Remove the Orochi Tower


#42

Gotta say that I love the Tower in SWL, despite it being too easy, but that is not the point right now. I liked how the story finally felt as immersive and coherently spun as it was in TSW. I was slightly disappointed in the old game’s solution. I mean, I stand in front of that huge freaking tower, I get ready for the longest end-fight and then I skip soo many floors. That didn’t feel alright. Three floors and I’m through? Meh feeling.
If they would have done the climb all floors back in TSW, I would understand people saying it is a grind. It was hard and the corridors were full of AEGIS enemies. It would have simply taken a single, not overgeared character too long and it would have been frustrating maybe.

And yes, while I hated the endless grind with the AEGIS, I really miss it. Kaidan is a walk in the park now and feels even less threatening than CF. I liked the fact, that we had to further lose our humanity by implanting chips so we could keep up with the Orochi and filth bomb created monters as well as the supernatural things we had to face there. Stone me if you want, I want AEGIS back and I never thought I’d say that. But I know if it will be implemented in SWL, it won’t be much of a bother. Everything else got streamlined and so will AEGIS. *shrugs


#44

So I finally got out of this damn Tower, yay me, I beat the most boring thing that I’ve ever done in a MMO (and believe me, I played some very bad ones) :stuck_out_tongue:

This exactly, it’s the mandatory aspect of doing all the floors that compeltely kills the fun.
During the 1st floors, I thought “hey this is nice, I gotta explore this mythic tower that seems to play such an important role in the Secret World lore, let’s try to find every little bit of info I can” … after 5874 floors I was like “will this f***ing thing ever gonna end, I’ll Google and YouTube everything and steamroll as fast as I can without even thinking about what I’m doing” :astonished:

Hey, great idea, let’s bring back everything that made TSW fail miserably and provoked the relaunch as SWL !


#46

And why do you think they did not make money ?
Because there weren’t enough players.
And why do you think there weren’t enough players ?
You said it yourself :

Anyway, this isn’t a thread about that, but of course they’re not gonna bring back the things that made TSW fail in the first place :roll_eyes:


#48

Even if (and that is a big if) the tower qualifies as a zone of its own, no other zone prior to it requires that you clear 100% of its missions before you’re allowed to progress.


#49

giphy

This is what going through the Tower in SWL felt like. No, it wasn’t enjoyable; and yes, I vastly prefer how it was handled in TSW.

Regarding to how it was broken up in TSW, those who enjoy the lore will seek it out.

And there is nothing in the Tower floors that is critical to understanding the main story of the game. Only the Penthouse encounter is critical. The rest is all detail and fluff. Interesting, world-building details, but still that – details and fluff.

Do not shove it down my throat. Do not railroad me into a monolithic, tedious, uncontrollable thing to say “Look, look! LOOK! STORY!” Just make your damn game FUN. And I will worry about searching for all the details of the story to satisfy my curiosity.


#50

I’ve played a ton of MMOs, too. Not one of them could keep me. Why? Because they are no brainers, grinders, everything RNG, kiddy feeling or simply not my setting (SciFi or too heavy on PvP) and everything is determined by your equipment and not skill.

Tower in SWL felt like I really had to work my way up and was a great experience, even though strangely easy to get through^^ If people don’t want story “forced” upon them (even before the final fight and for a long time end of game), I wonder why they’d even bother with SWL? And I can understand why someone who has played TSW and has seen it all would feel annoyed by how the tower is now a few levels longer. But that isn’t the case for everyone. Just my offtopic 2 cents.

Why TSW wasn’t a sucess wasn’t the towers fault. I lacked new content for too long and it required players to think. Most modern people I have encountered don’t want to think. They come home from work, they want quick fun, quick sucess and it must look all pretty.
In the old game I ran mission who certaily weren’t my level, but with tinkering with my passives and enemy stats and the correct abilities I really could make it far. Having no visible levels felt great. I still log in there to detox and I still love to play it. And my active subscription would switch to TSW at any time if we’d get new missions there.


#51

I guess I’m in the minority, I liked AEGIS (not the grind to 2.0, but the concept and using it), and I like the Tower. I don’t/didn’t find it boring as it explains much of the game as you go through. It really shouldn’t be done in one sitting unless you’re a real ■■■■■■■■■ - then again I don’t think any part of this game or any other should be completed in one sitting.

Honestly I don’t get the hurry thru the game mentality anyway as there’s soooo much endgame content - repeating everything you’ve done? Running dungeons/scenarios with increasing difficulty but the same dungeon?

