Thankyou Funcom for the New Rule Changes!

In the name of fairness, @StacieMeier asks a valid question. What exactly constitutes “bad language”? Conan Exiles has an international community, and even though we use English as our lingua franca, it doesn’t remove the cultural differences in communication. This is true even between countries where English is a native language. Some expressions that may be totally okay, neutral and inoffensive in e.g. UK may be considered “bad language” in the US, and vice versa.

And non-native English-speakers may not even be aware of these differences. They may use an expression they heard from a British friend and get confused when an American person is upset by what they said. You know, there are still people who are horrified by the expression “this sucks”.

Obviously, threats towards other players or offensive expressions directed at another are cases that should not be tolerated. Everyone deserves a safe gaming environment. But when discussing “bad language” people too often focus on trivial matters such as how many asterisks do you need to include in a four-letter word so it becomes acceptable. Context and intent are what matter, not the combinations of letters used. Hearing a random passer-by on the street using a vulgar word is probably not going to ruin anyone’s life, whereas insults or threats directed at you can cause lifelong traumas, regardless of whether any actual swearwords were used or not.

That’s what makes banning or punishing “bad language” such a difficult topic.

Let me be clear: I don’t block anybody on any social platform. I program, and people argue about it and other programmers. It’s part of the system.

Tip of the iceberg. Please stop making us feel stupid by comparing us to “common sense”. There are experts here. And, there are reasons people are hesitant about the “climate” here.

Awesome, so you know exactly how to deal people that could be called toxic, or use bad language. You have your way, I have mine, others have theirs.

Uh…yeah I didn’t do that…but I curious as to who you think the “experts” are on the topic at hand.

Potentially yes, words can be the first step to actions…but its never a guarantee, and since we are talking about trash talking/ language in a game and not the internet in general, there is truly little action that can be done by a fellow gamer to another. Aside from trolling in game, language, PVP’ing, raiding, etc…what other actions can happen? Can you give me some examples?

Again, Im not promoting this behavior at all, but you are kind of wrong in your last statement. The internet IS a free zone, unless you live in China…and yes you can do whatever you want on it. Funcoms forums, and inside their game is a different matter, where you DO NOT have free reign to do whatever (outside actual game mechanics).

False and true at the same time. True that you can do what yo want, false if ou think actions don;t have consequences. And that is where you are mistaken freedom of speech with no repsonsibility. All funcom has done has made a statement that if you feel something has crossed a line, to report it. If they agree, they will punish/reprimand the offender. No one said every report will be agreed with. The examples you have given are ones i would not see Funcom taking action on. And some people get on multiplayer games to socialize. And having to comb thru juvenile behavior to do so is annoying. Having to do it because someone is only doing it to be toxic should be addressed. And again, the person using the trigger word is doing it for attention (of any kind). but ironically they act like “poor me” when they get it and don’t like what it is.

Also, you keep calling it trash talking. I have balled on many a basket ball court, and trash talking is not what this is by far. And if that is how you trash talk, well, lets just say your talk game is weak and simple minded.

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She did ask a valid question, but as you said, context matters. We’re not idly speculating on generic topics here, we’re talking about Funcom’s new rules. Those rules are currently being criticized by people who will use every rhetorical trick in the book to spread FUD about them.

For example, the whole thing about “bad language” is a colossal red herring. There is literally no mention of “bad language” in the rules. This is the part that’s under attack and I’m starting to wonder if people are actually reading it:

It’s chock-full of very specific adjectives: “offensive and defamatory” in conjunction with “racial, sexual, hateful, illicit”.

The thing that I keep vehemently objecting to is the notion that Funcom should drop this part of rules – a part that was clearly established to protect people from serious verbal harassment – because it’s somehow “not good for the game”.

What’s not good for the game is allowing all of its metaphorical broken windows to stay like that. I’ve seen plenty of toxic behavior on official servers and it happens because there are no consequences. Yes, exploiting and hacking are the most egregious forms, but verbal harassment can grow to be serious and very damaging for the community.

