requires that you clear 100% of its missions before you’re allowed to progress.


#49

giphy

This is what going through the Tower in SWL felt like. No, it wasn’t enjoyable; and yes, I vastly prefer how it was handled in TSW.

Regarding to how it was broken up in TSW, those who enjoy the lore will seek it out.

And there is nothing in the Tower floors that is critical to understanding the main story of the game. Only the Penthouse encounter is critical. The rest is all detail and fluff. Interesting, world-building details, but still that – details and fluff.

Do not shove it down my throat. Do not railroad me into a monolithic, tedious, uncontrollable thing to say “Look, look! LOOK! STORY!” Just make your damn game FUN. And I will worry about searching for all the details of the story to satisfy my curiosity.


#50

I’ve played a ton of MMOs, too. Not one of them could keep me. Why? Because they are no brainers, grinders, everything RNG, kiddy feeling or simply not my setting (SciFi or too heavy on PvP) and everything is determined by your equipment and not skill.

Tower in SWL felt like I really had to work my way up and was a great experience, even though strangely easy to get through^^ If people don’t want story “forced” upon them (even before the final fight and for a long time end of game), I wonder why they’d even bother with SWL? And I can understand why someone who has played TSW and has seen it all would feel annoyed by how the tower is now a few levels longer. But that isn’t the case for everyone. Just my offtopic 2 cents.

Why TSW wasn’t a sucess wasn’t the towers fault. I lacked new content for too long and it required players to think. Most modern people I have encountered don’t want to think. They come home from work, they want quick fun, quick sucess and it must look all pretty.
In the old game I ran mission who certaily weren’t my level, but with tinkering with my passives and enemy stats and the correct abilities I really could make it far. Having no visible levels felt great. I still log in there to detox and I still love to play it. And my active subscription would switch to TSW at any time if we’d get new missions there.


#51

I guess I’m in the minority, I liked AEGIS (not the grind to 2.0, but the concept and using it), and I like the Tower. I don’t/didn’t find it boring as it explains much of the game as you go through. It really shouldn’t be done in one sitting unless you’re a real ■■■■■■■■■ - then again I don’t think any part of this game or any other should be completed in one sitting.

Honestly I don’t get the hurry thru the game mentality anyway as there’s soooo much endgame content - repeating everything you’ve done? Running dungeons/scenarios with increasing difficulty but the same dungeon?

I do agree though that FC should have a ‘get to max’ level type purchase for those that have been there way to many times and I’m surprised they don’t sell that for people that have a) a character thru SA or b) vet from TSW that completed the tower. I don’t think people new should have that option out the door as the story is the best part of the game. SWL isn’t the most alt friendly game anyway, I only have four down from eight in TSW.

Honestly I really like Kaidan but all the key runs in TSW, I rarely go there still, usually to help someone on a mission they can’t do or do the tower with them.

My biggest gripe was the gating between zones. I hate must get to level x to continue. The we’re keeping people from dying is b.s., IDK, exploring is a of high interest to me in games and locking it like this, I really dislike.


#52

I’m not enitrely sure you’re strictly speaking a minority. I keep getting the impression a lot of people liked the concept, but were put off by one or more aspects of the execution (the grind, the controller swapping and/or the forced/artificial complete wussification of experienced characters at the start of Kaidan).

Simply removing AEGIS as a mechanic and creating story/logic holes while turning the entire gear system into a grind that’d make TSW AEGIS blush was a… very Funcom… decision.

That actually made having to slog through the entire tower after the urgent assualt on it, to urgently get to the penthouse, even more unfun. Those tower missions also serve as a half-baked re-introduction of AEGIS (related missions in Kaidan are optional) and I have serious doubts that’ll make a lick of sense to those new players SWL was supposedly to bring in…


#53

well all that stayed after AEGIS did come, are not those that left the game cus of it…

after I saw kaidan without AEGIS I need to say I want it back… cus kaidan is boring now B.O.R.I.N.G. !!!

starts to shoot the smiley on the wall

compared to SWL, AEGIS grind was a cake walk

I feelt powerfull at 10.1
I feelt bored at IP 250


#54

[quote=“BombShelley, post:52, topic:25075”]
Simply removing AEGIS as a mechanic and creating story/logic holes while turning the entire gear system into a grind that’d make TSW AEGIS blush was a… very Funcom… decision.
[/quote]
That is so very true! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Honestly when I first went to Kaidan I thought it was terrible, as I didn’t understand it and didn’t have the controllers. But once I did, I liked it, especially NPCs with multiple shields. I didn’t mind flipping controllers and I didn’t use an addon. Once you had them set muscle memory worked fine for me.

As for the towers - I’d think it’s a disservice to completely remove them. But making some of it optional and maybe 3 or 6 floors required (FC loves RNG so RNG the floors we get!).

From a lore/story perspective, climbing a tower shouldn’t be see a couple of floors and you’re done. It should feel like you’re working to get to the top. Plus you get all the lore/story in each floor - references all the way back to Kingsmouth. The tower isn’t the thing I’d take out if I had the chance. (Jumping in CoM and part of the Bank Heist would be my pick!)


#55

No, don’t remove the Tower. Finally a proper climb, and not that random nonsense.


#56

I liked the idea of Aegis, but not the grind & lockout, and not that literally everything in Kaidan had an Aegis shield. It should’ve been used for just bosses and minibosses, and improved with main story progression. Though its purpose was to stretch Funcom’s thin resources even thinner, so people would grind more, which they did.

The tower is long and arduous, but needn’t be done mission after mission, as has been said already. Do what you can be bothered to do, then do something else. Come back feeling refreshed, and actually enjoy what you do instead of burning out.

Or do what I did, which was to get home after a long day at work, and did it all with a friend, as I got steadily drunker. By the Penthouse I was totally blotto, and redid the final floor solo when it came off cd to remember what I’d missed. It was a good night!


#57

Manufactories are the conclusion to Tokyo, and Funcom appears to be quite happy to take them away all the while boasting as to how they value good storytelling.


#58

I think that Funcom made a good job at making them relatively optional, I see them as interesting additions that provide additional depth, but nothing close to important.