I do agree though that FC should have a ‘get to max’ level type purchase for those that have been there way to many times and I’m surprised they don’t sell that for people that have a) a character thru SA or b) vet from TSW that completed the tower. I don’t think people new should have that option out the door as the story is the best part of the game. SWL isn’t the most alt friendly game anyway, I only have four down from eight in TSW.

Honestly I really like Kaidan but all the key runs in TSW, I rarely go there still, usually to help someone on a mission they can’t do or do the tower with them.

My biggest gripe was the gating between zones. I hate must get to level x to continue. The we’re keeping people from dying is b.s., IDK, exploring is a of high interest to me in games and locking it like this, I really dislike.


#52

I’m not enitrely sure you’re strictly speaking a minority. I keep getting the impression a lot of people liked the concept, but were put off by one or more aspects of the execution (the grind, the controller swapping and/or the forced/artificial complete wussification of experienced characters at the start of Kaidan).

Simply removing AEGIS as a mechanic and creating story/logic holes while turning the entire gear system into a grind that’d make TSW AEGIS blush was a… very Funcom… decision.

That actually made having to slog through the entire tower after the urgent assualt on it, to urgently get to the penthouse, even more unfun. Those tower missions also serve as a half-baked re-introduction of AEGIS (related missions in Kaidan are optional) and I have serious doubts that’ll make a lick of sense to those new players SWL was supposedly to bring in…


#54

[quote=“BombShelley, post:52, topic:25075”]
Simply removing AEGIS as a mechanic and creating story/logic holes while turning the entire gear system into a grind that’d make TSW AEGIS blush was a… very Funcom… decision.
[/quote]
That is so very true! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Honestly when I first went to Kaidan I thought it was terrible, as I didn’t understand it and didn’t have the controllers. But once I did, I liked it, especially NPCs with multiple shields. I didn’t mind flipping controllers and I didn’t use an addon. Once you had them set muscle memory worked fine for me.

As for the towers - I’d think it’s a disservice to completely remove them. But making some of it optional and maybe 3 or 6 floors required (FC loves RNG so RNG the floors we get!).

From a lore/story perspective, climbing a tower shouldn’t be see a couple of floors and you’re done. It should feel like you’re working to get to the top. Plus you get all the lore/story in each floor - references all the way back to Kingsmouth. The tower isn’t the thing I’d take out if I had the chance. (Jumping in CoM and part of the Bank Heist would be my pick!)


#55

No, don’t remove the Tower. Finally a proper climb, and not that random nonsense.


#56

I liked the idea of Aegis, but not the grind & lockout, and not that literally everything in Kaidan had an Aegis shield. It should’ve been used for just bosses and minibosses, and improved with main story progression. Though its purpose was to stretch Funcom’s thin resources even thinner, so people would grind more, which they did.

The tower is long and arduous, but needn’t be done mission after mission, as has been said already. Do what you can be bothered to do, then do something else. Come back feeling refreshed, and actually enjoy what you do instead of burning out.

Or do what I did, which was to get home after a long day at work, and did it all with a friend, as I got steadily drunker. By the Penthouse I was totally blotto, and redid the final floor solo when it came off cd to remember what I’d missed. It was a good night!


#57

Manufactories are the conclusion to Tokyo, and Funcom appears to be quite happy to take them away all the while boasting as to how they value good storytelling.


#58

I think that Funcom made a good job at making them relatively optional, I see them as interesting additions that provide additional depth, but nothing close to important.


#59

Aegis didn’t come out until how many years after TSW was out? The tower didn’t kill TSW. Most players that quit didn’t make it to scorched earth. Honestly, I think it was bad timing… TSW was released around the same time as guild wars 2 and SWTOR. There’s just a lot of competition in mmo(ish) land. TSW launched right right before free to play was the norm…

The difficulty kept me playing. The community kept me playing. Aegis was a great sink for skills. I’d love to have it back.


#60

The faction missions are coming back & this makes me hopeful that Manufactory will also come back some day.


#61

No worries, the AEGIS code is alive and well (Andy spawned a MFA boss #2 tank during the anniversary) so adding AEGIS to Kaidan again to deal with the new threat below the tower shouldn’t be a biggie.


#63

Does this count?


#64

No ty


#66

I’m always happy with options.
I’m just happy to get those missions back for the characters involved. I missed them.


#68

Haha, me filthy casual is nowhere close to that. I’m just not into dungeons, big competition or scenarios, my little time aside^^ Love difficult mission tthat make me rake my brain however and I don’t mind dying.

Glad to hear we get some of the old stuff back :slight_smile: No Aux weapons… yet? hope hope
I mean, if Andy gets a horse fist weapon (god that sounds soo wrong xD) I’d like a whip. Whipping people was fun. Want them to be fast like the wind? Giddy up!