And this is especially true for PVE(-C) servers, where the community is paramount. That’s part of this discussion, too:

Gameplay in technical sense? No. Gameplay in the sense of what your in-game experience is? Very much. Ask anyone who doesn’t play exclusively PVP.


So yeah, everything you said in your post is true and I agree with it, but it’s pretty tangential, just like @StacieMeier’s question.

It’s not like Funcom said “you can’t use bad language or we’ll come ban you”. They established specific rules against serious verbal harassment and further specified that all reports of rule-breaking – for any of the rules, which I imagine includes verbal harassment – are to have “irrefutable, veridic proof and evidence to back up your report”.

Considering that the FUD about this part of the rules started in the message 7 of this thread and we’re up to almost a 100 now, I think you can see why my patience for anything that seems to support this demagoguery is wearing thin.

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I agree. Thank you Funcom!

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Ahem.

“I do it like this and anyone who doesn’t is wrong.” That’s why I say you keep making it about you. And you do that in almost every single post on this topic.

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I do get a kick when people say “freedom of speech, but wait, there is responsibility/repercussions/penalties”. If there is a penalty, or some responsibility that comes from it, it is not FREE speech. Yes, there is times when there needs to be a reaction to speech, when that speech calls harm upon someone (greatest examples is how free speech is in the US, we all know it, Im not going through it). People should celebrate free speech, because there is many other countries that don’t have it, including Canada where Im from, and yes, I wish we did have it.

Back to the topic at hand though…I think we agree on this more then what we actually see. AT no point did I say Funcom will act and ban every single report that comes in. I have said this will lead to an increase in reports, since anyone can come up with a reason to be offended. Yes <---- that is 100% true, no one can dispute that. I have said that Funcom even acknowledges there is in game mechanics to deal with trolls, those using bad language and or offensive language (and yes, I do lump “trash talking” in with that, because if you have ever seen heated battles and wars, SOME people - not all - will use offensive language in their trash talking.) So, I roll all of that together in the same context, anything people type in chat, say over voice or put on signs - call it bad language, trolling, griefing, trash talking…I refer to the same thing.

My point here again, which Stacie brings up as well, who determines what is ultimately report worthy (Correct, Funcom, not what I mean) “bad language”. What one culture maybe deems ok, another might not. What I find offensive, you may not. It could very well be within Funcoms stated “human decency” by your standards, but maybe not mine. All Funcom has said is “theres the line over there, cross it, you can be banned”

Just like how the supreme courts in the US have said that yelling fire in a crowded theater is not free speech, and can be punishable, all the rest goes. If you wish to stand on a corner with a sign that reads your point of view, you can. I can find that offensive, but I cant do anything about it, but have a discussion. So where is Funcoms line? Human decency is not a line, since there is a vast array of vocabulary that doesn’t cross the line, but offends people.

Ok, Ill rephrase that since you are merely trolling me and adding nothing to the conversation besides insults at me.

“Who in their right mind would sit there and willingly engage themselves in getting trash talked, or paying attention to someone who is being indecent/rude/ etc etc etc, using foul language when Funcom has in game provisions to block and mute said people. That person does themselves no good to not put the effort in to use in mechanics to block out negative things”

Better?

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love you @Nemesis

Bad language is the short version of …

……because bad/foul language is exactly what the second quote is.

And see, youre still missing it "

….heres a closer look…

Like I said, if a person finds another persons comments offensive, it qualifies. It doesn’t have to fall under any other category, but Funcom has opened the doors to be flooded with reports of people being offended.

The rules were fine the way they were, Funcom had in game mechanics to deal with language, and on PVP servers, there is ways to deal with spam/blocking/ etc, and all the other stuff.

I do agree that on PVE, that’s where their special consideration needs to be to prevent spamming on those servers, that’s no different then undermeshers and exploiters on PVP. Deal with that.

The rest? Mute. No need to flood Funcom with reports one person may find offencive, but may in fact not be.

