Schroedinger's Purge - Why purges are broken

pc

#1

This is what I correlate from different reports of purges working or failing on official PvE servers (please let me know if this deviates):

If a purge selects a target outside of the render range of an online player at that moment in time, it cancels itself.

With 24 purges per tribe a day, most of those purges either target offline players, or online players who aren’t at the targeted location the moment the purge has selected it.

The purge works as Funcom has claimed on a technical level. But practically, doesn’t work, because the feature doesn’t get experienced by the players at all, due to it’s settings.


#2

Except it doesn’t cancel itself out.

I was venturing from my base near Bat Tower to an outpost I have near The Den. Along that river, on my route, there is a small base with a guy I’ve seen on a couple times. He doesn’t play very frequently as part of his base experienced decay the last time I saw him on and so I grabbed him some stone to help. He still hasn’t fully fixed his base so he has one section where there is still no wall. I can see his unconscious body through that missing section meaning he isn’t online.

As i was running past his base, I heard the sound of hyena. I thought to myself, WTF, hyena don’t spawn here. I went around his walls and saw about 8 hyena and 1 werehyena going ham on his walls until they noticed I was there.

His base, protected by me, got hit with about 6 waves of hyena/werehyena. All the while he wasn’t online.

And it wasn’t my purge as they were there before I got there. i got no notification of being purged. And my purge meter is still full. 3 weeks it’s been full with no purge in sight, yet offline guy got hit with one.

Official PvE server.


#3

When I go hunting those Komodos in the jungle for their volatile glands, there is a pair of them that always spawn in the same spot, opposite a croc and a bird. Everytime one would attack the corc, and the other would attack the bird. It happens everytime i get into render range, like clockwork.

It had me thinking that it works like it does on ARK, where NPC’s are in a state of superposition, until you see them. Then they spring into action. They are “spawned into your view” literally, and they start to do their thing at that moment.

You experiencing a purge in progress is interesting. I believe the purge did target the offline person, like I wrote. But I’m surprised it didn’t cancel itself. But I also surmise it’s because you were there to witness that.

The purge started but was in limbo… until you entered into render range. You might not have seen them pop into view cuz you were behind a canyon, but still in render distance… Then when you did get to witness it, it felt like it was already in progress.

See, if that purge happened independent of you being there, his base and his body would have been long gone, were purges not bugged in a way that mobs didn’t actually do damage to structures, no?

And here’s the thing… even if it WASN’T bugged… NPC’s can only damage things when being witnessed. They don’t actually exist when not observed. They are merely “registered”.

Edit: Furthermore, you said “6 waves”. usually Hyena purges last for 40 minutes, which equates to 20 waves. I speak out of first hand experience. My very first purge was Hyenas as well. This is further evidence that the purge seems to have started in superposition. The timer was running, but you arrived roughly 30 minutes into the purge.


#4

See, what you’re saying is that the purge, without someone near it, would just cancel itself out if there wasn’t a person there, right?

Why would my showing up half an hour into it then all of a sudden populate the enemies?

That being said I can’t rule out that they didn’t just populate in as I got close to his base, as I didn’t see them run up to his base…although with where he is in the river and how small his structure is unless they came from directly behind it, I would have saw them run to it.

So the game, in theory, could have just populated them on his walls because I got in render range or they were there all along. No way to know for sure.

I do agree on your example with the komodos. Similar for me up near Road of the Pilgrim to farm demon blood from the Living Magma. There’s Sabertooth that end up in very close proximity. And they won’t actually fight each other until they are in my render range. If I just ignore them and grab some obsidian and come back down, they’ll still be fighting when I come back. So yeah, nothing in this game actually happens, unless a player is within range to witness it.


#5

In effect, you are “activating” that which is registered as already being there, but dormant, because they aren’t being observed.

The system says “This base has been targeted for a purge. It is now in progress.” Because the player is there in render distance, albeit unconcious, the system still considers this valid and thus doesn’t cancel itself. But considering the player is actually offline, nothing is observed.

In comes you. An actual observer. The registered event happens, albeit continuing on it’s schedule, omitting the time when you weren’t there.

It’s like we (the system) knows that there is a cat inside Schroedingers box, but not wether it’s dead or alive, until a true osberver actually opens the box, in which case the cat continues on it’s schedule… instantly omitting several years and being instantly spawned as a irradiated carcass…


#6

I can only atest to that purges are able to damage buildings, and they are able to do that also outside of any spectators view.
Damage to both thralls and buildings have happened to bases I am not around at the moment of the purge.

Purges are thypicaly set to start if there is at least one person online, and then they can happen to any clan, and any base even if the victims are not online.

If the fightings are rendered/simulated, or just calculated when no one is around, I can not know, but looking at damages, I put my bet on that they are indeed simulated, as only reachable buildingparts are affected…

As for durations of different kinds of purges, that is a single setting on a server, and it has 30 min as standard, I think… that might be wrong, but all purges made equal in that setting.