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@WhatMightHaveBeen, did someone hack your account, you are giving too much love :smiley:

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LOL.
Sometimes all you can do is love someone to help them thru their issues.

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Agreed, the changes are very appretiated.

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Figured from the start that people are only trolling, namecalling and gunning for the asura tag instead of having a discussion.

I want a asura tag

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most of us just gave up trying to have a discussion with you :wink:

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No, not better. It’s still “I’m not affected by words so everyone else has to be like me”. You can rephrase it any way you want, but as long as the essence is “anyone who doesn’t do what I do is wrong”, it’s still going to be about how your way is the only right way. :man_shrugging:

If it worked the way you described it, I could:

  1. report you for not using the apostrophe in the word “person’s”
  2. say that it’s offensive to me
    and
  3. get you banned

But it doesn’t work like that. That’s just you, pushing your slippery slope argument up the hill of “we ain’t fooled by fallacies” :wink:

Yeah, that’s another argument you’ve been pushing all this time. This idea that Funcom will be “flooded” and, I guess, incapable of dealing with it. And I suppose that because Funcom is totally incapable of dealing with it, that’s why we need to get rid of that part of the rules, right?

You might have a point there. It’s not like Funcom could see that they’re receiving a disproportionate amount of spurious reports and put up another message that says something along the lines “don’t abuse the reporting system” with an explanation. And it’s not like they have the power to put that message somewhere where everyone can see it, like when they log into a server. And to even imagine that, if people keep abusing the reporting system despite that, they could give the report abusers a slap on the wrist in the form of a 1 day ban or something like that, so the word spreads? Now that’s preposterous! You’re totally right, we should get rid of these unreasonable rules that Funcom won’t have any chance of dealing with…

There’s a point where “come debate me bro” stops being taken seriously. It’s different for every discussion and for every participant in it. I don’t know about others, but for me it was when I realized that you’re doing a textbook motte-and-bailey argument. The only reasons I keep engaging is because:

  1. There are times when it looks like you can drag others down the same path.
  2. Sometimes I’m too distracted to focus on important stuff in real life, so I kill time by arguing in the most pointless online discussion I can find :stuck_out_tongue:
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So, you go from saying “quit making this about you” to this now? There are many ways to deal with the situation being discussed: quit the server, mute and ignore, use Funcoms already in game mechanics.

You can put I, me, you, random person in as the subject and its still the same - deal with it the same way, I just don’t understand how you cant see that. At no point did I say if they didn’t do what I do, they are wrong, you are making things up and shoving words in my mouth. I told how I deal with these issues, and that there is in game mechanics already in game…which was promoted by Funcom to use. Now, with the changes, and the rewording of the rules (which didn’t need to be done on the language) it will cause more reports to come in, most of which if not all, will be ignored. That’s what I said.

Ahhh, but YES IT CAN. You CAN report me for that, and low and behold, Funcom gets another waste of time report. The ban wouldn’t happen (in this case) but someone took time out of their day to read that. Remember them saying they don’t have time to admin their servers because there is 1000’s of them? You think they will read the increased amount of reports? Which seems like a better way to spend time to ACTUALLY IMPROVE THE GAME.

Once again, you are making things up and putting words in my mouth. I said they will get more reports, I never said they are incapable of dealing with it, or making their call on those reports. Let me state it again, since you just cant grasp it - There is in game mechanics to deal with language, and there is no need to report every word that triggers you!

I will agree though, that abuse of the new changes may lead to additional warnings/repercussions due to false reports/abusing the reporting system. How much do you want to bet that scenario will happen 100x more often when reporting someones foul language vs a clan that is exploiting or undermeshing/cheating etc?

I missed the part where I said to remove the rules…I said, it was an unnecessary change that will not improve anything…heck why am I just repeating myself after every time I have to quote you being wrong?

THANK YOU for admitting you are not contributing to the actual discussion, but rather are trolling…which, if Im not mistaken is against the forum rules. But, Ill leave it at that and ask that @Ignasis close this thread since it is no longer worth talking with trolls.