I have experienced much shorter purges, but can not see a pattern in location or attackers, so I guess there is a random element, and that the maximum setting is just that… maximum…


#7

It can cancel itself, I’ve experienced this personally.

Generally, there seems to be two types of purges. A real purge and false purge. False purge is when you get a notification that you are being scouted. 10 minutes later, it declares to you that the first wave is coming… but then immediately, and I mean immediately, declares that the enemies had been defeated. My purge meter decreases, and despite being present, I do not see a single soul.

It seems to me that certain base construction conditions create a situation where the game can’t find a place to launch a purge from, or perhaps the issue is that the game notices that it cannot reach the target base from any angle and gives up. Something of a fail state.

In both cases, the game is going to report back to funcom that “Hey, a purge was had, and was defeated” so they think everything is good. Really, their purge metrics should also include things like damage done to player structures, and how many purge minions were killed. If they’re getting a defeated purge with 0 damage done, and 0 minions killed, they’d know right away they had a bug.


#8

This isn’t true in so far as being in render range isn’t relevant. I’ve had one of my fish trap builds, which I place upon sunken foundations, a dock, and oil presses(placable class item, makes it a base in funcom’s eyes.) attract a purge.

Showing up when I felt like it to defend it, the NPCs were spread out across the structure, whacking it. Considering purge monsters show up and move in on a target in clusters, the state I found them in when I came to kill them doesn’t match up with that.

More than likely the game just loads up the cell and starts simulating it with a dummy player.


#9

Purges were working fine without any issues whatsoever until this last patch. I have been on servers where they just plain don’t work but that is because of the land claim setting being changed lower than vanilla or they are using mods that’s decrease or plain ignore the land claim radius’. The fake purges as your calling them is because the mobs spawn just out of render range of whatever structure is being purged. If they are unable to spawn due to the spawn point being blocked by someone elses land claim or something like lava in the volcano or water since they cant swim or even a shelf in the turrain then they are quickly defeated. Since this last patch i have had to shut down the server completely because the settings are not working. even if you unflag the enable purge button and set the minimum number of players to trigger to way over what could possibly even log in the purges still continue and i’ve lost 2 bases to offline purge damage as listed in the event logs. the only way to currently turn them off unless your lucky enough to be on a server where the land claim radius is less than 1.0 and there not working is to shut the server down completely. They are also still spawning inside of bases and breaking all the boxes and workbenches if you are unlucky enough to have built on top of a naturally occurring shelf off of the ground despite the fact that they say this was fixed it definitely was not fixed. Mine is a private dedicated non modded server with all vanilla settings so it’s identical to any official pve server so my post was more letting you know that as things are at the moment be glad there not working. lol


#10

I had a bone dragon eat my base while I was offline and on the other side of the map :joy:


#11

So after going back to that base where I happened upon a purge, they were definitely attacking the base while I wasn’t there. There were sections of wall down to 100-1000 HP.

Nothing attacked the base for long while I was in the vicinity as I was just killing the hyenas.

I will say, I don’t think they can damage shrines. As in every wave at least a couple hyenas beelined the Shrine of Mitra the guy had and attacked it but it still had 300k of 300k HP.

There is another base in the general vicinity of this base and my own…another player I haven’t seen on in a while. He had wall sections missing and using my repair hammer I could see that other pieces of structure had extensive damage. His base is now down to about 40 hours of decay timer left. His unconscious body, without his gamertag above it, is laying on the ground with what would have been the inside of his base, it’s not really inside anymore lol

These two instances lead me to believe, as well as the comment above me, that purges can and do happen to people offline. And they do damage structures of offline players.

Which is unlike the rendering instances of enemies attacking each other that I’ve witnessed. The Sabertooth vs Living Magma is a prime example where if I’m out of render range, the fight must just pause because there’s no way that fight would be going on for over 5 minutes.


#12

HI GUYS!

Something happened to me today which made me re-evaluate all that I’ve written…

Frost giants and saber cats attacked my wheel of pain at the Well of Skelos!
I KID YOU NOT! FROST GIANTS O_o AT THE VOLCANO o_O

So I went to check the damage cuz my log said a bunch of saber cats and frost giants killed a lot of my foundations.

What I saw was a swathe of foundations missing leading straight to the wheel of pain. The wheel of pain was gone, but everything else was fine.

So I wondered what gives? Well… this wheel of pain platform was built over lava. So the attack force must have lava’d themselves out. But that’s just a guess…

The point is offline purges do happen and can damage your structures.

O_O;;

The Purges seem to really like Wheel of Pains tho! Cuz I have a maproom right next to the wheel and it is fine. Completely untouched.


#13

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